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lancaster
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tiger and the vietnam war
      #104464 - 07/05/08 09:08 PM

http://ichiban1.org/html/stories/story_46_tiger.htm

I am looking for more stuff about hunting and the vietnam war.

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Re: tiger and the vietnam war [Re: lancaster]
      #105235 - 16/05/08 01:40 AM

Discerning the Tiger!



by Bryan Lagimoniere and Rick Leland, with John (The Mole) Williams and "B" Company Platoon Sergeant Darwin "Scott" Stamper

(Edited by Ray Sarlin)

©Copyright Rick Leland, Scott Stamper and Bryan Lagimoniere, 2006. All Rights reserved.

Reprinted from the 1st Bn (Mech) 50th Infantry website http://www.ichiban1.org/



... if some time when roaming round,
A noble wild beast greets you,
With black stripes on a yellow ground,
Just notice if he eats you.
This simple rule may help you learn
The Bengal tiger to discern.


(Carolyn Well, "How to Tell Wild Animals," Baubles, 1917)


*********************************************************

The Indochinese tiger (Panthera tigris corbetti) was once widely distributed throughout the forest and mountainous areas of Vietnam.

The tiger's reputation as a man-eater is often exaggerated, with only about three out of every thousand tigers ever attacking people, and then usually during retaliation in self-defence when surprised or when they are protecting cubs. But tigers that start hunting domestic animals may take a herder as victim and learn that people are easy prey or even develop a taste for human flesh.

Even the low percentage of man-eaters has been enough to make the tiger responsible for more human deaths than any other predator.

The tiger's well-known fierceness has given it a reputation throughout Asia as an aphrodisiac that is sure to get your mojo moving! In East Asia many tiger parts are considered as powerful aphrodisiacs, including bones, whiskers, fat, liver and even, or should I say especially, the tiger's penis. A bowl of tiger penis soup can fetch $350 in Taiwan and South Korea and is said to have a marvelous effect on one's virility, sexual prowess and performance. Of course, Traditional Chinese Medicine practitioners claim that their practice doesn't include animal prescriptions for sexual stamina: rather they are prescribed for ailments such as arthritis and rheumatism, to suppress pain and to reduce swelling or fevers.

In any case, since the end of the Vietnam wars, tigers have been hunted and harassed to the extent that the Vietnam government estimates that only about 200 tigers are now scattered throughout Vietnam with only about 1,700 surviving tigers in all of Asia. Hunting and trading tigers were banned in 1989, and tigers were declared a rare and completely protected species in 1992.

In fact, May 13, 2002 Agence France Presse reported the first confirmed sighting along the Sino-Vietnamese border in decades when a large tiger appeared with a roar and sent terrified villagers scurrying up trees for safety. There have been only a few scattered sightings of tigers or even tiger tracks in Vietnam since 1990.

While we all know that Vietnam was a very unusual war, I doubt that many people would believe that Vietnam's tiger population was a beneficiary. But during the Vietnam wars, it was claimed that tiger populations and tiger attacks increased dramatically due to the many unburied bodies. After all, tigers are known scavengers that feed at old kills, whether their own or not. There were also many tiger sightings by U.S. troops.

One of the most unusual tiger stories to arise was the case of the 3rd Recon Battalion Marine who survived a tiger attack while on patrol in Quang Tri Province in 1968, near where a Marine had allegedly* been killed by a tiger in November 1967. The 400 pound man-eating tiger attacked swiftly and silently, and the first warning the six-man patrol had was screaming from one of the four sleeping Marines. Startled while feeding on the man by the other Marines, the tiger started dragging its prey away before it was killed. The lucky victim was medivaced suffering lacerations and bites on the neck.

In another incident in 1969, a Marine in an ambush position in dense bush felt a tug on his leg and saw a large shape in the black night. After radioing in movement around them and despite being 100% alert, the tiger stealthily returned and grabbed another patrol member before being blown away by five excited Marines. Their buddy was released just slightly the worse for wear. According to SOP, they relocated their ambush, taking the dead 400 pound tiger with them so that they could extract it the next day. Alas, the monsoon meant that choppers couldn't get up that day, so their focus shifted to preserving the corpse before it started rotting. Fortunately, one of the fellows in the rear radioed that tannic acid, used for curing hides, was contained in urine. The next day, a very smelly carcass made it back to base still in shape for photographs.

