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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing

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348
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Reged: 24/03/08
Posts: 6
Loc: western pa. u s a
regulation on rem double rifles
      #105264 - 16/05/08 10:43 AM

has anyone tried the regulation on the Bacal sxs rifles that are coming into the states now.we shot on and it was 12in off ou &down 5 in on windage .there is adj wheel to help the widage.has anyone else tried any of these rifles thank you.

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tarawa
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Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Re: regulation on rem double rifles [Re: 348]
      #105268 - 16/05/08 11:18 AM

I am waiting for mine to be delivered. I have shot my O & U and found the sights to be lacking, making any regulation nearly impossible. I mounted a scope on it tonight.
If the SxS has that AK-47 style post front sight, then a scope is the only way to go.
What grain bullets were you using? Did the barrels hit together? It sounds more like a sighting in problem, unless of course you are talking about where one barrel is hitting compared to the other.
George

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348
.224 member


Reged: 24/03/08
Posts: 6
Loc: western pa. u s a
Re: regulation on rem double rifles [Re: tarawa]
      #105352 - 17/05/08 07:46 AM

the barrels did not hit in the same place. the right bbl was 3 in left & 7" high the left bbl was 2" right &4 " low shot with 15o gr ammo also scope sight eyes not what usto be.there is a regulation wheel between the bbs to corect the windage worked very well but tuchey.the rifles seem to becoming avable we had 3 come in to the shop this week joe

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tarawa
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Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Re: regulation on rem double rifles [Re: 348]
      #105374 - 17/05/08 12:51 PM

Mine arrived at my FFL and I will pick it up in the morning. I hope it shoots good enough to hit a hog or a deer at 75 yards or so.

Where in Western Pa are you. I lived in West Newton before moving to the Sunshine State.

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tarawa
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Reged: 21/10/07
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Loc: South Florida
Re: regulation on rem double rifles [Re: tarawa]
      #105457 - 18/05/08 12:18 PM

I received the Remington today. Well made as Baikals go. The Russians like their guns like they like their woman...stout and strong! I am curious to see if one can actually zero these in to shoot a group on paper.

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348
.224 member


Reged: 24/03/08
Posts: 6
Loc: western pa. u s a
Re: regulation on rem double rifles [Re: tarawa]
      #105521 - 18/05/08 11:47 PM

let me know how your rifle shootes mine was not regulated very well but it is now shooting 2" at 100yards which I feel is ok for a rifle like this. the triggers could stand some work did not put a scale on them as yet but they ars 8 lb or more with creep but will work on that later. I live about 50 mi.north of Pittsburga Joe

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tarawa
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Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Re: regulation on rem double rifles [Re: 348]
      #105734 - 21/05/08 07:42 AM

I am in Florida, but was originally from the Pittsburgh area.

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Birdhunter50
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Reged: 03/06/07
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Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: regulation on rem double rifles [Re: 348]
      #107172 - 11/06/08 01:05 AM

I bought one of the OU's from CDNN just to try and figure out their regulation process. When I got my rifle and first tried shooting it, it was a disaster! The gun's trigger pulls were heavier than the gun's weight! I decided to have a look at them before trying to regulate it and sight it in. They were easy to work on but were very poorly finished. I gently filed off some burrs and stoned them down carefully. That brought them down to a useable 3.5 to 4 pounds. If your gun has terrible trigger pulls, you will not be able to do good work with it.
Next I tried to figure out their regulation system, What they have done is to put a barrel spacer inside the barrel gap at the back sight. It LOOKS like you should be able to rotate it and get more or less spread in between the barrels but nothing could be further from the truth! All it is, is a cylindrical spacer with another end dovetailed to it, that is removeable by depressing an internal spring loaded keeper by inseting a small pin punch or some other device through the hole in the dovetailed piece. Before you do that though, you must rotate the barrel spacer so the slot is up and down, so that the dovetail end can slide off into a milled out depression in the spacer block. It all sounds very complicated, and it was to begin with. Because they didn't send any directions with it to expalin this to the new owner.

After going through all this to get the barrel spacer out, you will find out that it is paralell sided. It is only a spacer! It is in no way an adjustible spacer! I called CDNN about this and they referred me to the importer in Florida, European American Armory Corp. I got ahold of one of their trouble shooters and he gave me nothing but more trouble. He told me that in order to get the gun regulated the spacer would have to be changed by a "qualified gunsmith". He really didn't want to help me at all but after much prodding and taunting on my part, he finally revealed his closely held secret. He told me that the company had other spacers that were available but that I
had to know exactly what I needed. I had already figured out the amount spread needed for the regulation of this gun. The barrel spacer needed to be reduced in diameter by about .100 of an inch to bring the points of impact together. Rather than deal with this Jackass that their company choose to employ as a "trouble shooter", I decide to just fix it myself and be done with it.

I took the material off in two stages, shooting it in between machine operations. I got it to put an upper and a lower together vertically on the same plain, but then they were spread apart right and left about 10 inches on that plain. I needed to figure out a way to adjust the points of impact for left and right. I noticed that the front spacer, which also holds the front sight, was pinned to the top barrel. I drove out that pin and then by holding the barreled action in the vise, I drove the front spacer off the ends of the barrels. The lower barrel is just a slip fit so as to be able to expand and contract seperately from the top barrel. What I found underneath the spacer was that the Russian makers had milled a half circle groove in the top barrel where the crosspin goes! That means that all you have to do to adjust the barrels for line up right and left is to put a flat pry bar between the barrels at the front spacer and pry them over! The crosspin is fitted tight enough to hold them where you stop. This may seem crude to us, but it is simple and it works well. I was concerned at first that the adjustment wouldn't hold after firing it, but it has held up just fine.
A word of caution here is important. Before you clamp the action between your padded vice jaws, the extractors need to be removed. They are easily removed by unscewing the holding screw in the left side of the extractor. Then you have a nice flat sided action to hold on to.

After all this, I mounted a scope on it and proceeded to shoot 2 inch fifty yard, two barrel groups with it. About the only useful info in the booklet that came with the rifle was the fact that the factory had used 9 gram bullets to regulate it with. That figures out about 140 grains. Lacking any 140 grain 30 caliber bullets, I called a friend and he gave me some 150 grain bullets he had bought to load in his 30-30. I made up some moderate loads with those and used them to kill three deer with the gun last winter. One shot apiece and only one moved much after the shot.

These guns look a little crude to our way of thinking, I know I thought so at first, but they are well machined and work out well once you get them regulated. My only complaint is that they are heavy and they have narrow sling swivels on them. I bought an SKS woven and leather sling for mine and it has worked out well. I just wish the companies that are making and selling these would furnish the buyers with more information on how to regulate them and the fact that exrta spacers are Supposed to be available though EAA in Florida! It would have saved me alot of headaches! I predict there will be some of these for sale at bargain prices from guys who can't get them to shoot! Bob H.


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tarawa
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Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Re: regulation on rem double rifles [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #107207 - 11/06/08 09:29 PM

Thanks for the info Bob. I have two of these rifles and will bee shooting them in soon. I am going to stick a laser in the end of the barrel to see where they are pointing before I burn any ammo (I don't reload and factory ammo has really gone up in price. Maybe I will make an adjustable jack screw for mine, similar to the SxS. I was also thinking of a three point ajustable system for the front of the barrel or just shimming it permanantly. WHat scope mounts did you end up using for the gun?

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Birdhunter50
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Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: regulation on rem double rifles [Re: tarawa]
      #107369 - 14/06/08 05:40 AM

tarawa, I didn't like the ones they sent with the gun so I cleaned up the dovetails on the gun and installed some different rings but in order to try and get the scope out a little further, I machined the dovetails clear on out to the front end. That didn't work out well because the front mount kept sliding off the front of the dovetail so I cross drilled it right through the center of the dovetails and installed a crosspin to stop it from moving forward. It worked out well enough and I think it makes the mount look better. I wish I could remember the brand of rings I used but I'm sorry, I don't remember. As I recall, they were nothing special but they have held up well. Bob H.

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348
.224 member


Reged: 24/03/08
Posts: 6
Loc: western pa. u s a
Re: regulation on rem double rifles [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #107509 - 16/06/08 11:33 AM

I thik that cz rings that fit a 11mm rib is what i used on my rifle. have fired 50 rounds so far and they are holding ok .when time is avable would like to make a set of express sights and fit to this rifle. hopefully bettel than the factory sights.to regulate the barrels I made a tool pictured in ellis book for making double rifles on shotgun actions.Joe m.

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tarawa
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Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Re: regulation on rem double rifles [Re: 348]
      #107620 - 18/06/08 04:52 AM

I have several sets of the CZ rings in 1" and 30mm. They are just a bit too high for my liking. The MAK ($$$)rings from Germany are the ticket. Really low and very natural to use on the side by side.

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Birdhunter50
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Reged: 03/06/07
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Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: regulation on rem double rifles [Re: tarawa]
      #108319 - 27/06/08 09:30 PM

Tarawa, Can you give me the address so I can look over these MAK rings? I have been looking for good quality rings that would mount a scope as low as possible on a double rifle. Thanks,Bob H.

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tarawa
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Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Re: regulation on rem double rifles [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #108329 - 28/06/08 01:18 AM

Here is the site. I found the mounts by looking at the English version of their catalogue. They are listed as 12mm dovetail mounts.

http://www.kilic-feintechnik.de/

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tarawa
.333 member


Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Re: regulation on rem double rifles [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #109187 - 07/07/08 09:26 PM

Quote:

I bought one of the OU's from CDNN just to try and figure out their regulation process. When I got my rifle and first tried shooting it, it was a disaster! The gun's trigger pulls were heavier than the gun's weight! I decided to have a look at them before trying to regulate it and sight it in. They were easy to work on but were very poorly finished. I gently filed off some burrs and stoned them down carefully. That brought them down to a useable 3.5 to 4 pounds. If your gun has terrible trigger pulls, you will not be able to do good work with it.
Next I tried to figure out their regulation system, What they have done is to put a barrel spacer inside the barrel gap at the back sight. It LOOKS like you should be able to rotate it and get more or less spread in between the barrels but nothing could be further from the truth! All it is, is a cylindrical spacer with another end dovetailed to it, that is removeable by depressing an internal spring loaded keeper by inseting a small pin punch or some other device through the hole in the dovetailed piece. Before you do that though, you must rotate the barrel spacer so the slot is up and down, so that the dovetail end can slide off into a milled out depression in the spacer block. It all sounds very complicated, and it was to begin with. Because they didn't send any directions with it to expalin this to the new owner.

After going through all this to get the barrel spacer out, you will find out that it is paralell sided. It is only a spacer! It is in no way an adjustible spacer! I called CDNN about this and they referred me to the importer in Florida, European American Armory Corp. I got ahold of one of their trouble shooters and he gave me nothing but more trouble. He told me that in order to get the gun regulated the spacer would have to be changed by a "qualified gunsmith". He really didn't want to help me at all but after much prodding and taunting on my part, he finally revealed his closely held secret. He told me that the company had other spacers that were available but that I
had to know exactly what I needed. I had already figured out the amount spread needed for the regulation of this gun. The barrel spacer needed to be reduced in diameter by about .100 of an inch to bring the points of impact together. Rather than deal with this Jackass that their company choose to employ as a "trouble shooter", I decide to just fix it myself and be done with it.

I took the material off in two stages, shooting it in between machine operations. I got it to put an upper and a lower together vertically on the same plain, but then they were spread apart right and left about 10 inches on that plain. I needed to figure out a way to adjust the points of impact for left and right. I noticed that the front spacer, which also holds the front sight, was pinned to the top barrel. I drove out that pin and then by holding the barreled action in the vise, I drove the front spacer off the ends of the barrels. The lower barrel is just a slip fit so as to be able to expand and contract seperately from the top barrel. What I found underneath the spacer was that the Russian makers had milled a half circle groove in the top barrel where the crosspin goes! That means that all you have to do to adjust the barrels for line up right and left is to put a flat pry bar between the barrels at the front spacer and pry them over! The crosspin is fitted tight enough to hold them where you stop. This may seem crude to us, but it is simple and it works well. I was concerned at first that the adjustment wouldn't hold after firing it, but it has held up just fine.
A word of caution here is important. Before you clamp the action between your padded vice jaws, the extractors need to be removed. They are easily removed by unscewing the holding screw in the left side of the extractor. Then you have a nice flat sided action to hold on to.

After all this, I mounted a scope on it and proceeded to shoot 2 inch fifty yard, two barrel groups with it. About the only useful info in the booklet that came with the rifle was the fact that the factory had used 9 gram bullets to regulate it with. That figures out about 140 grains. Lacking any 140 grain 30 caliber bullets, I called a friend and he gave me some 150 grain bullets he had bought to load in his 30-30. I made up some moderate loads with those and used them to kill three deer with the gun last winter. One shot apiece and only one moved much after the shot.

These guns look a little crude to our way of thinking, I know I thought so at first, but they are well machined and work out well once you get them regulated. My only complaint is that they are heavy and they have narrow sling swivels on them. I bought an SKS woven and leather sling for mine and it has worked out well. I just wish the companies that are making and selling these would furnish the buyers with more information on how to regulate them and the fact that exrta spacers are Supposed to be available though EAA in Florida! It would have saved me alot of headaches! I predict there will be some of these for sale at bargain prices from guys who can't get them to shoot! Bob H.




Bob,
I took your advice about the regulation both vertical and horizontal and the results were respectable for my first time at the range. I was limited to 50 yards, so I don't really know what would be the results as say 75 or 100 yards. I know nothing of balistics. I came up with a fix for the lower barrel windage adjustments without messing with the front sight, so I will keep you posted on my progress.

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Birdhunter50
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Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: regulation on rem double rifles [Re: tarawa]
      #109228 - 08/07/08 07:15 AM

Tarawa,
You should not have to mess with the front sight or the bracket to set your upper and lower barrels for right and left convergence so they come together. The bracket can be simply budged over by using a flat pry bar to rotate the lower barrel around the top barrel.
The front sight /holding bracket will simply rotate around the top barrel because they put a groove partway around it for the crosspin. The mid bracket and the barrel inside it will be another deal altogether.
Good Luck Bob H.


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tarawa
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Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Re: regulation on rem double rifles [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #109245 - 08/07/08 12:31 PM

That is how I got the bottom barrel in line. Just rotated the bottom a bit. I won't have to do this with my new fix.

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