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Woodbeef
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35 Whelen vs 9.3x57 ?
      #105930 - 23/05/08 08:17 PM

Out side of availabilty of used rifles going to the 9.3x57,and availabilty of factory loadings going to the 35 Whelen,is there really that much of a difference between the two?

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9.3x57
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Re: 35 Whelen vs 9.3x57 ? [Re: Woodbeef]
      #105943 - 23/05/08 11:03 PM

I've never owned a Whelen, but I think you have pretty well summed it up. Maybe a wee bit of velocity edge to the Whelen with full loads, but the x57 in a modern rifle is quite surprising in its range of velocities. It is a very "modern" cartridge.

It is just beyond the velocity level of the x57 that recoil takes a big jump, too, making the 9.3x57 a VERY shootable cartridge. And, as Daryl has oftimes stated, the modern x57 performance level just about equals the level of the 9.3x62 of olden days when that grand old killer gained and earned its great reputation.

For years, .35 bullets had a reputation for being soft, and tho there are lots avilable, I am not sure what performance level they maintain throughout the range of weights. They DO include cheap revolver rounds for plinking.

With the availability of resizing from .375 down {with cheap resizing dies available}, the 9.3 caliber really doubles, or more, its bullet availablity.

The Whelen has in theory a sectional density advantage when equal weight bullets are used between the two cartridges, bullets that can be shot to equal velocities due to the Whelen's wee-bit-bigger case volume, but I show my hand in saying "theoretical" since I don't think it would amount to anything in the field that a critter would notice and barely shows up on paper.

The more I hunt with and shoot the 9.3x57, the more I think of it as a highly modern, efficient cartridge. Looking at Norma's factory ballistics or others jogging along at 38,000 cup or whatever and the 9.3x57 looks a bit like a .35 Remington with a cup of strong coffee in its belly, but in reality, loaded in a good action to similar pressure levels, I would take it over the Whelen {and did}, though I would not refuse the gift of a .35 Whelen were one to be given me! It, too is a great cartridge.

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pinotguy
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Re: 35 Whelen vs 9.3x57 ? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #105951 - 24/05/08 01:33 AM

Interesting comparison. In the past, I had always thought of the 9.3x57 more akin to the 358 Win. as opposed to the Whelen.

9ThreeXFifty7,

Just curious here - could one use bullets for the 9mm Makarov in the 9.3 family to plink with?

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9.3x57
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Re: 35 Whelen vs 9.3x57 ? [Re: pinotguy]
      #105957 - 24/05/08 02:08 AM

Quote:

Interesting comparison. In the past, I had always thought of the 9.3x57 more akin to the 358 Win. as opposed to the Whelen.

9ThreeXFifty7,

Just curious here - could one use bullets for the 9mm Makarov in the 9.3 family to plink with?




Pinot, in the old loadings the x57 approximates what you might think of as a "heavy bullet .358". But in a modern action or 98, it is nearly the equal, and with bullets of same weight, maybe the equal or better in terms of muzzle velocity-100 yards at least, the x57 case being between the two .35's in volume and the expansion ratio larger for the 9.3.

As for Mak bullets, sure. Many are .364 diameter tho, and for such undersize bullets stick with jacketed, but you are right...like the revolver bullets in the .35, the Mak bullets are applicable for the 9.3. Strike another advantage from the list of .35's!

Some 9.3x57's have overbore barrels common to some other guns of the 20's-40's, being as big as .370 as reported on the Swede forum and here...Daryl. My HVA 146 is .369, my 46 is .367/.368.

