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ozhunter
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J Corbett, Man Eaters of Kumaon
      #106579 - 03/06/08 05:42 PM

While reading this wonderful book of Mr Corbett's I questioned my self as to which Rifle or rifles would I have used had I been in his shoes?
My "runners up" were a Sauer, Merkel or Simpson Drilling in 9.3x74 x 9.3x74 x 12GA or a 9.3x62 on a M98 with a 4# scope on Claw mounts.
I then decided a short and light 375H&H Flanged Magnum Double rifle with a 4# scope in Claw mounts.
What would you have preferred to use in such a situation with the rifle of the day?


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gryphon
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Re: J Corbett, Man Eaters of Kumaon [Re: ozhunter]
      #106607 - 04/06/08 02:57 AM

flamethrower

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Landy
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Re: J Corbett, Man Eaters of Kumaon [Re: gryphon]
      #106634 - 04/06/08 09:28 AM

I think you picked "the" one with the drilling. Maybe, a matched pair or pair of barrels with double rifle single shot for day and double shot single rifle for night.

Corbett was not lacking in testicular fortitude.


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Paul
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Re: J Corbett, Man Eaters of Kumaon [Re: Landy]
      #106652 - 04/06/08 02:23 PM

Without going to the library, I think he liked the .500 BP Express (probably using nitro for black) for tiger and claimed the heavy bullet saved him from at least one charge. What else without heavier recoil would replace that?

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ozhunter
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Re: J Corbett, Man Eaters of Kumaon [Re: Paul]
      #106669 - 04/06/08 07:33 PM

Corbett extensively used a 275, 450/400 and 450NE on most of his hunts.

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Nakihunter
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Re: J Corbett, Man Eaters of Kumaon [Re: ozhunter]
      #106761 - 05/06/08 10:03 AM

Pre 1909, he used the 500BP & 577 as well.

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Farhan
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Re: J Corbett, Man Eaters of Kumaon [Re: Nakihunter]
      #106770 - 05/06/08 03:35 PM

Corbet also used 500 no 2 made by R B Rodha which he gifted to one of his close friends while going to kenya and that man sold that gun to the shop named Manthons of Cullcataand that gun is with me right now

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: J Corbett, Man Eaters of Kumaon [Re: Farhan]
      #106778 - 05/06/08 04:43 PM

I think a light .450/400 would make a nice Tiger rifle in heavy jungle. In more open country a scoped bolt action in the range of a .318 to .375 to do nicely.

Tigers are impressive and magnificent beasts in the wild and still kill people living in the neighbourhood of their parks every year in India and elsewhere. Maybe not particularly "maneaters", but if encountered suddenly or if surprised.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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Altamaha
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Re: J Corbett, Man Eaters of Kumaon [Re: NitroX]
      #223952 - 20/01/13 05:26 AM

I received an original copy of this book, complete with the dust jacket, in perfect condition as a Christmas Gift this year. I have read many of Corbett's books, but never this one.

Just finished the book.

Corbett took a few chances in his tiger hunting!! Sometimes going out with only two or three cartridges. Taking an overnight stand in what I call a perfect ambush site for a tiger to seize him.

Needless to say he was fearless and equipped with nerves of fine tempered steel.

He was using both the .275 and a 450/400 in this book.

Myself? I would use my 375 H&H Mauser (25 inch barrel, irons and a 2-1/2X scope) for the mid to long range work. Then my 18 inch barreled 458 Mauser (rear aperture sight) and a good soft for the close work. That is if you could force me into the jungle to look for a man eater!!!

Edited by Altamaha (20/01/13 07:54 AM)


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Rule303
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Re: J Corbett, Man Eaters of Kumaon [Re: Altamaha]
      #223962 - 20/01/13 02:27 PM

Of the calibres and rifles I have my first choice would be 375H&H in a Rem 700 with 300grain round nose pills, This is lighter and quicker handling then my CZ550's followed by my 35Sambar in a Ruger Mk11 using a 250 or 275grain Woodleigh.

If buying a rifle specifically for this then a light 416 Rigby or 404J with a 22 to 23 inch barrel.

Would never be able to afford a good double but a Bakial in 45-70 for close range.


