Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for?

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***
You are not logged in. [Login] Main Index · Search · Active Topics
New user · Who's Online · FAQ · Calendar

Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | >> (show all)
375RugerNo1
.275 member


Reged: 18/12/07
Posts: 96
Loc: VA, USA
Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for?
      #107788 - 21/06/08 04:47 AM

So the rules of the game are-
A-Pick any one .416 cal cartridge

B-State why you would pick this cartridge over the others.
-brass supply, available power, feeding issues, shorter barrel vs. longer barrel etc.

C-What type of gun would you purchase or chamber it in. Obviously my preference would be a Ruger No. 1. But don’t let that affect your choices.


Let me know what your thoughts are!
Pat

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Schamankungulo
.300 member


Reged: 21/04/07
Posts: 115
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: 375RugerNo1]
      #107795 - 21/06/08 07:45 AM

Too easy ...

A) Taylor

B) Brass is readily available , it will do anything the others will do except the webby or a hot loaded Rigby .. But you dont need the extra oompphh , 2400 with a 400 grain boolit is a solid performer ..

I'll always have a soft spot for the Taylor , I was fortunate to have one of the first dozen or so built ..

C)

1)M98

2)CZ550

21.5"-22" Douglas No.5 contour

even tho' I hate plastic , probably one of McBros stocks

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
375RugerNo1
.275 member


Reged: 18/12/07
Posts: 96
Loc: VA, USA
Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Schamankungulo]
      #107825 - 21/06/08 03:08 PM

Ha I'd have to agree on the "oompphh" part pretty zippy!!

Pat

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JabaliHunter
.400 member


Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: 375RugerNo1]
      #107837 - 21/06/08 11:03 PM

I'd go with the Taylor on a M98 by Hartmann & Weiss !! But then again, seeing as 'rules are meant to be broken' I'd go with a .425 express!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Will
.333 member


Reged: 04/02/03
Posts: 303
Loc: Kansas
Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Schamankungulo]
      #107838 - 21/06/08 11:12 PM

Schamankungulo,

Here it is.




416 Taylor, CZ 550, 22" Douglas custom profile, McMillan stock, 7.5 lbs.

--------------------
_________________________________________________
Bill Stewart

Once you have been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
pinotguy
.275 member


Reged: 03/02/07
Posts: 57
Loc: CO
Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Will]
      #107840 - 22/06/08 12:10 AM

Here's my choice:

A) I'd pick the 10.57 Meteor. This is the full-sized Lazzeroni .416.

B) While I am generally NOT a fan of needlessly over-powered cartridges, this is one that I've always been enamored with. I know it's proprietary and that makes brass more difficult to locate. Another important reason for me choosing this specific chambering is that it is not belted, something I definitely prefer.

C) I would go with a big Mauser 98 action - Prechtl, Recknagel, Dumoulin, etc. and a 24" bbl. It would definitely be a wood (English Walnut) and blued gun.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States
Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: pinotguy]
      #107844 - 22/06/08 12:55 AM

Not even a question in my mind.
Taylor!
The original 416 Rigby ballistics from about 90 years ago were perfectly good. The Taylor gives us the same bullets (or better) at the same velocity.
More velocity is not an advantage that I can see. The Taylor can be made to very nice standards on a M-98 Mauser, and it holds 3 in the mage with ease.
The rifles don't have the drop belly, which is something many love to look at, but I for one, like carrying the standard size mauser and mag much better than I do my larger rifles. Brass is cheap
Bullets are plentiful
The shell used cast bullets well.
It's cheap to shoot (and therefore practice with)
It does everything I would ever want or expect of a 416, and I have made much nicer rifles for a give budget with the Taylor than I can with larger and more expensive actions. If a man has a given budget, he gets nicer wood, more of the gunsmiths art, and more ammo for that budget with a Taylor.
If Ruger comes out with a "416 Ruger" I assume it would fill the bill as well, but as of this moment, I'd vote for the Taylor without any hesitation

Edited by szihn (22/06/08 01:05 AM)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Bramble
.375 member


Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: szihn]
      #107857 - 22/06/08 04:13 AM

Yes the Taylor for all the reasons Szihn listed above.

But on the rules to be broken theme, my favourite .416 would be a .404 Jeffery.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
88MauSporter
.375 member


Reged: 06/06/07
Posts: 530
Loc: Alaska / Texas
Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Bramble]
      #107873 - 22/06/08 07:05 AM

Ditto the .404 Jeff.

--------------------
"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3579
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: 88MauSporter]
      #107886 - 22/06/08 11:13 AM

Taylor:
for all the reasons listed above, and the fact that I've owned one for a couple of decades and killed a lot of big game with it. It's a no-fuss perfect performer on bull buffalo.

M98 action of course, and .338 cases necked up, not .458s necked down. Almost unlimited case life if velocity is kept modest at 2300fps or slightly below.

410gr Woodleigh 'Weldcore' RNSN on buff and big boar, 400gr Taipans for the rest!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bigmaxx
.375 member


Reged: 13/06/07
Posts: 660
Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.
Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Marrakai]
      #107892 - 22/06/08 01:25 PM

I would try to wait and see when the new .416 ruger materializes. It will likely be a .30-06 length case based on the .375 ruger. If its anywhere near as impressive as the .375 ruger it should be a contender.

--------------------
One day at a time...

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
375RugerNo1
.275 member


Reged: 18/12/07
Posts: 96
Loc: VA, USA
Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: bigmaxx]
      #107898 - 22/06/08 02:23 PM

Wow, I'm going to have to check into the .416 Taylor!! I did not foresee this sort of response to that particular cartridge!!!

Pat

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Schamankungulo
.300 member


Reged: 21/04/07
Posts: 115
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: 375RugerNo1]
      #107908 - 22/06/08 10:24 PM

Yes Will you rubbed it in at the other site , now you rub it in here ..

However since you refused my offer to trade the CZ Lott back for the litl beastie above , I'll keep the Lott ..

In a few months you'll want to sell this one too !!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26943
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Schamankungulo]
      #107912 - 23/06/08 01:56 AM

I-too would pick the Taylor. Suitable for any game I'd hunt, anywhere.
: Brass is easy - any belted mag brass will do as long as it's 2.5" or longer.
: Easy loading, misery on powder for it's power and performance. Matches old-time Rigby ballistics which work.
: M98 Mauser bolt gun modified to close on chambered round. 22" barrel. Express sights with option to mount 2X scope. More is not necessary as I've used 2X on a variety of rifles for big game for years. Easy accuracy to 300 meters, which is further than I'll shoot at large game.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: 375RugerNo1]
      #107914 - 23/06/08 02:17 AM

No problem answering this one. I had my own wildcat .416 before the Taylor came out. I simply opened up the .300 Winchester Magnum case to .416 and had a P-14 Enfield barrelled to fit. It will do anything the Taylor will do and a tiny bit more. Easy brass availability, no problem duplicating .416 Rigby ballistics. I have a picture of it around somewhere I can forward to Dale to post. Very satisfying to shoot.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: xausa]
      #107922 - 23/06/08 04:20 AM

I have no experience with the Taylor--however it sounds like an awesome cartridge. The .416 I do have quite a bit of experience with is the .416 Remington..so I am going against the grain on this one..but..I have used now on 4 hunts in Africa--have shot everything with it from steinbuck to buffalo, lion and elephant--with NO problems in any way shape or form..Actually have 2 guns in that caliber and might do a 3rd..

As to the high pressure problems I read on this site or mentioned occasionally elsewhere..have never experienced that as well and have hunted in weather up to 105 degree F...so not buying that argument either..

I guess what I found really interesting was that 3 of the 6 PH's I visited with in Zim just this year where shooting the .416 Remington...and as a backup at that...One PH in particular who does a lot of elephant hunting in both Zim and Botswana told me, personally he likes a cartridge at 2300 fps or a bit more for elephant..especially in Botswana,,,where genetically they are quite a bit larger than in Zim..or so he told me..Another PH who also uses one..used it for hippo anc croc as it was loaded in a Rem action and stated it was the most accurate gun in camp..so counting him..actually 4 of the 6 where using it..However all 3 PH's using the .416 Rem as their main rifle stated they used it for the same reasons mentioned in the Taylor..easy to reload, easy to find or make brass for and devastating effect on game..

Anxiously waiting for the .416 Ruger to show up..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (23/06/08 04:25 AM)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Will
.333 member


Reged: 04/02/03
Posts: 303
Loc: Kansas
Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Ripp]
      #108030 - 24/06/08 06:38 PM

The only reason that I could see to use the Taylor was it could save a bit of rifle weight by going with a smaller action, in my case the CZ 550 vs. the CZ 550 Magnum.

Yeah, the internet can be a source of all kinds of bad info, such as in the case of the 416 Rem. Mag. Have used it a lot in Africa and nary a problem. It feeds slick and has enough power for 99% of DG situations. And like you say, almost every PH and their dog is using one.

The other nice thing about the CZ 416 RM conversion is that it holds 5 down and 1 up. It weighs 8.9 lbs.



I had some drop floorplates made for my 416 Taylor so it holds 4 down. Almost as good as 5!