Around the third week of May 1970, two weeks after the LZ Betty perimeter was penetrated by enemy soldiers in two places, Frenchy Lagimoniere and two other soldiers of B Company, 1st Battalion (Mechanized), 50th Infantry were assigned to pull night guard duty on Bunker 4. They manned the bunker at around 6 p.m., checked their ammunition, did their prep work and settled in for the night. At around 11 p.m., Frenchy was pulling duty and heard some noise coming from out in front of the bunker. He alerted the others and searched carefully through the starlight scope to find the source.

He remembered that night, "As I was looking for whatever made the noise a dark blur flashed in front of my lens followed by a white blur. This happened a couple of times while I was trying to get a fix on what was going on. Then I caught sight of a lizard about 6 feet long trying to scurry away from something. As I looked to my right, I saw a tiger crouched down lying in the elephant grass. Every time the lizard would move the tiger would pounce on it and slap it around like a toy animal. This happened over and over again. I pointed this out to the other guys on the bunker and we took turns watching. During the half hour this went on, others from the greenline also observed the tiger. Then it was gone."

It's a shame that the tiger hadn't come by a few weeks earlier while the NVA were sneaking up and played "cat and mouse" with Charlie.

Rick Leland of B Company now picks up the story. "A day or two later, we were on patrol in our APCs in a area of fairly heavy woods and underbrush about 25 kilometers outside of LZ Betty. Late in the afternoon our LT saw something up ahead of us and told as all to stop. I remember seeing a flash of orange and we all agreed that it was a tiger! Man, we were excited and we thought and talked about it all the rest of the day.

"That night we set out a mechanic ambush. Late that night we heard it go off, so next morning we hurried out but all we saw was a blood trail. The LT and our platoon sergeant agreed we should stick around. We patrolled in the area that day and then set out another ambush close to the last one. Well, that night we heard it go off again so the next morning one APC went out to investigate. They radioed back and said we would not believe what they had! It was the tiger, which had walked into the trip wire and been killed outright!

"Soon the word spread and we had a bunch of choppers carrying Brass and other higher ups flying in all morning long. We all took pictures and then hauled the tiger off on an APC." Frenchy added, "Everybody in the world wanted to take a picture of that cat."

John (The Mole) Williams, a B Company APC driver in the field at the time, added, "After the tiger was killed in a night claymore trip wire ambush, we wanted to take it back to base on the APC, but they made us take it off the track. By the time we got to camp dragging it with a cable or rope, all we had left was a tiger tail to talk about."

Rick observed, "I was excited and sad at the same time to see such a beautiful animal dead. It left me thinking that nothing escapes war. When I got back to States my Mother had one of the pictures blown up and I have it on my wall today."

Photographs of B Company's Tiger, 1970.


Rick Leland's humorous explanation.


Ray Wilford's version.


In the end, it's all the same.

*********************************************************


Staff Sergeant Darwin "Scotty" Stamper

We started using mechanical ambushes and thought they were great because we could set out a half dozen Claymore Mines on a trail and rig them to fire all at once. We could easily go somewhere and set up a night position and wait. If there was an explosion that night we could go back the next day and recover the bodies of the enemy. I can remember one night we had set out some mechanical ambushes and set up that night and waited for something to happen. Well it did! We heard an explosion in the distance and knew we had bagged something, either a VC or an animal. The next morning the platoon got up and we went out to the ambush site and found the body of a dead VC. The platoon Leader, 1st Lt. James MacQueen, and myself decided to set up another mechanical ambush around the body hoping to catch any of the dead VCs unit who might come to recover the body. We set up close by.

We heard another explosion early in the morning and waited for the sun to come up. When we went in to check out the kill zone we found the body of a very large beautiful tiger! He must have decided to drag off the body of the dead VC for a snack, but he set off the ambush. There wasn´t much damage to the pelt and it looked as though the concussion from the six Claymore Mines killed him. We put him on the front of the track behind the trimvane as you see from the pictures. We had planned to take him back with us and have a rug made out of the pelt and hang it in the club.

Well, by about 10 A.M. he started getting pretty "ripe" and we did not have anyone that could dress him out, or wanted to. Just as I was considering dumping him a chopper started circling over us while we were on the move and the pilot called on our frequency and asked me if that was a tiger on the front of the APC. I told him it was and he asked me what we were going to do with it. I told him what we had planned to do with it but that it was starting to get pretty ripe. He asked me what we wanted for it and I told him he could have it for 15 cases of beer to be delivered when we got back to Phan Thiet. We made the deal and we secured an LZ and he came in and got the tiger. When we got back to the Company Area we had the 15 cases of beer waiting for us!


©Copyright Rick Leland, Scott Stamper and Bryan Lagimoniere, 2006. All Rights reserved.

Reprinted from the 1st Bn (Mech) 50th Infantry website http://www.ichiban1.org/


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lancaster
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Re: tiger and the vietnam war [Re: NitroX]
      #105314 - 16/05/08 09:18 PM

I wonder to find no material about this war. there are so many american's in vietnam in the years from 1960 to 1975 and a lot of them where hunters. it was not allways battle time.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
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lancaster
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Re: tiger and the vietnam war [Re: lancaster]
      #105414 - 18/05/08 04:24 AM

http://www.lairweb.org.nz/tiger/maneating13.html

Stories from Vietnam:
Tiger attacks increased during the Vietnam war; this was due to the frequency with which bodies lay unburied. Despite claims to the contrary, tigers will scavenge and feed at old kills, be they their own, or someone else's. Having developed a taste for human flesh they would then attack soldiers quite readily. The first stories illustrate some of the many tiger encounters experienced in during the Vietnamese war. Tiger Killed Near Vietnam Border:Quang Tri, Vietnam--A man-eating tiger was killed by members of a small recon patrol when the 400 pound cat attacked a 3rd Reconnaissance Battalion Marine in the northwestern corner of South Vietnam. The Marine who was attacked is listed in a satisfactory condition at a military hospital in Quang Tri. Identification is being withheld pending notification of the next of kin. The six man recon team was on an observation mission near Fire Support Base Alpine, about six miles east of the Laotian Border, when it encountered the tiger. The team had completed its assigned mission and was waiting to be heli-lifted from the area, when the incident occurred. Bad weather conditions had prevented their immediate extraction and the team had posted a two-man radio watch while the others settled down to sleep. The tiger struck swiftly and silently. "Suddenly I heard somebody scream",said PFC Thomas E. Shainline, "then somebody else was yelling, it's a tiger, its a tiger!" PFC Roy Regan, who had been sleeping next to the victim recalled, "I jumped up and saw the tiger with his mouth around my partner. ""All I could think about was to get the tiger away from him. I jumped at the tiger and the cat jerked his head and jumped into a bomb crater 10 meters away, still holding his prey." The Marines quickly followed the tiger to the crater and opened fire on the attacking beast. They could not be sure which one of them actually killed the tiger, since they all fired at it. Once hit, the tiger released his prey and the man staggered out of the bomb crater. "He looked dazed and he asked what happened", recalled PFC Maurice M. Howell. The injured Marine was given first aid treatment and a Marine CH-46 helicopter arrived to pick up the injured Marine, the rest of the team and the dead tiger. The injured Marine was rushed to the 3rd Medical Battalion Hospital at Quang Tri, suffering from lacerations and bites on the neck. The tiger, measuring nine feet from head to tail, was transported to the 3rd Reconnaissance Battalion headquarters. The incident took place about ten miles south of the demilitarized zone near a spot where a young Marine was slain by a man-eating tiger Nov. 12. Military authorities had sent out a Marine contingent and two professional South Vietnamese tiger hunters three weeks ago to find the killer tiger and three others believed in the area, but the hunt failed. Note: There is some debate about the date of this attack and I have had several e-mails regarding this. Some stories claim it was 1968, but soldiers stationed in Vietnam at the time think it occurred in November of 1967, though the story did not go to print until January 1968.
tanning the tiger:
During one night in 1968, a 6-man US Marine patrol were taking turns to rest. They were well hidden from the Vietnamese in dense bush, but were particularly uptight with visibility down almost to nil.
Suddenly, one of the patrol members felt pulling on his leg. He could just discern a large shape standing beside him before it slipped into the darkness.Over the radio the patrol leader reported the team had movement around them. He was now faced with the decision of remaining still and quiet, or taking aggressive action.The next transmission over the radio was anything but quiet and indicated the group was also anything but still. The black shape had returned, grabbed a patrol member and the Marines had opened fire. It was then they discovered the shape belonged to a huge tiger.
As the shots would surely have attracted unwanted attention, the patrol was advised to immediately clear the area and proceed to a helicopter extract Landing Zone. They did so -- after negotiating over the radio about taking the tiger.The terrain was tough.
The tiger weighed 400 pound.The weather was so bad it was debatable if the team could successfully be extracted. Conditions at the time were monsoonal.After a great deal of effort and struggling, the increased danger involved in trying to evade enemy patrols, while carrying a 400 pound tiger, made it clear that the entire animal could not be carted out.The patrol leader made the decision to skin the cat and the team made it to their pickup point. In the weather conditions the helicopter was unable to land forcing the team to keep on the move.After two more humid days their tiger hide was starting to deteriorate. The next radio exchange between the patrol and base went something like this:
Patrol Leader: "I need to know how to get out with this tiger skin intact." Bn CP: "There is a Marine here who grew up on a farm and says he knows a bit about tanning skins" Patrol Leader: "So?" Bn CP: "He said you have to pour tannic acid on the skin." Patrol Leader: "And where in the hell do I get tannic acid way out here?" Bn CP: "He said urine has tannic acid in it. Piss on the tiger!" Patrol Leader: "Roger."
The vision comes to mind of 6 bone tired Marines standing in a circle around the tiger skin and tanning it.
The next day, the weather broke and the team were extracted. Back at base they posed proudly for the photographers.Within the next 48 hours decomposition claimed the remains of the tiger and it smelt positively horrible.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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lancaster
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Re: tiger and the vietnam war [Re: lancaster]
      #105415 - 18/05/08 04:38 AM

more about the first story from www.3rdrecon.org/tiger.htm

A man-eating tiger was killed by members of a small recon patrol when the
400 pound cat attacked a 3rd Reconnaissance Battalion Marine in the
northwestern corner of South Vietnam...


The tiger, measuring at least nine feet from head to tail was transported
to the 3rd Reconnaissance Battalion headquarters.

After examining the huge beast, MajGen. Raymond G. Davis, Commanding
General, 3rd Marine Division and Assistant Division Commander, BrigGen.
Robert B. Carney, Jr., congratulated the reconnaissance team for killing
the animal. It is believed to be the same animal that killed a Marine
earlier in the vicinity of Fire Support Base Alpine.

Also on hand to examine the beast, now very still and hanging from a ten
foot scaffold was Phan Van Sang, a professional Vietnamese tiger hunter,
who had participated in a tiger hunt, organized following the first tiger
incident six weeks before.

Sang told the Marines that he had killed five tigers in his 20 years of
hunting, but that he had never seen one as large as the man-eating cat. He
expressed the belief that the tiger might very well be the same cat that
attacked the other Marine. He explained that large cats usually work only
in pairs and tend to hunt in the same area.

For the recon team, it was a memorable experience, marred only by the
injury to one of its members. But as they looked at the strung-up 400 pound
man eater, they knew that this tiger would never attack another Marine.

note: The injured Marine was Richard P. Goolden who was medically retired
as a result of the attack.











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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: tiger and the vietnam war [Re: lancaster]
      #105481 - 18/05/08 03:28 PM

Quote:

The vision comes to mind of 6 bone tired Marines standing in a circle around the tiger skin and tanning it.
The next day, the weather broke and the team were extracted. Back at base they posed proudly for the photographers.Within the next 48 hours decomposition claimed the remains of the tiger and it smelt positively horrible.




What a waste, not to skin it and salt it as a skin, at least back at the base.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Nakihunter
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Re: tiger and the vietnam war [Re: NitroX]
      #105490 - 18/05/08 05:50 PM

The number of tiger & leopard skins that have gone waste due to poor care would be scary.

Firstly, I suspect that 30% or more or the cats were wounded and lost. Considering that India, Ceylon, Burma, Malaya, Thailand & Indo-China have thick jungle with hot humid conditions, the carcass starts rotting in about 4 to 8 hours if the guts are not removed. Even salted skins rot because of high humidity & the agroscopic (attracting water) property of salt. Also take into account that the most commonly used salt was crystallised sea salt & the chances of rain was always on the cards, wet skins would have been the rule rather than the exception. I have lost small game & deer skin due to wet weather even though the skins were under a roof.

My dad's 4 cats in the early to mid 50's had 4 different results. The first tiger was skinned & tanned locally & was with my grandfather for years. It was last seen folded & put away in a trunk. No one has seen or heard of it since the late 60's. The second tiger was shot just on dark & charged into thick bamboo. It was recovered the next day and ruined. Only the teeth, claws & whiskers were recovered. One leopard was well tanned & processed by Van Ingins of Mysore. This trophy still hangs on the wall of my cousin's house in India. It was presented to Grand-dad & inherited by a cousin! The second leopard was not salted & dried properly & all the hair slipped out when it was processed by Van Ingins.

In those days & also in the case of the story in this thread, transportation was not very easily available. People often had to walk miles to the nearest road & then take an ox cart to the bus stop!

Even today, the thrill of seeing a tiger in the wild is as much to do with the remote location as it is the animal's mystique!

--------------------
Always shoot through the target & not just at it.


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lancaster
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Re: tiger and the vietnam war [Re: NitroX]
      #105517 - 18/05/08 11:26 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The vision comes to mind of 6 bone tired Marines standing in a circle around the tiger skin and tanning it.
The next day, the weather broke and the team were extracted. Back at base they posed proudly for the photographers.Within the next 48 hours decomposition claimed the remains of the tiger and it smelt positively horrible.




What a waste, not to skin it and salt it as a skin, at least back at the base.




what I understand is that the skin " smelt positively horrible", not that they put into the waste.
there is a pic with the tiger skin on http://www.lairweb.org.nz/tiger/maneating14.html I was not able to copy. maybe someone here can do it.
looking for the date of the last legal tiger hunt in history. remember that the goverment in malaysia hunt problem animals like tiger and elephant's in 2000 but this was not a official trophy hunt.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: tiger and the vietnam war [Re: lancaster]
      #105531 - 19/05/08 03:17 AM

Of course the gentlemen involved also had "other" things to do.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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lancaster
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Re: tiger and the vietnam war [Re: NitroX]
      #206656 - 07/04/12 05:49 AM

on the accuratereloading forum someone had the same idea like me years ago now and collect pictures of tiger shooting from american serviceman in the vietnam war
http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/426108036/m/6871062371





























--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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lancaster
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Re: tiger and the vietnam war [Re: lancaster]
      #276833 - 20/01/16 05:50 PM

a better version of an older pic and a new one




https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/22/f8/5b/22f85b7cbb338c48ec6ef45734926f27.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/5sPsYpL.jpg

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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lancaster
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Re: tiger and the vietnam war [Re: lancaster]
      #337716 - 09/02/20 05:07 PM




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpDnlGT3LxY

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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9.3x57
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Re: tiger and the vietnam war [Re: lancaster]
      #337724 - 10/02/20 12:19 AM

Tiger stripe and tiger!

Also, here's this:

https://www.mitchellrepublic.com/sports/4129786-wiltz-greatest-predatory-animal-them-all

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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9.3x57
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Re: tiger and the vietnam war [Re: lancaster]
      #337726 - 10/02/20 12:33 AM

Quote:

a better version of an older pic and a new one




https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/22/f8/5b/22f85b7cbb338c48ec6ef45734926f27.jpg





You can kind of learn a little bit about this pic from the rifle.

First, it can be fairly well dated from 1966-to-early-68 with the cleaning rod taped to the gun, as that was the heyday of functioning problems caused by the infamous powder switch and before the introduction of the chromed chamber.

Another pic of a cleaning rod strapped to a gun can be found on page 208 in THE BLACK RIFLE.
BR I and II are essential books if you are interested in the development and service use of the M16.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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lancaster
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Re: tiger and the vietnam war [Re: 9.3x57]
      #337730 - 10/02/20 01:50 AM

so it was some kind of muzzle loader hunt with the rod along the rifle.

not enough you go after a tiger with a .223 Rem whats no a dangerous game cartridge at all but you can have a case stick in the chamber any time
must be thrilling

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Ripp
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Re: tiger and the vietnam war [Re: lancaster]
      #337738 - 10/02/20 04:37 AM

Quote:

so it was some kind of muzzle loader hunt with the rod along the rifle.

not enough you go after a tiger with a .223 Rem whats no a dangerous game cartridge at all but you can have a case stick in the chamber any time
must be thrilling






This is a great post...

Good reading info...

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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