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gryphon
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Re: J Corbett, Man Eaters of Kumaon [Re: Rule303]
      #223965 - 20/01/13 03:11 PM

When the tiger is coming at you that .375 could be a long round to work super quick.

--------------------
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Even
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Re: J Corbett, Man Eaters of Kumaon [Re: Rule303]
      #223966 - 20/01/13 03:12 PM

His books are amazing. I would have liked to have met the man, very much.

I think he had it right. A light, fast handling 7x57/.275 Rigby for general hunting, and climbing around in the hills and mountains, where a long shot might present itself, and a bigger double for bait work and night work, where the potential for a charge is there, and the range is close.

I'd take a Type A or B Oberndorf Mauser in 8x57, and a 450/400 NE Double, and call it good


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ozhunter
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Re: J Corbett, Man Eaters of Kumaon [Re: Even]
      #223971 - 20/01/13 09:28 PM

My Rifle of choice mights have been this light and handy Westley Richards 375F;




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FrankFarmer
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Re: J Corbett, Man Eaters of Kumaon [Re: Farhan]
      #223999 - 21/01/13 04:54 AM

Greetings, Are there any pictures of Corbett's 500 number 2 available?
Regards,
Fred.


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Grenadier
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Re: J Corbett, Man Eaters of Kumaon [Re: FrankFarmer]
      #224007 - 21/01/13 06:28 AM

In his many years in the jungle Jim Corbett used several rifles and shotguns. Here you can see discussion of a .275 magazine rifle, a .500 modified cordite double rifle, and a shotgun. Apparently he favored the shotgun when shooting in the dusk or dark. He speaks of slugs but goes on to say "eight slugs" when referring to what the gun fired. Was this four slugs per barrel or four very large pellets of buck per barrel? Anyway, I have edited part of one book down where it discusses these firearms.

Too bad he didn't have a PARADOX Gun. He would have had a choice of .735 caliber solid or hollowpoint bullets and the same gun would have delivered shot, buckshot, or his "slugs" with equal aplomb.

This is from "The Temple Tiger and More Man-Eaters of Kumaon":
Quote:

Temple Tiger -


Some months previously I had been to Calcutta on a short visit, and one morning walked into Manton's, the gunmaker's shop. On a glass showcase near the door was a rifle. I was looking at the weapon when the manager, who was an old friend of mine, came up. He informed me that the rifle was a .275 by Westley Richards, was a new model which the makers were anxious to introduce on the Indian market for hill shooting. The rifle was a beauty and the manager had little difficulty in persuading me to buy it on the understanding that if it did not suit me I would be at liberty to return it. So when I set out with my village friend that evening to shoot his jarao with horns as big as the branches of an oak tree, I was carrying my brand-new rifle.


[Then he encounters villager's who sighted a tiger and then he located a kill and pug marks]


Rejoining the two men at the hut I told them I was going back to the Rest House for my heavy rifle, a double-barrelled .500 express using modified cordite. My guide very sportingly offered to save me this trouble, so after instructing him I sat down with the villager at the door of his hut and listened to the tales he had to tell of a poor but undaunted man's fight against nature and wild animals, to keep a grass roof above his head. ....


Singh — one of the best men who ever stepped out of Garhwal, and of whose tragic death some years later I have already told of — was carrying a lantern. On reaching me Bala Singh said he had not brought my heavy rifle because the cartridges for it were locked up in my suitcase and I had forgotten to send the key. Well, the tiger would have to be shot with my new rifle, and it could not have a better christening....


I was gripping the rifle and straining my eyes on the ground under me when the tiger, who had avoided passing under my tree, arrived at his kill and was angry at what he found....


And now, when I looked down, there was the tiger standing below me, in brilliant moonlight, looking over his right shoulder at Bala Singh. The distance between the muzzle of my rifle and the tiger's head was about five feet, and the thought flashed through my mind that the cordite would probably singe his hair. The ivory foresight of my rifle was on the exact spot of the tiger's heart — where I knew my bullet would kill him instantaneously — when I gently pressed the trigger. The trigger gave under the pressure, and nothing happened.