--------------------
_________________________________________________
Bill Stewart

Once you have been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Paul
.400 member


Reged: 28/08/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Will]
      #108031 - 24/06/08 06:54 PM

Sorry to vary the 'game' rules but does anyone have an opinion about the 500/.416 as chambered in the Heym double. What are the ballistics? Does anyone load it commercially?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
shinz
.300 member


Reged: 11/05/08
Posts: 135
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Paul]
      #108037 - 24/06/08 09:00 PM

Norma are loading it in their African PH series of cartridges by the look of their latest catalogue, loading 450 gr Woodleighs, both soft & solid at 2100 fps, 4408 ft-lbs. I think it is also on their website as a PDF, I've got a paper catalogue to drool over.
Steve.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Naren
.224 member


Reged: 05/04/08
Posts: 23
Loc: Somewhere
Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: shinz]
      #108076 - 25/06/08 05:14 AM

A - 416 Weatherby Magnum

B - Brass supply, killing power - velocity really makes all the difference (with premium bullets), you have to see it to belive - thats my experience. Much more destroyed tissue, much more penetration.

C - Mauser M98 only

As for the Norma PH ammo mentioned above - don`t know about the 500/416 NE but my friend bought 2 boxes of 458 Lott. 500 grain Woodleigh Weldcore and FMJ to test that ammo. It was crap. Seriously underloaded. It chronographed on averange between 1995 - 2010 f.p.s. from 21 inch barrel. I whould`nt shot an elephant with that. Now way. And many african PH have their 458 lott barrels cut to 20-21 inch. I don`t think they whould stop an elephant charge with this ammo if the shoting angle was less than perfect - dead PH...
Not that I am all into the oommpphh, but it is realy necessary... Don`t buy Norma PH ammo... and specially at that crazy price...

As for the 500/416NE - Wolfgang Romey loades this caliber for Krieghoff - balistics: Woodleigh 410 gr. Softpoint and FMJ. Velocity 2330 fps from a 25.5 inch barrel.

Edited by Naren (25/06/08 08:01 AM)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
shinz
.300 member


Reged: 11/05/08
Posts: 135
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Naren]
      #108081 - 25/06/08 07:37 AM

I'm not sticking up for Norma, but ave. 2000 fps from a 21 inch barrel is probably very close to 2100 in a 24" barrel which is very likely what the load was chronographed in, their catalogue doesn't state this. As you say, why you'd want to fork out Norma's prices for their PH stuff is beyond me, I would think it would be no great trouble to load a 458 Lott to 2150-2200 from a 21" barrel with easy pressures. Their load for the 416/500 is for the 450 gr bullets, not sure what that would do for regulation, one would presume they've checked that in a Kreighoff to be sure.
Steve.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Naren
.224 member


Reged: 05/04/08
Posts: 23
Loc: Somewhere
Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: shinz]
      #108082 - 25/06/08 08:05 AM

Well that is what I am trying to say - that ammo is seriosuly underloaded. I could reload a 458 lott and get 2200 fps easy with 21 inch barrel. For the money they(Norma) could sell something like a Hornady Heavy Magnum load like a 500 grain Woodleigh at 2400 fps with low pressure... They commercially produce powders so it shouldn`t be a problem for them to blend some super propellant... Especially they have lots of experience in powder industry...
But now they choose to sell underloaded ammo for a huge amount of money just because Kevin Robertson is on the box...
Geez it is just too weak for dangerous game... and costs a whole bag of money.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
dale
.333 member


Reged: 28/02/06
Posts: 341
Loc: logan W.V.
Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Naren]
      #108083 - 25/06/08 08:45 AM

Xausa's photos:

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
shinz
.300 member


Reged: 11/05/08
Posts: 135
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Naren]
      #108120 - 25/06/08 01:55 PM

I've not stated my preference, which would be for a 416 Taylor as Schamankungulo stated & Will so obligingly illustrated for exactly the reasons given. I've had a 416 Rigby on a ZKK602 action & felt it was "enough gun", if Naren fells the need for more a 416 Rigby is a more practical alternative to a 416 Wby, it is possible to load the Rigby to Wby pressures & velocity or all but, after all, what is the Wby case but a slightly improved belted Rigby case, my first Rigby cases were 378 Wby cases with the belt turned off & run thru a custom Peter Davenport full length die with a tapered expander. Although I've not compared them, I'd wager the Rigby cases will feed smoother than the Wby cases or with less work & I seriously doubt that Wby brass is any easier to get than Rigby brass nowadays, at least in my neck of the woods, still whatever floats yer kilt STS Its all part of what makes it so much fun & I'm the first to admit I'm probably scared to pull the trigger on full house Wby loads.
Will, seeing as Norma so under load their PH rounds or so it seems, what would you consider a reasonable aim for the 450gr Woodleigh in a 416 Rem & is the Double Tap ammo loading of the same bullet in 416 Taylor at 2250fps likely to be realistic or a bit OTT?
Steve

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JabaliHunter
.400 member


Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Naren]
      #108146 - 25/06/08 07:01 PM

Quote:

Geez it is just too weak for dangerous game...


110 years of experience would seem to suggest otherwise

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | >> (show all)


Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Extra information
1 registered and 302 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:   

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 50417

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved