Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: So what happens if things go south in Zimbabwe

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***
You are not logged in. [Login] Main Index · Search · Active Topics
New user · Who's Online · FAQ · Calendar

Hunting >> Hunting in Africa & hunting dangerous game
Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Pages: 1
Plains99
.300 member


Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 225
Loc: Dodge City, Kansas, USA
So what happens if things go south in Zimbabwe
      #103470 - 25/04/08 06:28 AM

I was all set to book a hunt for summer 2009 in Zimbabwe but we haven't moved on it for the last two weeks. I liked the sound of the hunt because we would be working out of tent camps and largely hunting unfenced buffalo on foot... at a reasonable price (compared to some other places). I couldn't care less about four-star accomodations and fancy meals. It just sounded like exactly what I'd like. You fellows with more experience... what happens if things go south in Zimbabwe and you have booked a hunt through a broker. Do I get my money back? Do I have to accept alternative booking? Am I just screwed? I really would like to hunt the country in this style and I consider the price fair... but not if I can't go.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ozhunter
.400 member


Reged: 18/08/04
Posts: 1692
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Re: So what happens if things go south in Zimbabwe [Re: Plains99]
      #103479 - 25/04/08 09:41 AM

Your booking agent should tell you if you will get the deposit back or noy and you should get this in writing.
Most agents will return the $ if it really gos south but if you just get cold feet don't expect much.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
shakari
.400 member


Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: So what happens if things go south in Zimbabwe [Re: ozhunter]
      #103504 - 25/04/08 03:45 PM

Assuming you book with a reputable agent or operator, you'll have everything fully detailed in a written safari contract.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
tophet1
.400 member


Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: So what happens if things go south in Zimbabwe [Re: shakari]
      #103510 - 25/04/08 06:21 PM

We have just had a visit from friends of ours who still live in Zim. and plan to keep on living there.

While you can't buy anything in the country without US$ on the black market) and foreign income, the country is not as bad as some of the media paranoia would make out.

Areas such as Vic Falls and Hwange are still functioning, in fact anything to do with Fourex generation is 'business as usual'. Safari camps are all functioning and our friends feel quite safe with their young family. The people who get into trouble are the ones who critisize the regime.

Remember, most of the world does not function as western society functions. It IS Africa and it is NOT the USA or Europe.

IMO the US is entering a new and more entrenched period of isolationism and I realise that will affect many people.

My family are off there in October this year, it was going to be 2009 but we can't wait. It will be my fourth visit and the first hunting, and I'm taking my kids.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Plains99
.300 member


Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 225
Loc: Dodge City, Kansas, USA
Re: So what happens if things go south in Zimbabwe [Re: tophet1]
      #103517 - 25/04/08 11:23 PM

Yeah, I'm not afraid of going over there. My main concern was if the US or other powers simply refused to allow anyone into the country in the form of some sort of blockade. I agree with tophet1 about our perceptions of these countries. We are very ethnocentric and expect our frame of reference to be everyone elses. It must be tough for those safari outfits in the country. It must be a logistical nightmare to marshall resources, arrange credit, manage funding, and maintain simple day to day business operations in an economy such as Zimbabwe's. The one major impression I had in South Africa is how spoiled we are in the states. Gritching and moaning about how tough we have it when we really don't have any idea of what it means to live day to day as many Africans do.
And yes, a contract is being arranged by whom I believe is quite reputable.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39263
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: So what happens if things go south in Zimbabwe [Re: Plains99]
      #103542 - 26/04/08 04:53 AM

Come on Zimbabwe is a complete mess! Just because the safari operators can operate, by virtue of their US$ incomes, doesn't mean the place hasn't already gone "South".

I have been there in 1988, 1994, 2002 and 2006 and been over quite a bit of the country. It improved between 1988 and 1994, probably because the black on black "civil war" had only just finished a couple of years before 1988. 1994 the place was doing quite well by African standards. By 2002 the place had gone mostly to a basket case. By 2006 it was even further down the drain. What it is like now I can imagine.

People with access to US$ get by, by using all sorts of schemes and convoluted trading and bartering. It would have massive starvation if 3 million people hadn't left to work in neighbouring countries. It probably has the worst inflation in history of any country IMO.

It will only get worse before it gets better IMO.

That all said, if you want to do a safari there and book with a good, well setup, reputable outfitter I would still do it myself if I had the $$$ to book a hunt. A tuskless elephant cow hunt would be great.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
shakari
.400 member


Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: So what happens if things go south in Zimbabwe [Re: NitroX]
      #103550 - 26/04/08 06:19 AM

John's quite right, the country has gone down the crapper completely and it's a wonder that the good operators are still managing to hold things together ...... but they are, and my guess is that they'll continue to do so. One question is will the game survive in sufficient number for hunting to continue...... personally, I think it will. - At least for the next few years.

The more pressing question is whether the various Governments, esp the American Government will try to stop their citizens travelling to Zimbabwe....... and that is in the lap of the Gods. - Personally I think that if they do, it'll be a disgrace....... people should be free to make their own decisions......

Whether to hunt Zim or not should be a private decision made by the individual concerned. Personally, I won't do business there because I flatly refuse to put a cent in the pocket of a regime that has such an appalling record of human rights abuses..... but I don't condemn anyone for deciding otherwise.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Bramble
.375 member


Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: So what happens if things go south in Zimbabwe [Re: Plains99]
      #103553 - 26/04/08 08:06 AM

Quote:

My main concern was if the US or other powers simply refused to allow anyone into the country in the form of some sort of blockade.



And the US would close the 3000 km land borders to Zim how pray?

Are you imagining that the US would comitt troops in sufficient numbers to do so if indeed S.A, Mozambique, Zambia and Botswana would allow them to be stationed on their land.

If you really want to get in then a GPS, a pocket full of Dollars and a meeting point would be all you need.

Anyway, Presedent Obama, will be too busy copeing with the race riots in the US when the electorate find out that he has more political favours to repay to rich white folks than Nixon.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
shakari
.400 member


Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: So what happens if things go south in Zimbabwe [Re: Bramble]
      #103596 - 26/04/08 05:13 PM

If the western world wanted to apply pressure to Zimbabwe and/or the surrounding countries, the way to do it would be to withdraw ALL aid and trade and make it clear that it wouldn't be resumed until matters were resolved.

They would also need to address the issue of how some banks do business out there. Barclays for example, donate something like UK£50M - US$100 M a year supporting the Mugabe regime. - Just do a Google search on Barclays Bank and Robert Mugabe to find out more........ What they get in return is a matter of speculation, but you can bet your life they're getting something very valuable in exchange

I'm sure the western Governments wouldn't try to enforce a blockade on people going into the country...... in fact, as Bramble says, it'd be impossible, but they could forbid their citizens from doing entering the country under some kind of penalty. - That would be a disgrace, but it's not impossible. It is unlikely, but not impossible........ after all, Big Brother is watching more and more every day.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



Edited by shakari (26/04/08 05:19 PM)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Bramble
.375 member


Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: So what happens if things go south in Zimbabwe [Re: shakari]
      #103601 - 26/04/08 10:17 PM

Hell if Brown forbids me to go to Zim, I'll book a Safari the following day.

Nothing like a bit of civil disobedence for improving the soul :-)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bigmaxx
.375 member


Reged: 13/06/07
Posts: 660
Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.
Re: So what happens if things go south in Zimbabwe [Re: Bramble]
      #103610 - 26/04/08 11:10 PM

I booked my september '08 buffalo hunt with Roger Whittall Safaris through Safari Outfitters. I feel very comfortable with both RWS and Safari outfitters. Don Crane at Safari Outfitters has been on the phone with me immediately following any of my emails with questions. If Roger pulls the plug on the hunt due to deteriorating conditions i receive a full refund. If he doesnt i intend to be there with bells on!

--------------------
One day at a time...

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JPK
.375 member


Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re: So what happens if things go south in Zimbabwe [Re: bigmaxx]
      #103637 - 27/04/08 05:30 AM

Roger Whittall is a stand up guy, 100%. You won't go wrong with Roger and his outfit and he'll call it like he sees it. BTW, I leave for the airport in less the 24hrs.

JPK

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
tophet1
.400 member


Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: So what happens if things go south in Zimbabwe [Re: JPK]
      #103651 - 27/04/08 08:20 AM

If only ZIM had oil there would be a different international response.

(Note to self: I have to get professional help for my cynacism....)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: So what happens if things go south in Zimbabwe [Re: tophet1]
      #103667 - 27/04/08 10:51 AM

Agree--with reputable outfitters you should be fine--I am also going there shortly and while I feel it is a bit riskier than if I was going to Tanzania--I still feel I will be fine..and have taken some precautions in case it does not...I would book and see what happens..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bigmaxx
.375 member


Reged: 13/06/07
Posts: 660
Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.
Re: So what happens if things go south in Zimbabwe [Re: Ripp]
      #103672 - 27/04/08 12:09 PM

Everything i have heard about roger has been positive. i have seen several RWS hunts on safari hunter's journal too. his family is meeting me at the airport which is comforting as well. this is not only my first african safari, it will be my first time to fly! we hillbillys dont get out much. this is proof that miracles do happen. i feel very blessed to have this opportunity.

--------------------
One day at a time...

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JPK
.375 member


Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re: So what happens if things go south in Zimbabwe [Re: bigmaxx]
      #103688 - 27/04/08 01:19 PM

"this is not only my first african safari, it will be my first time to fly!"

Big step Bigmaxx! Who is meeting you? I know the Whittall's pretty well. And do you nknow who will be PH?

Flying is fun for some, frightening for others, I'm in the middle. It's a LONG flight over, you may want to get you Dr to prescribe some Ambien to try to get some shuteye on the way.

Also, if you're flying SAA, which I am again, you will want to bring some water and some emergency TP. I've been on flights where both were in short supply.

JPK

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
shakari
.400 member


Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: So what happens if things go south in Zimbabwe [Re: JPK]
      #103705 - 27/04/08 06:54 PM

You'll be in good hands with Roger, he's one of the best.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: So what happens if things go south in Zimbabwe [Re: bigmaxx]
      #103735 - 28/04/08 07:21 AM

BigMax
You concern me a bit as this is your first time for several issues...just checking in an attempt to help out..I am sure you have all ready...but some if the really important issues..I am assuming you have gone to a US Customs office and had the rifles you are taking with you --permitted so you can bring them back into the country??

All your shots taken care of ? Passport all in order?? As I mentioned it is usually very well handled by the PH--

Thanks
Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bigmaxx
.375 member


Reged: 13/06/07
Posts: 660
Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.
Re: So what happens if things go south in Zimbabwe [Re: Ripp]
      #103764 - 28/04/08 12:43 PM

Actually I share your concern. I have discussed a little with Don Crane at Safari Outfitters and Doug at Gracy Travel. Is there a timeline of that declaration and documentation? Thanks, I appreciate the help! -Max

--------------------
One day at a time...

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lapua
.333 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Australia
Re: So what happens if things go south in Zimbabwe [Re: Plains99]
      #104997 - 14/05/08 02:37 AM

Hi I am interested on how you go in zim please let me know how you get on if you don't mind would love the feed back.



Cheers


lapua

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: So what happens if things go south in Zimbabwe [Re: lapua]
      #105000 - 14/05/08 03:25 AM

The African landscape is littered with 'Good Outfits' that got into a financial squeeze and bailed out, leaving their trusting clients holding the bag.

Make sure you DO NOT pay the balance of your hunt before it is over. If you trust a company, no matter how well intentioned, to be in business in a Country as volatile as Zim has become 6 weeks down the road your are fooling yourself.

You may lose the deposit, particularly if you deal with a small Booking Agent with a lot of Zim bookings, but you will still have the major part in your pocket or in an escrow account.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39263
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: So what happens if things go south in Zimbabwe [Re: mickey]
      #105010 - 14/05/08 08:30 AM

Quote:

The African landscape is littered with 'Good Outfits' that got into a financial squeeze and bailed out, leaving their trusting clients holding the bag.

Make sure you DO NOT pay the balance of your hunt before it is over. If you trust a company, no matter how well intentioned, to be in business in a Country as volatile as Zim has become 6 weeks down the road your are fooling yourself.

You may lose the deposit, particularly if you deal with a small Booking Agent with a lot of Zim bookings, but you will still have the major part in your pocket or in an escrow account.



Mickey,

Good advice.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
sams_grandson
.224 member


Reged: 01/06/08
Posts: 6
Loc: zimbabwe
Re: So what happens if things go south in Zimbabwe [Re: NitroX]
      #106512 - 02/06/08 07:14 PM

hi all, new to this site.
was wanting some assistance, i am currently a student in South Africa, studying game ranch management and am interested in returning to my home country in 2010 to do my experiential year. am also really keen to start my professional hunters license at the same time.
would like to speak to anyone who can answer a question, when doing your learners license, does one need to immediately start there 2 years apprenticeship or is it possible to just get it and add it to my CV when applying for a job and then start.
another thing, does anyone have any information on nunetsi ranch, am really interested in approaching them for a job.
any help in this regards will be much appreciated.

mike

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2404
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: So what happens if things go south in Zimbabwe [Re: sams_grandson]
      #106522 - 02/06/08 11:04 PM

Should the U.S. impose a ban on travel to Zimbabwe, and you go ahead and travel there, you will have little to no problem traveling and hunting there. Depending on what degree of ban the State Department puts on, your return could be the most eventful and traumatic part of your trip.

Some worse case scenario's:

Your passport is going to contain entry and exit stamps and probably a VISA showing a visit to a banned country. Upon return the passport can be revoked by the State Department and siezed by Customs and Border Protection for illegal travel. You could also be banned from having a passport for a period of years, or have to pay large monetary penalty or both. Remember the passport is not your property, it is the property of the government issuing it.

Your Firearms and other such items can be siezed for illegal exportation to a banned country. They could be forfiet or you will have to pay a large monetary fine to get them returned.

Any Zimbabwean goods you bring back would be siezed and destroyed. This includes clay pots and world record Cape buffalo capes.

Is the U.S. going to do this? I seriously doubt it. They tried it a few years ago and the political pressure backed them down. Look how effective such a ban has been for Cuban travel.

At the most all the U.S. State Department will do is issue travel advisories.

I would be more worried about what happens in that country if Mugabe looses a second election.

I would also take with a grain of salt the word of anyone who says all is well come on over, who is depending on you coming for their income. What else do you expect them to say?

--------------------
DD, Ret.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1


Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Extra information
0 registered and 29 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:   

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating: ****
Topic views: 3878

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved