Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: POLL - Double Gun Owners

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***

Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

Pages: 1
ThomasEdwards
.300 member


Reged: 04/01/04
Posts: 246
Loc: Newport Beach, CA
POLL - Double Gun Owners
      #10362 - 28/02/04 05:41 PM

nitrox,

...here goes...


DOUBLE GUN OWNERS (please respond as you would wish):

-- how many double rifles do you now own (please specify s-by-s, o-u or drilling), and in what calibres;

-- how many double rifles did you previosuly own (please specify barrel configuration and calibres);

-- do you hunt with your double rifles; if so, what type of game; if not, why not;

-- how long after you took up the sport of shooting/hunting did you catch the double gun 'bug/disease' (no known cure):

-- do you also shoot smooth bore doubles; if so, in what configuration (s-by-s or o-u) and bores;

-- do you hunt with your smooth bore doubles; if so, what type of birds/game;

-- do you also own other actions (turnbolt, single, lever, pump, etc.); if so, in what calibres;

-- would you say that you have followed the natural progression of 'less-but-better' over the years;

-- the three top double gun makers are;

-- the three top double gun hunters/ph's (any generation) are;

-- the three top double gun reference sources are;

-- my next double gun will be (please provide time frame for purchase);

-- my ideal double gun has the following features;

...have fun...



* * * * * * *


...my apologies for the length of the poll...this informal poll is meant to provide a 'thumb-nail sketch' of double gun owners who participate on the nitroexpress.com chat board, and is intended for recreational and novelty purposes only...the poster disclaims any responsibility arising from or connected with this poll...

te


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39247
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: POLL - Double Gun Owners [Re: ThomasEdwards]
      #10507 - 01/03/04 12:14 PM

DOUBLE GUN OWNERS (please respond as you would wish):

-- how many double rifles do you now own (please specify s-by-s, o-u or drilling), and in what calibres;

One, S/S .450 No2 NE WJ Jeffrey. Working on acquiring a couple more, one a (edited for a competition) 9.3mm if I can get it here. The other a larger S/S.

-- how many double rifles did you previosuly own (please specify barrel configuration and calibres);

None. I was a virgin until recently

-- do you hunt with your double rifles; if so, what type of game; if not, why not;

That is its purpose. Feral game, buffalo and similar. Only owned it a short time.

-- how long after you took up the sport of shooting/hunting did you catch the double gun 'bug/disease' (no known cure):

Wanted a double since I was 17 when I saw a chance to buy one. Bought a M98 bolt action instead because it was more practical. Bolt actions are a disease, doubles are the cure. Took me another 20 years to buy one.

I started hunting at about 9 so I guess 8 years.

-- do you also shoot smooth bore doubles; if so, in what configuration (s-by-s or o-u) and bores;

S/S 12g x 3 different guns + S/S .410

-- do you hunt with your smooth bore doubles; if so, what type of birds/game;

Mainly hunting, ducks, pigeons, quail, rabbits, hare, pest birds, pigs

Some clays with the S/S. Don't own a U/O.

-- do you also own other actions (turnbolt, single, lever, pump, etc.); if so, in what calibres;

Yes mostly M98 centrefires plus a lever .308. A couple of single shot Martinis which are still gathering dust.


-- would you say that you have followed the natural progression of 'less-but-better' over the years;

I've alway admired the ideal that a man with a single gun is deadly.



-- the three top double gun makers are;

Merkel, Krieghoff and Chapuis

-- the three top double gun hunters/ph's (any generation) are;

Mark Sullivan (for the reaction )


-- the three top double gun reference sources are;

the mebers of NitroExpress.com
Double Gun Journal (but not enough rifles)
Big Game Rife Club (I think)


-- my next double gun will be (please provide time frame for purchase);

In a day or two but it may start off as a shotgun and end up as a .577



-- my ideal double gun has the following features;

Two barrels, two triggers, two locks

...have fun...

Always do.


--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (02/06/04 04:18 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
475Guy
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: POLL - Double Gun Owners [Re: NitroX]
      #10522 - 01/03/04 02:20 PM

OK, Nitro but the list is pretty long-winded.

I have owned a couple of Merkels. One was new in 470 and the other was 9.3 which was used and traded it. Another was my hunting partner's dad's 475 Jefferys No. 2 which I had to give back to him.

As posted before, I've always been entranced with DB's.

I've never really hunted with one only shot small critters. Targets of opportunity you know.

I've got slew of Ruger big bores and a bunch of leverguns from 357 and up.

I plan to get a Searcy in about a year and am trying to talk my partner's dad out of the 475 J No.2 to get it back.

I just love SXS's and have only handled O/U's.

I think any of the H&H's, Purdeys and maybe Kreighoff's are in the 3.

Top DB hunters are Elmer Keith, Jack Lott and Capstick.

A proper DB should have great wood, nicely done and modest engraving and SXS.

Any reading material concerning DB's in the rifle calibers. So far no shotguns except for duty.


Satisfied Nitro?

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Raff
.300 member


Reged: 12/01/04
Posts: 182
Loc: Texas
Re: POLL - Double Gun Owners [Re: NitroX]
      #10528 - 01/03/04 03:07 PM

Hi guys...
--DR's I own
500-3" BPE, 10 bore, two 16 bore, all SxS
--Previous doubles
an 8, two 12's, two 577 BPE, two .500-3" BPE, .450 BPE, .303, .375 2 1/2", .400/360P. All SxS. Have never owned an O/U, yet.
--Hunting
I use them for hunting pigs in central Calif. but only
because of the 50-80 yard distance. Any further than that
and open sights are useless for my eyes and everything else
I hunt is in the 100-300 yard range.
--I started with DR's 10 years after I started shooting
and hunting, been at it ever since.
--Double Smooth bores-- yes. For everything, trap, skeet, clays and all birds.
--Other rifles. a .30-06 bolt. a .375 mag bolt, a .375 mag
No. 1 and a .450-3 1/4" NE No. 1.
--3 top, but all time. Alex. Henry, H&H, Rigby
--Next, another 8 bore, or bigger.
--have fun. That's the idea.
Glen :

--------------------
.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: POLL - Double Gun Owners [Re: ThomasEdwards]
      #10529 - 01/03/04 04:51 PM

DOUBLE GUN OWNERS (please respond as you would wish):

-- how many double rifles do you now own (please specify s-by-s, o-u or drilling), and in what calibres;

Over 5, from 8 Bore to 303 all SXS

-- how many double rifles did you previosuly own (please specify barrel configuration and calibres);

6-8 mostly 450 and above. All SXS

-- do you hunt with your double rifles; if so, what type of game; if not, why not;

Yes, 90% of all my hunting is with a Double.

-- how long after you took up the sport of shooting/hunting did you catch the double gun 'bug/disease' (no known cure):

Always had it, just couldn't afford it.

-- do you also shoot smooth bore doubles; if so, in what configuration (s-by-s or o-u) and bores;

SXS and O/U 12 and 20

-- do you hunt with your smooth bore doubles; if so, what type of birds/game;

Yes. upland birds. Next month a Turkey maybe.

-- do you also own other actions (turnbolt, single, lever, pump, etc.); if so, in what calibres;

yes, all.

-- would you say that you have followed the natural progression of 'less-but-better' over the years;

more is better. I would never buy a Double I couldn't sell the next day at a profit.

-- the three top double gun makers are;

Now. Purdey, Hambrusch, PV Nelson

-- the three top double gun hunters/ph's (any generation) are;

John Hunter, Bob Langeveld, Nisram of Hyderbad.:)

-- the three top double gun reference sources are;

Shooting the British Double, African Rifles and Cartridges, The Gun and it's Development by Greener.

-- my next double gun will be (please provide time frame for purchase);

?????

-- my ideal double gun has the following features;

Sidelock, London Best Grade, SXS, ejectors, 45 caliber.


--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chasseur
.375 member


Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: POLL - Double Gun Owners [Re: ThomasEdwards]
      #10551 - 02/03/04 02:11 AM

DOUBLE GUN OWNERS (please respond as you would wish):

-- how many double rifles do you now own (please specify s-by-s, o-u or drilling), and in what calibres;

1: SxS Chapuis, in 9.3x74r
-- how many double rifles did you previosuly own (please specify barrel configuration and calibres);

None
-- do you hunt with your double rifles; if so, what type of game; if not, why not;

Yes: black bear, boar, whitetail deer,
-- how long after you took up the sport of shooting/hunting did you catch the double gun 'bug/disease' (no known cure):

Always had the double gun disease. Actually double rifles and double shotguns is what brought me into shooting smokeless powder, I was a dyed in the wool black powder man until I got into double guns. Other actions just don't do it for me.

-- do you also shoot smooth bore doubles; if so, in what configuration (s-by-s or o-u) and bores;

Oh yeah! Shoot a SxS, old French 12 guage, beautiful, made by a Seytre. And as a yound lad, a Stevens 311!!!!

-- do you hunt with your smooth bore doubles; if so, what type of birds/game;

If there were any wild upland birds in the mid-Atlantic region... Grew up shooting ruffed and spruce grouse in Alaska. Love pheasants!! Also those REAL wild chukkars in Hawaii, not that tame preserve crap.

-- do you also own other actions (turnbolt, single, lever, pump, etc.); if so, in what calibres;

I have an old Ruger 77 30-06 that I am currently fixing up. Nice rifle for a bolt...

-- would you say that you have followed the natural progression of 'less-but-better' over the years;

Yep. Getting rid of that old crap, and working down to only about 3-4 guns, two rifles and two shotguns.

-- the three top double gun makers are;

Gaston Rennette, Purdy, Boss

-- the three top double gun hunters/ph's (any generation) are;

Elmer Keith, John Taylor, ...???

-- the three top double gun reference sources are;

Wrights' "Shooting the British Double Rifle," anything by Ross Seyfried, and GT Garwood

-- my next double gun will be (please provide time frame for purchase);
Just coming in, my SxS Seytre shotgun. After that I'll have to hold off for quite some time. Though I thought it might be interesting to have a 7mmx16x16 drilling one day...

-- my ideal double gun has the following features;

SxS, double trigger, well regulated, and fits me.

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
470Rigby
.333 member


Reged: 23/02/04
Posts: 328
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Re: POLL - Double Gun Owners [Re: ThomasEdwards]
      #11521 - 15/03/04 12:42 AM

To put my two-penneth worth in on the three top gumakers! (in descending order); Shotguns - Boss, Purdey, H&H - Double Rifles - Purdey, Rigby, H&H. At least thats how it WAS - can't imagine that the current Rigby outfit is, or ever will be in the same league!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
unspellable
.300 member


Reged: 06/03/04
Posts: 187
Loc: Iowa
Re: POLL - Double Gun Owners [Re: 470Rigby]
      #11542 - 15/03/04 04:09 AM

I have always thought doubles were nifty.
I have:
William Evans 400-360
Kodiak 58 cal muzzle loader
Kodial 54 cal muzzle loader
Once owned a 50 cal CVA double
All SxS

I have hunted deer with the Kodiak 54. Breech loading rifles are not legal for deer here in Iowa.

I have several SxS shotguns in 12 and 28 gauge. I hunt pheasant with them. Gave up on using them on rabbits, they are two destructive on rabbits.

I have three bolt action rifles and one lever action rifle.

A double rifle MUST NOT have an auto safety (An auto safety is a serious health hazard in a heavy stopping rifle.) and MUST have two triggers. It should not have ejectors. It should be chambered for a rimmed cartridge although the choice of rimmed cartridges is a bit limited.

My preferences in a shotgun are the same, although an auto safety and ejectors are tolerable.







Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ThomasEdwards
.300 member


Reged: 04/01/04
Posts: 246
Loc: Newport Beach, CA
Re: POLL - Double Gun Owners [Re: 470Rigby]
      #11549 - 15/03/04 06:51 AM

470rigby,

...thanks for responding...it's a shame what happened to rigbys, and from purviewing comments on this site it appears as if butch searcy's outfit may be taking the mantel as the top double maker stateside...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chasseur
.375 member


Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: POLL - Double Gun Owners [Re: unspellable]
      #11622 - 16/03/04 07:23 AM

Unspellable,

How are those muzzeloading Kodiaks? I've been thinkin about one for quite some time. How hard is it working up a load to regulate them? I am thinking about the 58 caliber. Is it true that the rifling twist on the 54 is for roudn ball, while the 50 and the 58 are for conical?

What kind of groups do you get with what loads?

Thanks!

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
unspellable
.300 member


Reged: 06/03/04
Posts: 187
Loc: Iowa
Re: POLL - Double Gun Owners [Re: Chasseur]
      #11755 - 18/03/04 05:52 AM

I am obliged to confess that I've had quite a few irons in the fire and have not done much with the Kodiaks. The 58 I bought used and have not fired at all. The 54 I bought new when they were distributed by Trail Guns Armoury. Since then the owner died and Cabella's have taken over distribution.

The first lesson you will learn with it is why there are right and left hand locks on single barreled rifles. The left cap spits on the tender skin on the under side of my wrist and the effect is not very pleasant. You soon learn to wear a very long sleeved shirt, glove, or something to protect the wrist.

I have not done enough shooting with it to have an opinion on accuracy or regulation. I have heard that the later ones have better regulation than the early ones.

I have heard the 54 and 72 are rifled for round ball while the 50 and 58 are rifled for conicals. I can't confirm this at the moment. If the 54 will handle conicals well, it would be my prefered caliber for here in Iowa. I view 50 caliber as just a bit on the light side for deer while 58 caliber bullets are harder to find around here.

The barrel OD is the same for 50, 54, and 58, so the larger the caliber, the lighter the barrels. It's not light to start with so if you have to tote it far, I'd give points for the lighter weight.

The breech loading Kodiak was designed as more or less a replica of the Colt double rifle. As such, by chambering it for 45-70 Powell got around the federal restrictions on interstate sales and shipping. I'd bet money this point will gain you nothing at Cabella's. Powell's plans for a second caliber were for 30-40, but today the second caliber is 9.3x74R. I don't know if that cartridge is old enough to predate the federal rules.

Wish I could be a little more help. I've got to get oput and work up loads for these things.





Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: POLL - Double Gun Owners [Re: unspellable]
      #11765 - 18/03/04 10:10 AM

In reply to:

It should not have ejectors.




WHY?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: POLL - Double Gun Owners [Re: 4seventy]
      #11806 - 18/03/04 04:07 PM

In reply to:

"It should not have ejectors."




Why?

Because elephants seem to be perturbed by and charge toward metallic sounds, but the firing of a gun creates a generalized BOOOOM that is hard to pinpoint. So the theory is that it is safer although slower to quietly reload without ejectors because the elephants are less likely to know where you are.

Like all other theories, it may have little application in practice. Most people will drop their elephant with one or two shots, and therefore could play an electric guitar while reloading without causing any trouble.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Partial response. [Re: 500grains]
      #11807 - 18/03/04 04:14 PM

DOUBLE GUN OWNERS (please respond as you would wish):

-- how many double rifles do you now own (please specify s-by-s, o-u or drilling), and in what calibres;

Uno, 500 NE.

-- how long after you took up the sport of shooting/hunting did you catch the double gun 'bug/disease' (no known cure):

I have hunted birds with a double since age 9. I tried an O/U for a few years but couldn't hit anything.

It was only after I hunted buffalo and elephant with a bolt gun that I realized a double was a very useful tool, not just a luxury.

-- the three top double gun reference sources are;

Shooting the British Double, but not anything written by that fluff writer Craig whatshisname whose personal DGR is a model 700 rebarreled to .458 lott.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ThomasEdwards
.300 member


Reged: 04/01/04
Posts: 246
Loc: Newport Beach, CA
Re: Partial response. [Re: 500grains]
      #11810 - 18/03/04 04:54 PM

...met craig b. at several sci gatherings...remember the sci-lv gathering in early 02 where craig sold his beloved rigby .416 prior to shipping out to central asia...he wanted around 9k usd, if i remember correctly...wonder whether he kept his .458 lott...

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: POLL - Double Gun Owners [Re: 500grains]
      #11831 - 18/03/04 11:25 PM

In reply to:

Like all other theories, it may have little application in practice.



I'll drink to that!


Elephant charges don't really bother me too much as I don't ever get to hunt them.

That said, my doubles all have ejectors and any double I use on big game or dangerous game would preferably have ejectors.
I've allways found ejectors make for faster reload times when the heat is on, so long as you know how to use an ejector double properly.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
unspellable
.300 member


Reged: 06/03/04
Posts: 187
Loc: Iowa
Re: POLL - Double Gun Owners [Re: ThomasEdwards]
      #11841 - 19/03/04 12:39 AM

The bit about the game being alerted by the cartrdige clink when it hits a rock is quite valid. It was of more signiifcance to the commercial hunter who might wish to take several animals from a herd.

A second point is that ejectors add complication and reduce reliabilty. A dangerous game rifle must be reliable above all else. One of the justifications for the expense of two barrels and two triggers.

Third point, when I saw a guy with a double get off four aimed shots faster than a guy with a magazine rifle he did not have ejectors. In fact I think given the technique used, ejectors would have slowed him down due to stiffer opening or closing.

Forth point, in a charge, you get two shots period. If there is to be a third shot it will come from your backup man.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: POLL - Double Gun Owners [Re: unspellable]
      #11845 - 19/03/04 01:06 AM


Ok but if you let the cases fall from the chambers of a non ejector gun in rocky country they are just as likely to hit a rock and make unwanted noise as shells thrown from an ejector gun.
Imo a quality gun will have quality ejectors and therefore they should be just as reliable as the other working parts of the gun.
The stiffness when closing an ejector gun will only slow the closing of the gun if the wrong technique is used.
If you use the same technique with an ejector gun as with a non ejector gun, yes, it most likely will slow you down.

Not all fast reloads come about as a result of a charging animal.
Fast reloading is often needed in hunting circumstances which do not involve any charge situation but still require more than 2 shots to get the animal down and dead.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
unspellable
.300 member


Reged: 06/03/04
Posts: 187
Loc: Iowa
Re: POLL - Double Gun Owners [Re: 4seventy]
      #11857 - 19/03/04 05:28 AM

Granted, a case dropped will make about the same noise whether ejected or simply dropped. If you in a REAL hurry the noise is probably not a consideration. The noise is a consideration in stalking multiple animals when one is not in a hurry.

An ejector on a quality piece should be reliable, but no matter how good, it is an added complication and adds to the failure rate. (I say this as a reliability engineer.)

Ejectors were originally developed for use on paired shotguns used for driven birds where you have a shooter and a loader swapping guns. The loader does not shoot and in this case the ejector probably does speed things up. (Note that for this use, the gun must have a non-auto safety like a trap gun, but most modern double shotguns have an auto-safety, ejectors or not.) They became something of a fad and spread to other types of guns and rifles where their main point seems to be just to prove it can be done. I have never found a situation while rough shooting where ejectors would have any advantage at all. I say this having both ejector and non-ejector guns.

There is an argument put forward by magazine rifle advocates that you have a third and fourth shot available. A bit of work dividing charging distance by the animal's charging speed will show this to be a fantasy. It's one of the main points in favor of the double, two faster shots and the third just doesn't happen.

In the odd situation where fast multiple shots do happen, as I say, I have seen four aimed shots made from a double faster than from a magazine rifle. The technique obviously takes some practice and moving that fast is a bit hard on the gun so it's for working doubles, not the safe queens. The technique dictates the manner of closing the action and it's done without removing the stock from the shoulder. I will have to go home and try it tonight with both an ejector and a non-ejector gun and see how difficult it is or isn't.

For my money ejectors add cost and complication while adding nothing of value. I would not refuse a rifle with ejectors, but I would not go out of my way to have them.

One point I like on a shotgun that I did not mention. I have an Ithica Flues with an auto safety that allows one to deliberately hold it off while closing the gun. One can hold the triggers back and close the gun uncocked before putting it away. This seems like a handy feature on an automatic safety.

On the other hand there is no place for an auto safety on a rifle. There are several graves in Nairobi occuped by guys who had auto safeties on their rifles.








Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: POLL - Double Gun Owners [Re: unspellable]
      #11903 - 19/03/04 02:07 PM

Do you know the time in seconds for the guy shooting the 4 aimed shots with his double?
Also how did he remove the fired cases from the first 2 shots?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: POLL - Double Gun Owners [Re: 4seventy]
      #11918 - 19/03/04 03:09 PM

Alan

Try this. After shooting with the rifle still on your shoulder hit the lever with your thumb. pull barrels down as you rotate to the inside over 90 degrees to allow shells to fall out on ground. Push new cartridges, that you have between your fingers, into chambers backhanded. (have the cartridges between your fingers with bullets toward the back of your hand) As you push in new cartridges rotate rifle back to vertical and close action with your left hand. Rifle is ready to shoot.

I have seen good shooters do 4 aimed rounds in 5 seconds. I think it could be faster but takes allot of practice.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
unspellable
.300 member


Reged: 06/03/04
Posts: 187
Loc: Iowa
Re: POLL - Double Gun Owners [Re: mickey]
      #11958 - 20/03/04 12:45 AM

The challange: Two guys, one with a heavy double, the other with a heavy magazine rifle. Place four shots in a paper plate at 70 yards. If the shot touches the edge of the plate it doesn't count. Rifles ready at the shoulder. Who finishes first at the command to fire?

The guy with the double starts with two cartridges between the fingers of the left hand, bullets pointing towards the ground. On firing the second shot he works the lever while the rifle is rising in recoil, the action breaks assisted by the recoil and dumps the cases. Since it was a heavy with plenty of recoil and he is not trying to hold it down, the barrels are pointing up steeply enough for the cases to drop out with or without ejectors. (One of the points of low pressure in double cartridges.) He did not rotate the rifle sideways. The left hand comes around and stuffs in the new cartridges while the rifle is dropping back down and then returns to the forearm before the rifle has dropped below shoulder level. the rifle is closed and fired.

I cannot say how fast this was accomplished, but he beat the guy with the bolt action who was supposedly damned good with a bolt rifle. With either rifle this kind of speed would require plenty of practice.

One of the tricks here, as I see it, is that the left arm is extended out to the forearm and does not have good leverage for strength in closing the action. Over the weekend I am going to try closing both a non-ejector and an ejector gun this way to see how difficult it is.

Another point is that it seems to me that a doll's head might slow things down when inserting the fresh cartridges. A Greener cross bolt might be a little better. A hidden bite better yet. This would be easier with a bottle necked cartridge as opposed to a straight one.

the process strikes me as a bit rough on the rifle and not suitable for safe queens.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: POLL - Double Gun Owners [Re: unspellable]
      #11965 - 20/03/04 02:45 AM

unspellable

That method works best with ejectors as when the rifle breaks the shells eject without have the rifle rise above the horzontal as far. The barrels stay parallel to the ground and the action rises. By putting your left hand farther on the forearm the leverage is improved but it harder on the wrist.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: POLL - Double Gun Owners [Re: unspellable]
      #12057 - 20/03/04 09:49 PM

In reply to:

The guy with the double starts with two cartridges between the fingers of the left hand, bullets pointing towards the ground. On firing the second shot he works the lever while the rifle is rising in recoil, the action breaks assisted by the recoil and dumps the cases. Since it was a heavy with plenty of recoil and he is not trying to hold it down, the barrels are pointing up steeply enough for the cases to drop out with or without ejectors.




The above might be an ok way to handle a double when shooting paper targets but don't ever get the idea that it is a good way to reload a double if you're hunting dangerous game.
There are MANY flaws with this system if it is used when hunting big game!
In a controlled situation like range shooting there are a lot less variables than in feild shooting situations.

Also, before I would take much notice of a bolt versus double 4 shot race, I'd want to know the actual times taken.
Two guys can run against each other in a 100 yard sprint and one will most likely beat the other, but this does not mean that the race was run at a time that woud qualify them for the olimpics!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
unspellable
.300 member


Reged: 06/03/04
Posts: 187
Loc: Iowa
Re: POLL - Double Gun Owners [Re: 4seventy]
      #12075 - 21/03/04 07:21 AM

I don't remember what the time was, but I will say it was pretty fast, either one of them did it a good bit faster than I could do it with either rifle. It was one of those case of beer bets that come up on hunting trips.

I won my case of beer by going up against a scoped 30-06 with my iron sighted 44 mag S&W at 100 yards. the advantage being that I had put in plenty of practice with the S&W where the other guy didn't practice with the 30-06 at all and I'm not totally convinced he had it properly sighted in. This was on a javalina hunt where they all laughed at me for taking a revolver, but I took a nice boar and they had nothing to show so I had the last laugh.

Granted, things in the field are a bit more variable than in the hunting camp. But how would you advise reloading a double when in a hurry?

Also, tried the above closing technique at home. The ejector was slower to close although it must be admitted that it's new and still a bit stiff.











Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1



Extra information
1 registered and 83 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  CptCurl 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 4422

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved