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oupa
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Reged: 01/03/06
Posts: 127
Loc: Maryland,USA
New stopping rifle - sort of
      #107641 - 18/06/08 01:04 PM

Many years ago I picked up an acient Stevens M315 20bore with cut barrels. The gun was offered at a gun show as parts only. Most of it was there but a lot of it wasn't! I orginally intended to sleeve it to 28bore but one thing or another took presidence over the years. About two years ago I turned two take-off M98 Mauser barrels to fit, soldered them in and sleeved them to .22LR with the chamber ends offset to line up with the existing firing pins, which were then bushed. The rifle again was set asside, ocassionally pulled out and tinkered with but largely forgotten. About two weeks ago thanks to the torrential rain we've had this spring I started in on it again. The rifle is now ready for the finishing work to begin and I'm a bit excited about this neat little rifle, just the right medicine for charging bunnies, possums or similar small non-life threatening creatures! While the Stevens/Savage design is NOT suitable for much it is strong enough for such pipsqueek chamberings. The whole project has been quite a learning experience since so many missing parts had to be made by hand, not the lest of which was the fore end iron. Some other parts were re-engineered such as the sear springs and the stock through bolt I opted for over the orginal tang attachment. It ain't pretty but I hope the finish work will clean it up a little more. Heavy as sin (for a .22) but amazingly balanced when shouldered. Regulation is about "minute of orange" at 30 yards using cheap Remington high velocity ammo. As time permits and work progresses I'll try to post some photos.

Here's a photo as it presently exists.


Edited by CptCurl (30/06/08 02:13 AM)


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bigmaxx
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Reged: 13/06/07
Posts: 660
Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.
Re: New stopping rifle - sort of [Re: oupa]
      #107642 - 18/06/08 01:16 PM

Cant wait for pics! sounds cool...

--------------------
One day at a time...


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tinker
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Posts: 4835
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Re: New stopping rifle - sort of [Re: bigmaxx]
      #107656 - 18/06/08 05:49 PM

Way to go Oupa!


My rimfire doubles get more use than anything in the gunvaults.
Chances are you'll rarely ever put it away. Mine goes with me all around my place, from up in the attic to alongside the house along the line of cherry and plum trees, constantly pointing up into the giant avocado tree plinking squirrels and out in the machine shop keeping the rat and pigeon population down to a bare minimum.

Don't spare a moment on metal finish work.
File the hell out of it.
You won't have to worry about thinning the barrels or action too much.
Post some photos when you're ready to show it off, and for the Good Lord's sake, have a blast and a half with it!


--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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oupa
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Posts: 127
Loc: Maryland,USA
Re: New stopping rifle - sort of [Re: tinker]
      #107924 - 23/06/08 04:55 AM

Had the chance to shoot the rifle several times yesterday with the permanent sights installed (temporarily - if that makes any sense!) and the left barrel while still centered vertically, shot about 2.5" below the right barrel. I just came in from the shop while the solder cools from a re-do of the ribs and a slight adjustment to the spacer block. I hope I got it right but another trip to the range will be required to find out.

This old gun saw some real abuse in it's former life and was pretty beat up. I took Tinker's advise yesterday evening and went to work on the metal I've been neglecting so far. Particularly the trigger plate. The bottom of the receiver had a number of small dents from who knows what. I peened as much metal back into place as I could then went to work with the files and sandpaper. I'm really quite surprised - and pleased - how well it came out. While I'd like to clean up the sides more, it has some neat old engraving I don't want to lose.

I orgianlly approached this project simply as a learning experience, never really expecting much in the way of finished product. As I get closer to finishing though I'm sorry now I chose the (basicly) scrap piece of wood I did for the stock. Oh well, as I said, it's a learning aid and perhaps one day I'll upgrade the wood if it turns out well otherwise. I'll try to add some more photos as time permits.


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oupa
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Re: New stopping rifle - sort of [Re: oupa]
      #107972 - 24/06/08 04:05 AM

Success! This little rifle is pleasing me more each day. Just in from shooting with the redone ribs and here's the results.



A 3/4 inch group of four shots, two right and two left. Both shots from the left barrel went into the same hole - confirmed by recovering all four bullets from the wooden backing. I'm sure this was a fluke as my 49 year-old eyes just aren't THAT good with open sights! Just the same this is close enough for me. Much better than I had hoped for.

Edited by CptCurl (30/06/08 02:15 AM)


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tinker
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Re: New stopping rifle - sort of [Re: oupa]
      #107974 - 24/06/08 04:58 AM

Oupa-


Congratulations!
Feels good getting things together doesn't it?

Keep it up with the metal work.
You won't miss the time spent, and you'll appreciate the results for years to come.

When you're comfortable with the way your rifle's looking, post some photos for us to see.


--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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tinker
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Re: New stopping rifle - sort of [Re: oupa]
      #107986 - 24/06/08 09:30 AM

Oupa-

I got your PM, and I've attempted to send you a reply but I think there's something wrong with the PM system -- I'm still getting notified that you've sent me mail even though I've replied twice.

Mail me offsite, a good mail address for me at yahoo is spelled engineeringandclosure
Just plug and play as you'd do otherwise.

I have some info for you that you need right away.


--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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oupa
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Reged: 01/03/06
Posts: 127
Loc: Maryland,USA
Re: New stopping rifle - sort of [Re: tinker]
      #108383 - 28/06/08 12:29 PM

Since I'm fortunate to have a best friend who is also a master gunsmith I've always been lucky enough to get my bluing done for free. As my "hobby" has progressed however I've toyed with the idea of getting into rust bluing. Two weeks ago I ordered the things I didn't already have that would be necessary. So far everything except the regulator for my burner has arrived but as I was anxious to get started and happen to have a few days off work I started in on the small parts today, using a two quart sauce pan and my wife's kitchen range for the boiling! Ouma wasn't pleased but we got through it. I find it amazing to watch as the parts go in looking as though they've been rusted to ruin and come out shiny and black. Got a couple more boils to go yet but this is neat!

Been finishing the stock the last few days as well. Down to the last few coats of tru-oil as well but the high humidity while good for rusting is hard on air drying stock finish! I've been reluctant to turn the A/C on in the shop since it's not terribly efficient. The stock is hanging in the house (in the dry A/C'd air) right now.

Now if that regulator shows up in tomorrows mail maybe I can finally get the barrels blued. In retrospect doing the small parts first was a good thing. It's given me some much needed practice before tackling the barrels.


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bigmaxx
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Reged: 13/06/07
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Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.
Re: New stopping rifle - sort of [Re: oupa]
      #108386 - 28/06/08 01:35 PM

Awesome little rifle! Congratulations on a job well done...

--------------------
One day at a time...


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oupa
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Reged: 01/03/06
Posts: 127
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Re: New stopping rifle - sort of [Re: bigmaxx]
      #108460 - 29/06/08 12:24 PM

OK, got all the small parts blued and received the gas regulator today. I set up the burner and tank put in the barrels and some degreaser and sccessfully cooked it (the rest of the way) clean. Swabbed the barrels down early this afternoon and just now came in from bioling, carding and recoating. I'll let them rust overnight before boiling again.
The first coat took very well so I have pretty high hopes for this job. I'm begining to get comfortable with this process. Sorry for the lack of photos but this is a one man operation!


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tinker
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Re: New stopping rifle - sort of [Re: oupa]
      #108475 - 29/06/08 02:41 PM

Oupa-

Keep it up on your project!
I'm perfectly thrilled for you. You're really getting it together for yourself here, you'll end up with a great prize in the end.

Furthermore, this rifle project...
It's your first!

You've started something that no doubt will not stop here with this neat little double...



--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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Nakihunter
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Reged: 13/10/07
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Re: New stopping rifle - sort of [Re: oupa]
      #108485 - 29/06/08 05:37 PM

Oupa, have you got pictures of the steps you followed? What solution are you using for starting the rusting? What are you using for carding & for boiling? Are you using distilled water or plain water?
How many times are you rusting & boiling? How long do you let it rust?

I want to start with Rust bluing. I am not able to source the product off the shelf here. Pilkington's is supposed to be easy to use but not available & no one will ship it to NZ. The gunsmith who did my pre 1914 Simson suggested that I use 33% Nitric acid, 33% HCL & 33% de-greased steel wool . I have read up a bit about this method on the net & it looks like a good & safe method to use.

I want to start with my old Rem .22 & then move on to my old 1903 Mannlicher Schoenauer.

I am particularly concerned about the action & bore area - what do you do to prevent those areas from getting rusted etc?

Good luck with your project.

--------------------
Always shoot through the target & not just at it.


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oupa
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Reged: 01/03/06
Posts: 127
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Re: New stopping rifle - sort of [Re: Nakihunter]
      #108514 - 30/06/08 01:16 AM

This is my first double rifle, but I've been tinkering with guns for longer than I can remember. I've built a number of magazine rifles and done a fair amount of passable restoration of older guns. My interest was drawn to doubles some time back and it's naturally developed to this stage - double rifles. My biggest problem is controling my eagerness!

I'm presently using Brownell's Rust Blue solution. Since this is my first experience with rust bluing (on my own at least) I couldn't comment on it's qualities compared to others or on homebrewed formulas. We're lucky in The States in that we can readily obtain so much of the stuff to address thes hobbies!

Not having the space for a permanant set up I bought a two burner gas stove. The type used for camping or patio cooking. It's two feet long stainless steel. My 6x6x40 inch tank came from Brownell's. I bought the black iron but in retrospect since it's not being used for anything but boiling parts, I wish I'd gotten the stainless. I use city water. So far no problems but I understand the minerals in many wells can cause some nasty problems. If by chance you have a dehumidifier in the home, it's a great source of pure distilled water if needed!

Here's a photo of the tank and burner.



I'm using plain old degreased steel wool for carding - 4/0 because its what I had on hand. To degrease the parts before starting I use boiling water and a carpet cleaning agent (degreaser) I bought at Lowes (home improvement store). It's made by Johnson Wax company and is "professional strength." This stuff is powerful and will take the oil right out of your skin if it gets on your hands. I'd guess an auto engine cleaner like "Gunk" would do about the same thing just make sure its non-flamable.
The parts of course dry quickly when removed from the boil but wet spots (especially weep holes in the rib) can be hit with the heat gun (or a hair drier). The solution is then swabbed on VERY THIN, just barely wetting the surface and ideally drying almost immediately due to the heat of the parts. The time it's left on can vary according to the humidity in the air. Yesterday and today we're in a thunderstorm mode so rusting is going pretty well. I've boiled and carded as quickly as two hours and as long as twelve so far! You have to judge it case by case each time. I made wooden plugs for the bores as per the instructions but my professional gunsmith buddy told me last evening he rarely does so. Stated he uses plugs mostly as handles but scrubs the bores throughly once bluing is complete with no ill effect. His bluing work is renowned so personally I'll take his advice but can't reccomend it over Brownell's instructions to anyone else!

I did degrease my wire wheel by spraying with aerosol break cleaner NOTE: do this ONLY while the machine is OFF!!! Break cleaner is highly flamable and the vapor can burst into flames from a spark in the motor. Spray the wheel liberally and allow to drain, turning by hand a few times as it does. Once most of the solvent is off the wheel you can turn it on momentarily but any remaining solvent will be slung everywhere! So far however I've only used the wheel once. I encountered a bad streak on the buttplate half way through and blended it out with the wheel. Once the desired color is acheived the parts are saturated with oil. I used ATF (auto trans. fluid) because it's cheap and creeps into every nook. I dunked as many parts as possible and slopped it on everything else very heavy then set them asside for 24 hours. Here's some of the small parts.



After 24 hours the parts are wiped off and buffed with paper towels. My results so far have been great. This is a terrific way to get professonal blue with minimal investment in equipment. Other than the burner and tank, everything else is commonly available - except the solution of course. It is time consuming but then this is a hobby right?

Edited by CptCurl (30/06/08 02:17 AM)


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: New stopping rifle - sort of [Re: oupa]
      #108518 - 30/06/08 02:19 AM

oupa,

Very interesting and informative thread. I have edited the posts to embed the photos in your narrative. Makes for easier reading!

Keep us informed with your progress.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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oupa
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Re: New stopping rifle - sort of [Re: CptCurl]
      #108532 - 30/06/08 08:07 AM

OK, let's see if I have this photo posting stuff figured out. The barrels are finished bluing and presently swabbed with a thick coat of oil to cure. During the last boil I reassembled the receiver. Here's a shot of the receiver along side the oiled barrels.


Edited by CptCurl (01/07/08 06:54 AM)


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Nakihunter
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Reged: 13/10/07
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Re: New stopping rifle - sort of [Re: oupa]
      #108541 - 30/06/08 10:06 AM

Thanks for the info. Great stuff!! Cant wait to see you final stages of the rifle & how it shoots!

--------------------
Always shoot through the target & not just at it.


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oupa
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Posts: 127
Loc: Maryland,USA
Re: New stopping rifle - sort of [Re: oupa]
      #108604 - 01/07/08 12:13 AM

OK boys, I got the little rifle screwed together. I can see a dozen "mistakes" but it was intended as a learning experience. All in all I'm still rather pleased with her.




Edited by CptCurl (01/07/08 06:55 AM)


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Bramble
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Re: New stopping rifle - sort of [Re: oupa]
      #108640 - 01/07/08 06:33 AM

I think that you have made a very nice hand at it.

As a 22 it will get so much more use than a big bore you will be springing for $1000.00's of walnut to put on her before you know it.

Regards


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tinker
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Re: New stopping rifle - sort of [Re: oupa]
      #108644 - 01/07/08 08:00 AM


Oupa-

Big bushels of praise to you on getting into, getting through, and making a great deal of your project.
You have one really cool little 22 there and heaps of lessons to take into the next project if/when you choose to go there.

Cool Rifle!



--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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Nakihunter
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Re: New stopping rifle - sort of [Re: tinker]
      #108648 - 01/07/08 08:42 AM

Great job. Hope to see the next project!

--------------------
Always shoot through the target & not just at it.


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oupa
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Re: New stopping rifle - sort of [Re: Nakihunter]
      #108651 - 01/07/08 09:17 AM

The less than great quality of the photos shows what appears to be flaws where none exist - the fore end iron for instance looks crooked in the photo but its not. Similarly, some of the flaws that do exist conveniently are not as obvious! The less than perfect of wood to metal and the fore end not as well fitted to the barrels as I'd prefer. You may have noticed the plug that had to be put in a knot behind the cheek piece and the extra wood acraglassed onto the bottom of the stock where it meets the receiver. I'd cut this stock for another project and discarded it due to the knot, which turned out worse than expected in the blank. The wrist/action buttress' were too thin necesitating the added wood. Never expected it to turn out so well when I decided on these expedient "fixes"!!! The good thing is that wood is the easiest thing to replace later if I choose to. Thanks for the praise fellas! I do appreciate it greatly.

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dale
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Reged: 28/02/06
Posts: 341
Loc: logan W.V.
Re: New stopping rifle - sort of [Re: oupa]
      #108941 - 04/07/08 06:02 PM

Well naturally I love it, & dying to know what your're gonna do now about a scope. The quarter rib turned out especially nice and looks like you got plenty of options.

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4seventy
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Re: New stopping rifle - sort of [Re: oupa]
      #108947 - 04/07/08 08:35 PM

oupa,
What a great little rifle!
Your information on rust blue is very interesting too.
Thanks for posting!


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oupa
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Reged: 01/03/06
Posts: 127
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Re: New stopping rifle - sort of [Re: 4seventy]
      #108970 - 05/07/08 12:57 AM

dale,
the quater rib is nothing more than 1/2 X 1/2 inch square stock from the local hardware store cut and shaped. The stuff comes with cadmium plating but that's easily filed and polished off. It's a mild steel and blues very well. The riser for the front base is of the same material in 3/8 inch.

While I'm glad some have found the rust bluing description helpful please do not take it as some sort of tutorial!!! For heaven's sake it was my FIRST attempt. That said, I found it rather simple though time consuming. The results are pleasing though and well worth the long, dirty job! I'd reccomend it to anyone wishing to try their hand. In fact I'm just in from putting the first coat of solution on the parts of a 20bore gun I decided to do today because of the high humidity.


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Nighthawk
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Reged: 12/02/07
Posts: 46
Loc: Belgium
Re: New stopping rifle - sort of [Re: oupa]
      #109352 - 09/07/08 11:33 PM

Neat project. Thanks for sharing!

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