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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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Mike_Bailey
.400 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Round Action
      #104539 - 08/05/08 09:14 PM

Any thoughts on the "newish" Holland round action double rifle from chaps out there ? I saw one last Friday but would like any feedback from folks who might have shot one. At half the price of a Royal is it value ? thanks in advance, Mike

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1980E26
.300 member


Reged: 03/05/05
Posts: 195
Loc: USA
Re: Round Action [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #104540 - 08/05/08 09:37 PM

Mike,

Its like new cars vs old cars. The body styles have become rounded with no definition. Same thing for the round body Holland:( It was developed for a lower price point and a broader market in mind. They are not for me.

Corbin

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dnovo
.333 member


Reged: 21/02/05
Posts: 490
Loc: Chicago & SE Wisconsin
Re: Round Action [Re: 1980E26]
      #104543 - 08/05/08 10:35 PM

May I disagree, in part, with my friend Corbin? First, he is correct that the round action H&H doubles were developed as a lower price alternative to the now very expensive "Royals." They are, if one can forgive the term for an H&H, a 'production' gun with less engraving and less work to produce.

On the other hand, the 'round action' is hardly a new development, as the Dickson round actions go back before the turn of the last century and are avidly sought today. Although far more prevalent in shotguns than double rifles, round actions have been with us for a long time.

The round action DR has been available from McKay Brown, who took over the name and design from Dickson, and has always been available from other double makers, notably the better Italian builders. The latter build them in both hammerless and in some exquisite hammer doubles. I have one of the later, a 9.3X74R built up as a set with a pair of 20ga bbls and engraved by Creative Arts. A beautiful item. I will pull it out of the vault and post some shots in the near future.

If you fancy a round action double, and many of us do, take a look at the new Artisan-grade DR Chapuis has just introduced. Here are some photos:









I think the rifle is very handsome, with upgraded wood and nice detailing, especially the skeleton grip cap. This one is a 30-06/20ga combination. (No, it is not cast on for a left handed shooter. The photo makes it look that way. It has a mild cast off for a right handed shooter.)

Like all Chapuis, the Round Actions are regulated by hand, and by firing and adjusting them, not simply sticking a laser stub in the barrels and 'regulating' them in that fashion. The lowest priced, and newest round action DR on the market and a very nice rifle. (This one is now in transit to Casa Novo.

So, Corbin and I agree to disagree on this one. They are "for me." And they are not "new", simply harder to locate than other styles of DR. Dave

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels

Edited by dnovo (08/05/08 10:41 PM)

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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: Round Action [Re: dnovo]
      #104546 - 08/05/08 11:11 PM

Apples and oranges here. The Holland and Holland Round Action Sidelocks are NOT the Dickson-MacNaughton round action which is a trigger plate action. David McKay Brown builds the Scottish Round Action and not round bodied sidelocks.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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dnovo
.333 member


Reged: 21/02/05
Posts: 490
Loc: Chicago & SE Wisconsin
Re: Round Action [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #104557 - 09/05/08 12:00 AM

You are, of course, correct. I was referring to the external, general appearance which, I thought, was what Corbin was commenting on when he opined about new vs. old style. I was not comparing actions. The only round action sidelocks being produced today -- as far as I am aware and excluding the H&H variation that started this thread -- come from the Italians, and some of those are hammer rifles. The Chapuis shown above is a boxlock. Dave

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels

Edited by dnovo (09/05/08 12:01 AM)

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A10ACN
.300 member


Reged: 30/01/05
Posts: 198
Loc: USA
Re: Round Action [Re: dnovo]
      #104689 - 10/05/08 11:15 PM

Just to add to the confusion (but perhaps shed some light!), the three primary action types, Sidelock, Boxlock, and Round/Trigger Plate, can all be "rounded" (really wish Dickson and/or MacNaughton had picked a more definitive name). Seems most of the early back action Black Powder rifles were rounded on the bottom. This made them trimmmer and more comfortable to carry in one hand. Although early rounded hammerless sidelocks are sometimes seen, the majority of them were more squared on the "bellies". It appears that the boxlocks were less rounded from the beginning perhaps to save labor time/costs. The Scottish trigger plate actions seem to have been rounded from the first. Perhaps because the Highlanders were carrying their rifles more during their stalks through the hills and wanted a more comfortable rifle to carry with one hand? Exceptions existed (some of my favorite BLs are the early rounded Westley DLs), but I believe that is pretty much on track for the historical part.
The new H&H "Round Action" (I really, REALLY wish Holland's had picked ANY other name- What's so wrong with, "New Dominion"??) is a SL which is rounded, both on the action bottom and through the head and wrist of the stock. These were cost saving measures as there is less hand work to fit up an action and stock made as such. What I learned in Vegas is the rifles have a through-bolt running through the stock to reinforce the stock and action. I can see where that is less expensive (and far less expensive than the extended top tang and the full bottom tang of a Royal!) but it should be plenty strong and conceivably make a more rigid and thus more accurate stock to action mating.
I like the new Holland Round Action (not as much as the older unbolstered Royals, though!) and would probably order one if the D%*# dollar wasn't so d*^@ weak! Of course that sparse and course engraving would have to upgraded to something more palatable.
Whew! This post should upgrade me to at least 250 Rook status!!!

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JabaliHunter
.400 member


Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: Round Action [Re: A10ACN]
      #104690 - 10/05/08 11:52 PM

Purdey sidelock shotguns can also be rounded. Not sure about the rifles, but I imagine so...

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Checkman
.333 member


Reged: 15/03/08
Posts: 256
Loc: Idaho
Re: Round Action [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #104775 - 12/05/08 02:37 AM

Well just on a purely emotional level I think it's a good looking design.

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Mike_Bailey
.400 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: Round Action [Re: Checkman]
      #104791 - 12/05/08 04:25 AM

Well I ordered one last week in .500 NE on the condition I can get a couple of upgrades which I am willing to pay for, sideclips and maybe better engraving. Ideal weight ? 12lbs. I would like to hear what any .500 NE doubles folks out there own, weigh. thx, Mike

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bigdog
.375 member


Reged: 05/02/06
Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois
Re: Round Action [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #104847 - 12/05/08 12:34 PM

I think the wood is very nice. I like the whole gun and would be glad to own one.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad

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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Round Action [Re: bigdog]
      #105720 - 21/05/08 06:26 AM

I have a H&H top-lever hammer-gun that is a true round action. With no need to have cocking rods running down the side or ejector mechanics, the action can be made nearly semi-circular.

This photo illustrates the dramatic difference.





--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27022
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Round Action [Re: bonanza]
      #105736 - 21/05/08 08:12 AM

The round H&H's look absolutely fabulous to me. But then, I shoot most anything.- HA!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Mike_Bailey
.400 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: Round Action [Re: DarylS]
      #105765 - 21/05/08 06:18 PM

Bonanza, that is a lovely picture best, Mike

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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Round Action [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #105777 - 21/05/08 10:17 PM

I agree! Two fine rifles.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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