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DarylS
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Re: 35 Whelen vs 9.3x57 ? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #105963 - 24/05/08 03:04 AM

To compare the .35 Whelen and the 9.3x57, one should perhaps compare them in the same action of identical strength.
: First some basics. The .358 has a .358" groove diameter, while most 9.3's have a .358 bore diameter.
: An example of comparrison.
: Using the same weight bullets, the 57mm case in 8mm will generally be found to develop the same velocities at the same pressures as the '06 case in .308 calibre, using the same weight of bullets. Sectional density favours the smaller diameter bullet for any given weight, however this advantage is very small and usually not recognisable to any extent within normal hunting ranges.
: The comparrison of the 9.3x57 (on the 57mm x 8mm case) and .35 Whelen (on the '06 case), in the same action will give virtually identical results, given the same weight bullet, ie: velocities will be virtually identical at the same pressure.
; In the more common Swedish '96 action as the Husky M46 and M46A uses, we keep the velocities and thus pressures a bit lower, yet still completely capable of taking most game here and afar. My 'maybe not so weak' little M46 generates 2,170fps with a 300gr. RN of interlock or bonded construction, where as the original load which made the 9.3x62 famous, it's 286gr. bullet's velocity was 'supposed to be' 2,175fps, but probably fell slightly short of that. Mine were chronographed and proven. As to presure, they showed only .0002" (2/10,000") web expansion on firing, with low enough pressures that the necks to expand all the way. No, not becasue they were work hardened. Such our modern powders work wonders in some cases.
; So what we have is the 9,3x57 being virtually identical to the .35 Whelen, given the same action, whereas the 9.3x62, due to it's much greater capacity, being slightly better than the .35 Whelen Improved ( as both have similar case capacities.
: In the case of the 57mm case as opposed to the '06 case, the 57mm case matched the speeds of the greater capacity case due only to the increased groove diameter of it's bore increasing the expansion ratio of the powder, thus produced identical velocties with the same bullet weight.
: In the case of the 9.3x62 and the .35 Whelen Improved, since the case capacities were almost identical, the larger exceeds the Whelen in velocitiy due to the 9.3's greater expansion ratio.

--------------------
Daryl


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CHAPUISARMES
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Re: 35 Whelen vs 9.3x57 ? [Re: DarylS]
      #105992 - 24/05/08 04:55 PM

Hi all,

I have read your article which seems to have the 9.3 x 57 ahead of the 35 Whelen but how would you rate the larger 9.3 x 62 or the new 9.3 x 66 Sako Magnum in the above context.

--------------------


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9.3x57
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Re: 35 Whelen vs 9.3x57 ? [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #106007 - 25/05/08 01:26 AM

Chapuis:

Waiting for Daryl to respond, here, but in the meantime,

The x66 SM splits the difference in velocity between the x62 and the x64, correct?

As such, when all 4 are loaded to the same pressures, the three longer rounds will always be able to drive identical bullets to faster speeds than the shorter x57.

Whether this is always an advantage over the x57 or not depends on the game and the ranges at which it is shot.

For woods and MOST hunting I suppose, I'm waiting for the buying public to discover light fast handling mediums again. Maybe I am wrong, but when shots are 200 or less and the game is deer/elk/moose or something like those, the mediums in the .35-.375 bracket based on .308, x57 and '06 cases have a lot going for them.

The wound channels I've traced caused by my x57 in deer, elk and bear shot at 25-225 yards or so are good and wide but without the lateral and peripheral, hydraulic, "explosive" trauma of the light highspeed calibers or even the fast mediums. Guys with a 9x57, .358, .35 Whelen, 9.3x62, 9.5x57 and .375'06 probably find the same, depending on bullets used of course.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Edited by 9ThreeXFifty7 (25/05/08 01:31 AM)

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DarylS
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Re: 35 Whelen vs 9.3x57 ? [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #106008 - 25/05/08 01:26 AM

Already did - above.
: The only reason the 9.3x57 could be deemed as better than a standard .35 Whelen, is the ease of obtaining heavier bullets - to 320gr. in factory made as well as the drawn 300gr.'ers we're now making. The .358 calibre nowadays is pretty much stopped around 250gr. and while it is a good bullet, I prefer a similar BC in a larger diameter - of course. If 280gr. to 300gr. .358's were still easily available, they'd be pretty much fish in a barrel.
: The 9.3x66 SAKO is a new one, which will give virtually identical performance on game as 9.3x62 handloads.

