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peter
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WESTLEY RICHARDS 577 / .450 MARTINI-HENRY
      #105404 - 18/05/08 12:11 AM

interesting gun coming up at holts auction this time.





* WESTLEY RICHARDS
A FINE .577 / .450 MARTINI-HENRY BLACK POWDER EXPRESS BOXLOCK EJECTOR DOUBLE RIFLE WITH SPARE 12-BORE SHOT BARRELS, serial no. 15492,
28in. fine damascus rifle barrels with individual fore-end, sight rib, scroll engraved ramp-mounted open sights and leaf sights for 100, 200, 300, 400, 500 and 600 yards with silver-inlaid sighting lines and folding iron sights adjustable from 700 to 1200 yards, scroll engraved ramp mounted bead foresight, rib engraved 'WESTLEY RICHARDS. 178 NEW BOND ST. LONDON.', 'FOR MARTINI CARTRIDGE. SPECIAL METFORD RIFLING', 30in. nitro reproved damascus 12-bore shotgun barrels with individual fore-end, 2 1/2in. chambers, bored approx. 1/4 and 3/4 choke, Anson & Deeley patent treble-grip action with Westley Richards patent toplever, automatic safety with gold-inlaid 'SAFE' detail, best bold acanthus scroll engraving, the underside with shell motifs and a vignette of a lion, the triggerguard with a charging rhino, retaining traces of original colour-hardening and finish, 14 3/8in. highly-figured semi-pistolgrip stock with chequered side panels, sling eyes and border engraved heel and toe plates, weight 9lb. 14oz. (.577 / .450 rifle barrels) and 7lb. 4oz. (12-bore shot barrels), in a leather case (with provision for only one set of barrels).
The rifle / gun would have been completed circa 1896

Other Notes: Please note that the shotgun barrels will require a UK buyer to produce a relevant British shotgun certificate or Registered Firearms Dealer license before they may be released
Estimate £5,000-7,000

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dearmer
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Reged: 14/10/05
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS 577 / .450 MARTINI-HENRY [Re: peter]
      #106668 - 04/06/08 07:30 PM

What's everyones thoughts on this? Wouldn't be my first choice of caliber and I need it about as much as I need a third nipple, but there's something about a hammerless damascus double. Assuming its tight and the wood's in good shape and the bores not pitted what do you think it's worth?

Josh

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS 577 / .450 MARTINI-HENRY [Re: dearmer]
      #106670 - 04/06/08 08:23 PM

I assume you could get brass for the round, what are the ballistics for the .577-450 BP ? thx, Mike

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS 577 / .450 MARTINI-HENRY [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #106682 - 04/06/08 10:18 PM

Sherman Bell has a discussion of that round in the current Double Gun Journal. His discussion is in the context of a single shot rifle.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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dnovo
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Reged: 21/02/05
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS 577 / .450 MARTINI-HENRY [Re: CptCurl]
      #106690 - 04/06/08 11:23 PM

I own this chambering in a Single Shot. It is relatively easy to load and to shoot. I have other BP doubles so I am not going to bid this gun. It looks decent, but I do not see it bringing substantial money. If you want a nice hammerless DR from this era, no reason to look elsewhere, just don't bid it up to levels where you may find yourself buried in the gun Dave

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels

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Raff
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS 577 / .450 MARTINI-HENRY [Re: dnovo]
      #106704 - 05/06/08 01:07 AM

I owned a Wilkinson DR in 577/450 for a few years,
not as nice as this one though. The rifle will probably
regulate with a 480 gr. lead bullet at about 1300 FPS.
That's where mine worked the best and it if fairly close
to the original British load. Cases can be found and they
tend to last forever.
I do like the shot barrels, that is a nice feature.
Raff

--------------------
.

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peter
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS 577 / .450 MARTINI-HENRY [Re: Raff]
      #106709 - 05/06/08 01:30 AM

i think that this should sell for no more than 5000£ or 10000$, it will proberly go higher though with the WR name because it is hot in the states right now.

just MHO

peter

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JabaliHunter
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS 577 / .450 MARTINI-HENRY [Re: peter]
      #106781 - 05/06/08 07:05 PM

I'd be surprised if it didn't make the top end of Holt's estimate (just from past experience, not having seen the gun though), but don't forget the VAT and buyers premium...

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dearmer
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS 577 / .450 MARTINI-HENRY [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #106787 - 05/06/08 10:50 PM

Thanks for the replies guys. I agree that it looks good in the pictures and if it checks out the same I wouldn't have a problem paying 5000 GBP for it. I tend to think it may go higher though and not sure if it's worth chasing especially since I don't need it.

Anyone going to be at the Auction? I'm in Afghanistan right know and won't be able to make it myself. Could do a telephone bid but that will add a few hundred to the price of the rifle in toll charges.

Josh

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS 577 / .450 MARTINI-HENRY [Re: dearmer]
      #106797 - 06/06/08 12:00 AM

Dearmer, I am going to the preview on 17th and will be phone bidding on a few items. I can have a look for you. If you wanted me to bid on your behalf no problem. f you want to PM me pls feel free to do so, best, Mike

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dearmer
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS 577 / .450 MARTINI-HENRY [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #106917 - 07/06/08 02:15 AM

Thanks Mike. PM sent.

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peter
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS 577 / .450 MARTINI-HENRY [Re: dearmer]
      #106938 - 07/06/08 06:47 AM

i will be there both for the prewiew and the auction, if you need specific's about anything just PM me and i will do my best to get the info to you.

peter

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dnovo
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS 577 / .450 MARTINI-HENRY [Re: peter]
      #106939 - 07/06/08 07:01 AM

It may be a nice gun, but a caveat: Assuming it has to come back to the US, and assuming you need to either bid in person or by phone/agent, why not have someone look into one or more of several similar rifles albeit not a WR for sale in the US. Most are posted at prices from dealers who will normally discount to a 'real' buyer rather than a tire kicker. You may not get the chance to make a 'killing' at an auction where nobody else recognizes a good gun and lets it go cheap, but that is not likely to happen here, and there is no 'return policy if not satisfied' that a reputable dealer will supply.

Plus no customs issues, etc.

Just my two cents, and I could be wrong, but think about it. Dave

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels

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dnovo
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS 577 / .450 MARTINI-HENRY [Re: dnovo]
      #106942 - 07/06/08 07:59 AM

Last thought: Given the exchange rate, you may find a better 'buy' here in the US as many nice DRs are migrating home because of the strength of the pound/euro vs the dollar. Dave

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels

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dearmer
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS 577 / .450 MARTINI-HENRY [Re: dnovo]
      #106968 - 07/06/08 08:01 PM

Thanks Peter. If I decide to go after it I'll PM you for a peek at it. The more eyes the better.

Dave. I agree totally about the price points. I have no illusions that I will get a steal on it. In fact I'm pretty sure it will make the high estimate and I don't think it is worth that. Also have the added hassle of doing the import. Even though it's pre 1898 it's still a PITA. Especially when I'm not in the US at the moment. On the other hand you can't win if you don't play.

I admit that I don't spend all of my time searching all the dealers inventory (mainly because I find too many things I want) but I have seen precious few hammerless, damascus, double rifles around. I could give two shits that it's a WR, I already own 4 (shotguns). If you know of something comparable and in the US I'm all ears.

Thanks all. Keep the comments coming.

Josh

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dnovo
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS 577 / .450 MARTINI-HENRY [Re: dearmer]
      #106974 - 07/06/08 09:45 PM

I think both Jack Puglisi and Monty Whitley have a few on their lists. Both are stand up guys, their descriptions are good, and they will listen to a reasonable offer. Dave

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels

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b1acksmith
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS 577 / .450 MARTINI-HENRY [Re: dnovo]
      #107039 - 09/06/08 06:08 AM

If you do go for it, drop over to the British Militaria Forum to find out about loads, etc.

http://pub182.ezboard.com/bbritishmilitariaforums

We talk all sorts of .577, from MH to Sniders to doubles

--------------------
Ross

"The problems we face cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them." Albert Einstein

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peter
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS 577 / .450 MARTINI-HENRY [Re: b1acksmith]
      #107712 - 19/06/08 10:27 PM

WOW somebody really wanted this gun, because it just went for 11.500,- £ + buyers commision
that would put it around 27.000,- us$

damn

peter

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS 577 / .450 MARTINI-HENRY [Re: peter]
      #107715 - 19/06/08 11:29 PM

That's amazing!

The USD is tanked, but still, £11,500 plus buyer's premium is a heck of a lot of money for a black powder boxlock.

The market has gone wild. That's the only explanation.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Mike_Bailey
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS 577 / .450 MARTINI-HENRY [Re: peter]
      #107716 - 19/06/08 11:30 PM

I was on the telephone line Peter,listenng to the auction. Dearmer in Afghanistan wanted it. I phoned him up with a report, I wonder if he bought it ? best. Mike

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS 577 / .450 MARTINI-HENRY [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #107717 - 19/06/08 11:36 PM

What percentage is the buyer's premium?

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Mike_Bailey
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS 577 / .450 MARTINI-HENRY [Re: CptCurl]
      #107720 - 20/06/08 12:13 AM

20% amigo, best, Mike p.s. I bought a nice Sable head !! hopefully shoot my own next year

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS 577 / .450 MARTINI-HENRY [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #107725 - 20/06/08 01:30 AM

A total of £13,800 with the 20%.

Whew!

According to the Yahoo currency converter that's $27,200 and change! A little rich for my blood! I'm sure it's a beautiful gun, and I envy the person who will be the new owner.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS 577 / .450 MARTINI-HENRY [Re: CptCurl]
      #107726 - 20/06/08 01:31 AM

There's only one bright aspect to this, assuming the buyer is in the U.S. It's an antique, so comes in duty free (I think).

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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dearmer
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Re: WESTLEY RICHARDS 577 / .450 MARTINI-HENRY [Re: peter]
      #107758 - 20/06/08 02:41 PM

Huh? It sold for 8000 GBP. Not 11,500.

I did want it but even 8000 was more than I thought it worth. My cutoff was 7000.

I'd also like to publicly thank Mike for taking a look at it for me and calling with the details. It takes a good man to do something like that for a complete stranger. Thanks Mike.

Josh

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