Heavens! How incredibly careless I had been. I distinctly remembered having put a clip of five cartridges in the magazine when I took my seat on the tree, but quite evidently when I pushed the bolt home it had failed to convey a cartridge from the magazine into the chamber, and this I had omitted to observe. Had the rifle been old and worn it might still have been possible to rectify my mistake. But the rifle was new and as I raised the lever to draw back the bolt there was a loud metallic click, and in one bound the tiger was up the bank and out of sight. Turning my head to see how Bala Singh had reacted, I saw him step back into the hut and close the door.


There was now no longer any need for silence and as Bala Singh came up at my call, to help me off the tree, I drew back the bolt of the rifle with the object of unloading the magazine and, as I did so, I noticed that the extractor at the end of the bolt held a cartridge. So the rifle had been loaded after all and the safety-catch off. Why then had the rifle not fired when I pulled the trigger? Too late, I knew the reason. One of the recommendations stressed by Manton's manager when showing me the rifle was that it had a double pull off. Never having handled a rifle with this so-called improvement, I did not know it was necessary, after the initial pull had taken up the slack, to pull the trigger a second time to release the striker. When I explained the reason for my failure to Bala Singh, he blamed himself, 'for', said he, 'if I had brought your heavy rifle and the suitcase this would not have happened'. I was inclined to agree with him at the time, but as the days went by I was not so sure that even with the heavy rifle I would have been able to
kill the tiger that evening.





Quote:

The Panar Man-Eater -


Within a few minutes I collected all the things I needed — a spare rifle and a shotgun, cartridges, rope, and a length of fishing-line — and set off up the steep hill accompanied by the villager and two of my men. It was a sultry day, and though the distance was not great — three miles at the most — the climb of four thousand feet in the hot sun was very trying and I arrived at the village in a bath of sweat....


I procured two stout eight-foot bamboos from the village and drove them into the ground close to the perpendicular bank that divided the field where the body was laying from the field below. To these bamboos I fixed my spare rifle and shotgun securely, tied lengths of dressed silk fishing-line to the triggers, looped the lines back over the trigger-guards, and fastened them to two stakes driven into the hillside on the far side of, and a little above, the path. If the leopard came along the path he had used the previous night there was a reasonable chance of his pulling on lines and shooting himself; on the other hand, if he avoided them, or come by any other way, and I fired at him while he was on the kill, he would be almost certain to run into the trap which lay on his most natural line of retreat.


[He is unsuccessful and tries again another night with a goat as bait]


The moon was in her third quarter and there would be several hours of darkness. In anticipation of the leopard's coming when light conditions were not favourable, I had armed myself with a twelve-bore double-barrelled shot gun loaded with slugs, for there was a better chance of my hitting the leopard with eight slugs than with a single rifle bullet. Aids to night shooting, in the way of electric lights and torches, were not used in India at the time I am writing about, and all that one had to rely on for accuracy of aim was a strip of white cloth tied round the muzzle
of the weapon.


Again nothing happened for many minutes, and then I felt a gentle pull on the blackthorn shoots I was holding and blessed my forethought in having had the shoots tied to the leaning tree, for I could not turn round to defend myself and at best the collar of my coat and my hat were poor protection. No question now that I was dealing with a man-eater, and a very determined man-eater
at that. Finding that he could not climb over the thorns, the leopard, after his initial pull, had now got the butt ends of the shoots between his teeth and was jerking them violently, pulling me hard against the trunk of the tree. And now the last of the daylight faded out of the sky and the leopard, who did all his human killing in the dark, was in his element and I was out of mine, for in the dark a human being is the most helpless of all animals and — speaking for myself — his courage is at its lowest ebb. Having killed four hundred human brings at night, the leopard was quite unafraid of me, as was evident from the fact that while tugging at the shoots, he was growling loud enough to be heard by the men anxiously listening in the village. While this growling terrified the men, as they told me later, it had the opposite effect on me, for it let me know where the leopard was and what he was doing. It was when he was silent that I was most terrified, for I did not know what his next move would be. Several times he had nearly unseated me by pulling on the shoots vigorously and then suddenly letting them go, and now that it was dark and I had nothing stable to hold on to, I felt sure that if he sprang up he would only need to touch me to send me crashing to the ground.


Alter one of these nerve-racking periods of silence the leopard jumped down off the high bank and dashed towards the goat. In the hope that the leopard would come while there was still sufficient light to shoot by, I had tied the goat thirty yards from the tree to give me time to kill the leopard before it got to the goat. But now, in the dark, I could not save the goat — which,
being white, I could only just see as an indistinct blur — so I waited until it had stopped struggling and then aimed where I thought the leopard would be and pressed the trigger. My shot
was greeted with an angry grunt and I saw a white flash as the leopard went over backwards, and disappeared down another high bank into the field beyond.


For ten or fifteen minutes I listened anxiously for further sounds from the leopard, and then my men called out and asked if they should come to me. It was now quite safe for them to do
so, provided they kept to the high ground.......


[He gets down and decides he will look for the leopard the following morning. The villagers insist that he at least look for a blood trail so, after a smoke break, they follow-up the leopard]


Thirty yards to the goat, and another twenty yards to the edge of the field. Very slowly, and in silence, we moved forward. When we reached the goat — no time now to look for a blood trail — - the farther end of the lower field came into view. The nearer we approached the edge, the more of this field became visible, and then, when only a narrow strip remained in shadow from the torches, the leopard, with a succession of angry grunts, sprang up the bank and into full view.....


There is something very terrifying in the angry grunt of a charging leopard, and I have seen a line of elephants that were staunch to tiger turn and stampede from a charging leopard; so I was not surprised when my companions, all of whom were unarmed, turned as one man and bolted. Fortunately for me, in their anxiety to get away they collided with each other and some of the burning splinters of pine — held loosely in their hands — fell to the ground and continued to flicker, giving me sufficient light to put a charge of slugs into the leopard's chest.




--------------------
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gryphon
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Re: J Corbett, Man Eaters of Kumaon [Re: Grenadier]
      #224008 - 21/01/13 06:43 AM

Even though I have all of his books and have re read the tales since I was a little kid I none the less read the above excerpts again with pleasure.

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eagle27
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Re: J Corbett, Man Eaters of Kumaon [Re: gryphon]
      #224044 - 21/01/13 04:32 PM

Quote:

Even though I have all of his books and have re read the tales since I was a little kid I none the less read the above excerpts again with pleasure.




Me too, I have experienced many a walk in the jungle and close call tiger hunts through his descriptive writings. I never tire of picking up one of his books and reading it from cover to cover again.


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Don
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Re: J Corbett, Man Eaters of Kumaon [Re: eagle27]
      #224087 - 22/01/13 06:58 AM

If I may chime in here. I have often wondered why Corbett and other hunters of man eaters didn’t use dogs? A dog like a Fila Brasileiro would be perfect for this role. They are big (150 lbs.+), vicious as hell (illegal to own in England and other commonwealth countries) and good tracker (part bloodhound). A good sized pack of these dogs followed by a man with a powerful rifle…..this would be a deadly combination.

Don


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Altamaha
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Re: J Corbett, Man Eaters of Kumaon [Re: Don]
      #224099 - 22/01/13 11:55 AM

Quote:

If I may chime in here. I have often wondered why Corbett and other hunters of man eaters didn’t use dogs? A dog like a Fila Brasileiro would be perfect for this role. They are big (150 lbs.+), vicious as hell (illegal to own in England and other commonwealth countries) and good tracker (part bloodhound). A good sized pack of these dogs followed by a man with a powerful rifle…..this would be a deadly combination.

Don




Dogs work great on Cougar (I live in cougar country and have been on hunts with dogs).

But, takes more than one man to handle dogs, keep up with the pack and try to figure out where the tiger is going. Corbett was in his years when he was taking the man eaters, look at the photos. And you gotta be a young stud to keep up! Big difference is a cougar will tree but a big tiger will just turn and kill the dogs. Tigers will set a trap for what ever is following them. Cougars just run until they tire and find a tree.

Corbett hunted alone, best way to bag a man eater is sitting in a Machaan over the fresh kill. The man eater will eventually come back. Often the man eater will stalk the hunter. No sleeping in the Machaan!!!

He did use his dog Robin on Leopard.

Edited by Altamaha (22/01/13 11:57 AM)


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Don
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Re: J Corbett, Man Eaters of Kumaon [Re: Altamaha]
      #224100 - 22/01/13 12:50 PM

Altamaha;

You made some really good points and answered my question. When I think about it in light of your comments, a big difference is the respective psychological differences between the various large cats. A tiger or leopard do think much differently than say a jaguar or a mountain lion (cougar) particularly with regard to aggression. For example, there have been relatively few cases of cougars turning to man eating. A leopard will turn to man eating very quickly and rack up kills in the hundreds. And in some cases spots will make house calls.

Best regards,

Don


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gryphon
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Re: J Corbett, Man Eaters of Kumaon [Re: Don]
      #224101 - 22/01/13 01:37 PM

If you have ever seen the videos of big male lions killing hyaenas I think its easy to agree that I think a tiger would make very quick work of a dog or three.

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mckinney
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Re: J Corbett, Man Eaters of Kumaon [Re: gryphon]
      #224831 - 06/02/13 04:41 AM

I have a copy of this particular book on my nightstand and must have read it a dozen times by now. I think Corbett is the greatest of all the story tellers. In addition, he drops in tantalizing references to things without going into them - apparent references to the supernatural or the taboo. Perhaps this is the result of spending so much time in the mystical East.

As to guns for doing what he did, I'd take a 9.3 x 62 Type A Mauser with an S & W 1950 target in .44 special (ala Elmer Keith) as a sidearm. A 12 bore Winchester Model 12 with 00 buckshot might also be useful.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: J Corbett, Man Eaters of Kumaon [Re: mckinney]
      #250498 - 15/07/14 10:38 PM

Perhaps these.



ROYAL Weapons of INDIA
The Jim Corbett's rifle, which now resides in the Elmer Keith Museum, at Cabela's, in Boise, Id. ( The Corbett rifle is the one below the Sharp)

"I own the late Jim Corbett's tiger rifle-the best quality boxlock .450-400(3") double rifle by W.J. Jeffery & Co., with which he killed so many man-eating tigers for the Indian government. He also used it in Africa. The brass-cornered oak and leather case is in fine shape, while the rifle shows more use and less abuse than any old rifle I have ever seen.

The metal is as bright as a silver dollar. The action is that good No. 2 Jeffery is sound and tight as a rat trap. Engraving shows up even better on the bright steel. Only traces of checkering are left. The stock ears are actually worn away from the frame, as is the butt of the stock from the engraved heel and toe plates.

The bores are grey in the grooves from cordite, and the lands are worn down about halfway, but there are no pits from neglect.

With Corbett lying out in tree crotches and machans in the rain waiting for tigers, this rifle was exposed to all kinds of weather. Jim Corbett had no Hoppes No. 9, or Rice's X-10 solvent, but I would bet he poured many gallons of water through these tubes. In spite of external wear, this .450-400 is as effective and accurate a hunting rifle as when turned out by W.J. Jeffery & Co.. I fired both barrels at a six inch bull's eye at 80 yards, shooting from a car window. The bullets(Kynoch 400 grain softnose) landed one inch apart, one directly over the other, both cutting the centerline of the target. Jim sold this rifle to a man from Vancouver, and my friend George Neary got it from him. I swapped a perfect .350 Elliot caliber Danial Frazer double ejector for it.

I would like to have known Jim Corbett. His book, Man Eaters of Kumoan, is a masterpiece on the Indian tiger and proves he knew more about life and habits, of that beast than any living man. I treasure his old rifle. You can judge a man by the condition of his rifle."

Elmer Keith




ROYAL Weapons of INDIA
This is the .275 Rigby-Mauser of Jim Corbett. Still I do not know where this gun is today.
Jim Corbett tells about the time he purchased and the first hunt with this rifle in his book "The Temple Tiger" the hunt did not go on as planed as the man Jim sent to get his big rifle found it locked in the suitcase so Jim decides to shot the tiger with this rifle. But when he pulled the trigger the gun did not fire, when Jim tried to reload the tiger heard the sound and ran away. Then Jim realised his mistake, The rifle was a double trigger and he had to squeeze the trigger a bit harder when it comes to a rest.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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