--------------------
Daryl


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 35 Whelen vs 9.3x57 ? [Re: DarylS]
      #106009 - 25/05/08 02:14 AM

You could always draw down the heavy 9.3 bullets to .358". Same principle applies, I suppose.

Curl

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9.3x57
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Re: 35 Whelen vs 9.3x57 ? [Re: CptCurl]
      #106011 - 25/05/08 02:46 AM

Quote:

You could always draw down the heavy 9.3 bullets to .358". Same principle applies, I suppose.

Curl



Absolutely true and if a guy wanted some heavies in .358 caliber it just might be the way to go. In fact, given the success I've had with .375/9.3 sizing, I would definitely go that way in comparing & experimenting with heavy-bullets in .358 caliber if I owned a .358 Win or .35 Whelen.

The big advantage of the .375's for 9.3 shooters, at least here in my parts, is that there are a lot of .375's available, many of which are pretty inexpensive, versus a very limited supply of more expensive 9.3's. The .375's make the 9.3 a very viable "plinker" almost!

As for the benefit to .358 cal, the 9.3's offer "premium" performance, not so much inexpensive plinking or "skill-building" bullets, except for the Prvi Partizan 285, which might just be an all-round winner in the Whelen.

Your thought on the subject is right-on.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Nakihunter
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Re: 35 Whelen vs 9.3x57 ? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #106023 - 25/05/08 11:37 AM

I have owned rifles in 358 Win, 9.3X57 & 9.3X62. I just passed on the Whelen. There is very little between the 358 Win & the Hasquvarna 9.3X57. The 358 has the advantage of being available in the Browning Mod 81 BLR & Winchester Mod 88 & I have owned both. I also built up a Mod 70 short action 358 & still regret selling it.

The 9.3X62 is in a different class & particularly so with the 320gr Woodleigh or the new 325 gr Norma. That would put the cartridge close to the 375 H&H level of effectiveness out to 100 yards. I do not see the 35 Whelen operating at that level even with heavy bullets.

For game up to Moose & Elk any of the 4 calibers will do the job out to 200 meters or so all the time. When you look at larger / dangerous game I would only consider the 9.3X62 among the lot. That is my personal subjective view.

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9.3x57
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Re: 35 Whelen vs 9.3x57 ? [Re: Nakihunter]
      #106025 - 25/05/08 11:56 AM

Quote:

I also built up a Mod 70 short action 358 & still regret selling it.



Good points, Naki, and that .358 must have been a peach!!

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Landy
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Re: 35 Whelen vs 9.3x57 ? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #106037 - 25/05/08 05:07 PM

Lighter (225s) at higher velocity and/or higher BCs for longer range is the only place .35s outshine 9.3s in near sized cases. Much, most, hunting does not require this capacity. A 35 may make a better "allarounder" kinda tough to envision a good pronghorn or sheep load for my 9.3x57, but one of my 350s with 225s at 2700.

Edited by Landy (25/05/08 05:10 PM)

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9.3x57
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Re: 35 Whelen vs 9.3x57 ? [Re: Landy]
      #106046 - 25/05/08 11:27 PM

Quote:

Lighter (225s) at higher velocity and/or higher BCs for longer range is the only place .35s outshine 9.3s in near sized cases. Much, most, hunting does not require this capacity. A 35 may make a better "allarounder" kinda tough to envision a good pronghorn or sheep load for my 9.3x57, but one of my 350s with 225s at 2700.



Landy, good point.

Taking, say, a modern Remington or Ruger and building up two rifles with identical barrel length's, I wonder what top-end velocities could be obtained with the resized Hornady 225 in the 9.3 versus the same weight in the .35 Whelen at identical pressures. The lack of case volume in the x57 might be made up for by expansion ratio advantage, but the external ballistic advantage would be to the .35 with its better sectional density. All small advantages, but at the velocities you are quoting, 225/2700 I wonder; could a 9.3x57 safely reach that speed?

The problem with the 9.3x57 is that it is something of a "mysterious" caliber. Sort of semi-wildcat, quasi-factory. There is no extensive development work to look at, no large number of modern rifles to use for load development, etc and on other forums I've read lots of opinion that seems based on just looking at it and reading the Norma factory load data. That picture makes it look old, weak, wornout and obsolete. Folks on this forum and on the Swede forum seem to see it quite differently.

The .35 Whelen has both the history of wildcatting and of course now 25 years of modern-rifle legitimacy. Of course, for some the mystery is always interesting in and of itself. A modern rifle in 9.3x57 would be fun to work with. IIRC, there was a fellow on this forum who had one built up but I can't remember the action make.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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DarylS
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Re: 35 Whelen vs 9.3x57 ? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #106054 - 26/05/08 01:02 AM

Quote:

Landy, good point.

The lack of case volume in the x57 might be made up for by expansion ratio advantage, but the external ballistic advantage would be to the .35 with its better sectional density. All small advantages, but at the velocities you are quoting, 225/2700 I wonder; could a 9.3x57 safely reach that speed?




;
:9.3 - that indeed is my point exactly. The larger bullet diameter makes up virtually equally for the lower case capacity, as I indicated in the post above. Sorry if it was not clear what I meant.
: It is apples to oranges to compare the .35 Whelen with the 9.3x62, due to the 62's much larger case capacity as well as greater expansion ratio. The 62mm case must be compared to the .35 Whelen Improved or the .375/06 Ack.Improved to compare apples with apples, which would bracket the 9.3x62mm perfectly - one slower and one faster with same bullet weights.
: Thus, given same actions, the 9.3x57 would make about 2,700fps with the same 225gr. bullet although the BC would be lower at something just over .320. Therefore, given it's .375" BC of .320 and set 3" high @ 100yards, it would have a 228yard zero and be a whole 6.9" low at 300yards.
: Given a ballistic coefficient of .380 for the .358 335gr., @ the bullet set 3" high at 100yards, it would be zero'd at 234yards and only 6.0" low at 300yards.
Why THAT's almost a whole inch. I'd not call that enough to even ponder about.
: I should add to this, that with similar weight bullets, the 9.3x57 is slightly inferior to the .35 Whelen, when the '57' is used in a 96-type action, but not in a 98. This inferiority amounts to only about 100fps, perhaps 150fps with mighter bullets, but not at all with 300gr. ones. Since game results do not differ with 100fps to 200fps impact speeds in most cases, I'd say they're about equal on game. The even smaller .358 Wincester, with chosen loads and lighter bullets also equates quite nicely but it's about done at around 2,250fps with 250's.

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Daryl


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Landy
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Re: 35 Whelen vs 9.3x57 ? [Re: DarylS]
      #106073 - 26/05/08 05:22 AM

I do not know if the 9.3 will launch a 225 at 2700, if it were available or remanufactured; but this is about tops for a .350RM (20" barrel) with even a bit more capacity than a standard .35W. The NP 225 that I am using as my general purpose .358 has a BC of .430. I think that the .35s vs.the 9.3s results in the same conclusion that the .33s vs. .35s debate does the smaller bore can pretend to be a longer range smallbore for medium game better than the larger bore. Using a medium to do a mediums job they will all be very close for near capacity cases at like pressures. The .35 in any case from the X57 to WSM is a great mimic from .38 spcl to .35 Rem. to full throttle with with readily available bullets suited to those velocities.

The 9.3s are great mediums that and the svelte little M46 are why I own a 9.3x57, but I just do not see them as being as versitle of a mimic as the .35s. Only a certain type of reloading loon even cares about such things, but some here are even "sicker" than me and even make bullets from other diameters and spent cases.

The .350RM and the .35W use their expansion ratio and essentially equal capacity to give you a sort of freebie of more bullet in that that they launch bullets of like SD and BC as an '06 at like velocities. The 9.3x57 as you point out, if loaded to the like pressure in like rifles, can use ER to compensate for less capacity; but BC and SD suffer.

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9.3x57
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Re: 35 Whelen vs 9.3x57 ? [Re: Landy]
      #106075 - 26/05/08 05:45 AM

Quote:

Only a certain type of reloading loon even cares about such things, but some here are even "sicker" than me and even make bullets from other diameters and spent cases.



Hey, I resemble that!!

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LarrysGrip
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Re: 35 Whelen vs 9.3x57 ? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #124670 - 21/01/09 02:28 AM

Quote:

The big advantage of the .375's for 9.3 shooters, at least here in my parts, is that there are a lot of .375's available, many of which are pretty inexpensive, versus a very limited supply of more expensive 9.3's. The .375's make the 9.3 a very viable "plinker" almost!



There you go. My M146 HVA could be the perfect paper plinker all the way to Cape Buffalo. I'm getting more excited about this manageable beast!

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DarylS
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Re: 35 Whelen vs 9.3x57 ? [Re: LarrysGrip]
      #124689 - 21/01/09 07:23 AM

What's a rifle looney? I don't know, however in the past and somewhat present, I've been playing with a variety of bullets that can be made from 'other' stuff. Here, we have, left to right:
:- a 510gr. soft point made from a shortened .303 case and filled with WW metal for a very hard core. It is a penetrating bullet.
:- same bullet compostion and weight, retained weight 420gr., depth of penetration in a green Fir railway tie @ -40 degrees, lengthwise 14 3/4". It went through 2 3" diameter 'pitch knots' hard as glass. What's this mean- Not sure, but there is little I wouldn't poke one at. Nope, can't think of an animal it wouldn't 'do' as a hard- soft.IMHO
:- same 'type' but made from a .250 Savage case, same weight initially but with pure lead core. Retained weight 480gr. 12" penetration same backstop - end-grain Fir tie, same day as previous bullet - but only 1, 3" diameter glass-hard pitch-filled knot. What's it mean? terific weight retention due to pure lead core - excellent expansion too - great bullet for any north american game and most of what Africa has to offer.IMHO
:- .40S&W case - perfect for making .44 mag and .444 Marlin bullets.
:- 340gr. .375 made from shortened .223 case. These went into 1 3/4" at 100 meters from my 9.5x68 - 2,350fps.
:- same bullet pure lead core - 29" of pine.)meaning- I don't know but what a terrific North American bullet)
:- experimental 220gr. .375 for .375Winchester Levergun. didn't get around to trying them.
:- 3/8" copper tubing - cut off with dull pipecutter leaves a huge flashing on the cut which almost closes the base. It has been removed form the top of the 'jacket'. Simply pour in the core with WW+tin and a bit of flux helps bond the core - good hard bullet. Use 50/50 solder for an extra bonded HARD bullet.
:- last is a .30M1 Carbine case, just waiting to be filled for a heavy bulelt load in any .358 calibre rifle. Shortend to adjust bullet weight.

note, soem bulelts made from some cases need to be run through a die to reduce the diameter a tich - ie: standard brass (.469") used to make .458 bullets. .22-250, .250 Savage are easier on the dies. .303 and .30/40's only need rim removed. The .40S&W must be mic'd. Some made need reducing, not others. .223's for .375's and .30M1's for .358's are fine as-is.

I've never seen a rifle looney, I don't even know what a rifle looney looks like.



--------------------
Daryl


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450_366
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Re: 35 Whelen vs 9.3x57 ? [Re: DarylS]
      #124700 - 21/01/09 08:42 AM

Quote:

What's a rifle looney? I don't know, however in the past and somewhat present, I've been playing with a variety of bullets that can be made from 'other' stuff. Here, we have, left to right:
:- a 510gr. soft point made from a shortened .303 case and filled with WW metal for a very hard core. It is a penetrating bullet.
:- same bullet compostion and weight, retained weight 420gr., depth of penetration in a green Fir railway tie @ -40 degrees, lengthwise 14 3/4". It went through 2 3" diameter 'pitch knots' hard as glass. What's this mean- Not sure, but there is little I wouldn't poke one at. Nope, can't think of an animal it wouldn't 'do' as a hard- soft.IMHO
:- same 'type' but made from a .250 Savage case, same weight initially but with pure lead core. Retained weight 480gr. 12" penetration same backstop - end-grain Fir tie, same day as previous bullet - but only 1, 3" diameter glass-hard pitch-filled knot. What's it mean? terific weight retention due to pure lead core - excellent expansion too - great bullet for any north american game and most of what Africa has to offer.IMHO
:- .40S&W case - perfect for making .44 mag and .444 Marlin bullets.
:- 340gr. .375 made from shortened .223 case. These went into 1 3/4" at 100 meters from my 9.5x68 - 2,350fps.
:- same bullet pure lead core - 29" of pine.)meaning- I don't know but what a terrific North American bullet)
:- experimental 220gr. .375 for .375Winchester Levergun. didn't get around to trying them.
:- 3/8" copper tubing - cut off with dull pipecutter leaves a huge flashing on the cut which almost closes the base. It has been removed form the top of the 'jacket'. Simply pour in the core with WW+tin and a bit of flux helps bond the core - good hard bullet. Use 50/50 solder for an extra bonded HARD bullet.
:- last is a .30M1 Carbine case, just waiting to be filled for a heavy bulelt load in any .358 calibre rifle. Shortend to adjust bullet weight.

note, soem bulelts made from some cases need to be run through a die to reduce the diameter a tich - ie: standard brass (.469") used to make .458 bullets. .22-250, .250 Savage are easier on the dies. .303 and .30/40's only need rim removed. The .40S&W must be mic'd. Some made need reducing, not others. .223's for .375's and .30M1's for .358's are fine as-is.

I've never seen a rifle looney, I don't even know what a rifle looney looks like.





I cant even begin imagin the amount of round one must put down ones rifles before going thru all that work, but a rifle loonie, hardly

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Post deleted by NitroX [Re: 450_366]
      #124741 - 21/01/09 09:54 PM



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DarylS
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Re: 35 Whelen vs 9.3x57 ? [Re: ]
      #124790 - 22/01/09 03:40 AM

Andreas - thanks for not putting me in the Looney-bin.

My first .458 2", the one I did the 'bullet' work with, was retired after 15,000 rounds. The first .375/06IMP & recipient of my 'special' bullets, was run for about 3,000, maybe 4,000 rounds, then I re-chamberd to take the 8x68S case, becoming the first 9.5x68, then I sold it to a friend who put many moose in the freezers with it. Keith then sold it to his brother who had it magnaported, ran a LOT of ammo through it, then wanted it turned lighter as it was a McGowen magnum #3 taper. The local 'smith' screwed it up so I ended up with it again- now at least 6 or 7 thousand rounds. I bucked 2" off the breech re-threaded and re-chambered it to take a .350 Rem mag opened to .375, only to find the rifling starting some 2" ahead of the new chamber. It was retired, but I still have it. After all it's trials, it still puts 235's, 270's and 300's into 3" @ 100yards, but the individual groups have grown to 1 1/2" each within that 3". It's tired, but still capable of taking moose and elk to 300yards.

Now, I've built a new .375/06IMP, 'found' my old 9.3x62 and have a new to me 9.3x57 M46 Husky with the M94 action. The Husky is strickly for hunting, but I've already been shooting .375" bullets drawn to .367" in 300gr., 235's, 225's and 220's, as well as 232gr. Normas, 270gr. Speers and 286gr. Privi's. Took a moose with it using a 270gr. Speer @ 2,300fps, 200yard iron sight shot last fall - only hunted one day, back home before dark. That little rifle is now a favourite, of course. Low recoil and good power. It gets 2,175fps with drawn 300gr. and 2,540fps with drawn 225gr., same as 9.3's rifle.

The .35 Whelen can't begin to compare to the 9.3x62, of course, due to the 9.3's "Improved Status" case capacity and greater expansion ratio, however it is much closer to the 9.3x57. The 9.3 M46 won't make 2,600fps with 250gr. bullets and will only make around 2,300fps with 270's - in it's M94 action. In a 98 action which is the M146, it can be improved a measureable amount due to the increased pressure limit of the action, about the same as any .35 Whelen on a Mauser.

So - the real questions are:

Does the increased expansion ratio of the 9.3 make up for it's reduced case capacity compared to the .35 Whelen?

Does the normal long leade and throat of the 9.3x57 help to increase the capacity.

The answer in my opinion is yes as to speed with like weight bullets - BUT - then the question becomes what about bullets, what S ectional Densities? Well, both have heavy bullets now, the 9.3x57 is probably limited to using 300gr. for a BC somewhat over or around .310, while the .35 Whelen's 250gr. Hornady's run arond 305- about equal - and now include the heavy Woodleigh too.

As to speed with like-weight sectional densities, the smaller bore wins that argument, ie: 250gr. .35 vs. 9.3's 300gr. On the other hand, if each was loaded to the same pressure, they would be very close in speed with the same weight bullets, just as when the .338/06 and .35 Whelen compete. If you were to use a 225gr. in the .35, and a 250gr. in the 9.3, the .35 would probably outstrip the larger bore by a hundred fps. maybe more. The game wouldn't know the difference, but it looks impressive on paper.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Chincombrero
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Re: 35 Whelen vs 9.3x57 ? [Re: DarylS]
      #128258 - 27/02/09 02:05 PM

BTW, an obsolete cartridge with very similar ballistics was the .350 Rigby Magnum.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 35 Whelen vs 9.3x57 ? [Re: Chincombrero]
      #128308 - 28/02/09 03:38 AM

It's amazing - the ctgs. we use today, compared with some of the very successful rounds used in Africa, as described by John Taylor. A .330", 300gr. bullet at 2,100fps - the picture of the lioness stopped mid charge with one to her melon. Here, a little case, that lowly 9.3x57 of mine likes a sized down 300gr. HornadyRN or Interbond @ 2,175fps matches it - yes- impressive indeed. The small difference in seciotnal density has little advantage and they are virtual peas in a pod - on game - with a good bullet.

The .35 Whelen will do the same, perhaps 2,225 to 2,300fps with a 300gr. In a new world of shooters, swept up by the latest ultra mangulums - what use are they actually, within the accuracy range of most hunters out there? Use indeed! - so much recoil for little gain, when we have easy to shoot rounds, easy to hit the exact spot needed, which will kill the same game, just as dead - yet destroy so much LESS meat.

Yes - the moderate rounds, almost forgotten and now, not fully appreciated - but - as good as ever.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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9.3x57
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Re: 35 Whelen vs 9.3x57 ? [Re: DarylS]
      #128317 - 28/02/09 04:11 AM

I agree Daryl.

Interesting that the emphasis of the manufacturers has been heavies for a long time.

The 57mm "German" case seems more and more to me to be an amazingly efficient one with modern powders...especially with modern powders.

Historically, this developement in rifle cartridges parallels that of pistol rounds of the 1890-1920 era. Previous cartridges like the .45 S&W and Colt has voluminous cases required by BP, and then the virtually miniature .45 ACP came along, allowed by the advent of smokeless to produce very similar ballistics.

For the tinkerer, or gun company looking for new rounds to sell to those stuck at home due to the crunch of dollars, a fleet of mediums based on an improved 57mm case would be neat to see.

A .338, .358, 9.3 and .375 {maybe even a .40!} on such an improved case would fill out the stable.

I know...as if there is any need...

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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