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bigmaxx
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Reged: 13/06/07
Posts: 660
Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.
second rifle for zimbabwe...
      #103407 - 24/04/08 02:19 PM

I am going on a 10 day buffalo and plains game hunt in chewore with roger whittall safaris in september. I am taking a Ruger M77 .458 lott for duggaboys. I have the choice of a Ruger Hawkweye African .375 ruger with a leupold 1.5-5 X 20, M77 .338 winchester magnum with a zeiss conquest 3-9 X 40, or M77 .30-06 with the zeiss. All are accurate and dependable. I will be shooting kudu, zebra, warthogs, impala and anything else in the area that presents an opportunity.

--------------------
One day at a time...


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albertan
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Reged: 13/06/06
Posts: 432
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Re: second rifle for zimbabwe... [Re: bigmaxx]
      #103408 - 24/04/08 02:53 PM

I took a .458 Winchester and a .338 Winchester to Zimbabwe in 2006. I used a good 250 grain bullet at 2650 fps with excellent results. Zebras dropped with one shot. Jackals and duikers did too, without blowing up. Zero pelt damage except for a .338 hole in and out. You will be shooting your light rifle the most, and as a bonus, you can carry more .338 ammo than .375 ammo. The 30:06 is a good round, but .338 bullets are tougher bullets on large trophies and small ones too.

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JPK
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Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re: second rifle for zimbabwe... [Re: bigmaxx]
      #103409 - 24/04/08 03:39 PM

Bigmaxx,

You are in for a GREAT Safari. I have hunted Chewore South with Roger Whittall Safaris twice. You will see many, many buffalo and also many elephants.

Before moving on to the topic of rifles, I suggest that you reserve quota for a Chobe bushbuck in Chewore. A great hunt for an beautiful anumal and there are excellent bushbuck there, but the quota isn't unlimited. Also, I would suggest reserving quota for a hyhena. It is a fun hunt and sort of a leopard hunt "light" with not dissimiliar tactics, but lacking the required attention to minute details so more fun and relaxing. A hyhena skin makes a nice rug and the skull is remarkable for its teeth. The quota isn't large in Chewore so resreving ahead of time is wise, for both animals. Neither of these animals is expensive trophy fee wise and reserving the quota shouldn't cost anything.

I suspect that you may move from Chewore to Humani in the Save Consevatiry after you have been successful with your buff. If so then you will see vast numbers of plains game and some of the cheekiest elephants to be found.

Do you know who your PH will be yet?

On to rifles, I suggest the 375 Ruger as a second rifle because it can serve as an adequate back up to your 458 Lott should you encounter any problems with it. There is no penalty to selecting it over your other choices and the insurance it provides as a back up may prove invaluable.

I have taken a 458wm and a 375H&H and this has proven completely successful. The flatter trajectory of the Ruger only makes your rifle a better selection.

Also I have used the 1.5x5 Leupold on my 375H&H and find it an excellent choice, except when it comes to leopard hunting, where it lacks sufficient low light performance.

Lastly, I have a healthy respect for elephants, especially in the Save, if you do end up there, and find an elephant capable rifle comforting. Even when after inocuous game like impala or kudu I load my 375H&H with one soft up the spout and maybe another on top of the magazine and then solids below.

JPK


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Plains99
.300 member


Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 225
Loc: Dodge City, Kansas, USA
Re: second rifle for zimbabwe... [Re: JPK]
      #103431 - 25/04/08 12:16 AM

I'm going next summer and I decided on a .458 Win Mag Ruger 77 and a Ruger Hawkeye in .375 Ruger... the African model. So far I really like the .375. The African handles like a deer rifle, recoil is not bad, it is accurate (the trigger really is improved). If you plan on doing a lot of walking, the Ruger is a very nice pack rifle. I'm impressed.

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JPK
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Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
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Re: second rifle for zimbabwe... [Re: Plains99]
      #103435 - 25/04/08 12:50 AM

Quote:

I'm going next summer and I decided on a .458 Win Mag Ruger 77 and a Ruger Hawkeye in .375 Ruger... the African model. So far I really like the .375. The African handles like a deer rifle, recoil is not bad, it is accurate (the trigger really is improved). If you plan on doing a lot of walking, the Ruger is a very nice pack rifle. I'm impressed.




Sounds great!


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bigmaxx
.375 member


Reged: 13/06/07
Posts: 660
Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.
Re: second rifle for zimbabwe... [Re: JPK]
      #103497 - 25/04/08 01:16 PM

Yes, I love my Hawkeye African as well. It feels so similar to my other M77's. I have M77 rifles in .30-06, .338 winchester magnum, .458 lott, and a stainless .300 winchester magnum. Actually two .30-06 rifles( one with a 50mm zeiss and one open sighted). I have a custon siamese mauser in .45-70 too. I am really sold on the mauser type rifles and the ruger seems to be accurate, reliable and affordable. My Hawkeye is sighted in with 270 grain hornady factory loads right now, but i just got a set of dies to reload. I am leaning toward taking it along with the lott of course.

--------------------
One day at a time...


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JPK
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Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re: second rifle for zimbabwe... [Re: bigmaxx]
      #103498 - 25/04/08 01:40 PM

You won't go wrong with 300gr Woodleigh softs and solids.

JPK


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WyoJoe
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Reged: 18/02/04
Posts: 234
Loc: Cheyenne, WY USA
Re: second rifle for zimbabwe... [Re: JPK]
      #103534 - 26/04/08 02:17 AM

Quote:

On to rifles, I suggest the 375 Ruger as a second rifle because it can serve as an adequate back up to your 458 Lott should you encounter any problems with it.




Ditto. Better to be over prepared than under.

--------------------
There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor polite, nor popular -- but one must ask, "Is it right?"

Martin Luther King, Jr.


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jorge
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Reged: 13/07/05
Posts: 88
Loc: Orange Park, Florida
Re: second rifle for zimbabwe... [Re: WyoJoe]
      #103643 - 27/04/08 06:04 AM

I'll cast a dissenting vote for the 375 as your second rifle. I just don't see them breaking that often. Scopes yes, but not rifles. For the animals you specified, the 06 is dandy, personally I would take the 338 with 210 TSXs. jorge

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poprivit
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Reged: 09/04/07
Posts: 398
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
Re: second rifle for zimbabwe... [Re: jorge]
      #103644 - 27/04/08 06:06 AM

Judging by my 2006 safari to Zim, and the political games today, my choice for a second rifle would be a AKM with 600 rounds of ammo. My Zim safari was so bad that I wouldn't go back if it was free.

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JPK
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Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re: second rifle for zimbabwe... [Re: poprivit]
      #103654 - 27/04/08 09:19 AM

Quote:

Judging by my 2006 safari to Zim, and the political games today, my choice for a second rifle would be a AKM with 600 rounds of ammo. My Zim safari was so bad that I wouldn't go back if it was free.




Its unfortunate that your '06 safari was a looser. Must have chosen the wrong outfitter and/or PH, perhaps hunting area or concession.

I had two safaris in '06 in Zim, back to back, or you could say that I had one really long one with two different outfitters and two different PH's, and both were fantasic. I ended up hunting in five different areas from one end of Zim to the other and had a blast. Hunted Chewore South and then Chete and then Omay South and then Kew-Kwe Conservancy and finished up in the Save Conservancy. While we never hesitated to take good fun targets of opportunity, the hunt was elephant centric and I ended uo killing nine that trip.

My '05 trip was fantastic as well. Roger Whittall was outfitter in Chewore Soth and the PH Rich Tabor, similar to the Chewore and Save portions of my '06 hunt.

I leave tomorrow, as mentioned, and I'll be hunting elephants and some other game with Rich Tabor again, but this time in Nyakasanga.

JPK


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rscott
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Reged: 21/03/08
Posts: 328
Loc: wyo., USA
Re: second rifle for zimbabwe... [Re: JPK]
      #103660 - 27/04/08 10:03 AM

yes, thats what african hunting has turned into these days; money, vanity and bragging rights at the next sci convention.

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ozhunter
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Reged: 18/08/04
Posts: 1692
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Re: second rifle for zimbabwe... [Re: rscott]
      #103663 - 27/04/08 10:36 AM

Quote:

yes, thats what african hunting has turned into these days; money, vanity and bragging rights at the next sci convention.




Yes its terrible isn't it, so your better off not hunting there..


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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: second rifle for zimbabwe... [Re: bigmaxx]
      #103664 - 27/04/08 10:46 AM

BIGMAX
Do what you will..I am leaving for Zim in 3 weeks and will be taking a custom .416 and a .338 ultra-mag..for plains game etc...this will be my 4th African hunt so I have chosen the calibers based on what I will be hunting as well as what I have experienced there previously..

If you feel perfectly comfortable shooting the .375 a lot then by all means take it however based on the game you described, again I would take the 338 or possible even the 30-06---as they will be a bit flatter in the off chance you need it...

Good luck on your hunt--you should have a blast..no pun intended..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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JPK
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Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re: second rifle for zimbabwe... [Re: jorge]
      #103689 - 27/04/08 01:34 PM

Quote:

I'll cast a dissenting vote for the 375 as your second rifle. I just don't see them breaking that often. Scopes yes, but not rifles. For the animals you specified, the 06 is dandy, personally I would take the 338 with 210 TSXs. jorge




Ripp and Jorge are right handed. I think my hesitancy regarding second rifles in grounded in the fact that I'm a lefty and the idea of hunting DG with a right handed rifle doesn't appeal to me, but since a 375H&H doesn't give up much in trajectory, and even less the Ruger, I don't see the reason not to wear both a belt and suspenders.

Member Allen Day has had a rifle become inopperable on safari btw, so the potential of the problem isn't too far fetched.

Besides, I'm not much of a longer range shooter or shot, and if the range is getting out there for a 375H&H trajectory or similar, it getting out there for my ability, or at least my confidence, too. Guys from out west may find the 375H&H limiting, I don't. The Ruger has a flatter trajectory than the 375H&H and at ~2700fps with 300 grainers, it is on par with a 30-06 with 180 grainers or a 338wm with 225 grainers.

But good choices make good debates, and all of your choices and all of the others' opinions have merit.

JPK


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JPK
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Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re: second rifle for zimbabwe... [Re: ozhunter]
      #103690 - 27/04/08 01:46 PM

Quote:

Quote:

yes, thats what african hunting has turned into these days; money, vanity and bragging rights at the next sci convention.




Yes its terrible isn't it, so your better off not hunting there..




My first instinct when reading post like the one Oz Hunter quoted, or Poprivit's is to practice Irish Diplomacy, as I believe Oz Hunter is doing. (Irish Diplomacy: To tell a man to go to hell so that he looks forward to the trip)

But in situations like this, where the original poster or other posters are looking at their first safari (and fortunately, have booked with a Class A, top of the line outfit) and must harbor all of the anxiety that I did prior to my first trip - and probably most others did as well, and some additional anxiety because of 1.) the current trouble 2.) unresposive and unhelpful post like Poprivits, Rscott's and other's, I think it is more than appropriate to make it clear that nay sayers' and shit slingers' opinions and experiences are theirs and not nessecarily shared by others. Maybe even that their negative experiences and opinions are unique to themselves.

And Rscott, to the extent that your pretty shitty post was directed to me, and I assume it must have been, I've never gone to the SCI convention, find the "record book" a poor reason to hunt, and hunting for a tape measure an abomination. And why the apparent envy directed toward some other guy's money spent on a hunt? If you had half an idea of how to play within the system, you'd know that hunts like my last one can be remarkably cost efficient. But to learn how to do that you must be more than a follower dragged along by a PH. Either way, why the bitterness and envy, eh?

And as far a bragging, well, two things, first, I'm damned proud that I have the grit, the determination and the mental toughness to keep walking, keep tracking, keep humping, day in and day out over terrain from pretty flat to terrain where the map names mountains over a long hunt to take advantages of opportunities as they arose, second, if you've done it, it ain't braggin, it's just story telling.

JPK

Edited by JPK (27/04/08 02:24 PM)


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NE450No2
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Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: second rifle for zimbabwe... [Re: JPK]
      #103691 - 27/04/08 02:11 PM

I have done 3 Sararis to Zimbabwe, and hunted several different areas.

A 21 day hunt in 2004 and a 30 day hunt in Feb 2006, and a 35 day hunt in Oct/Nov 2006.

If I had the money I would be there now.

The "secret" is a good company, and a good PH.

I would prefer the 375 to the 338, mainly because I would want to have good solids for my "light" rifle.

On all 3 of my Safaris I used a big bore double and a 9,3x74R double as my "light" rifle.

I did shoot a few small animals with my wifes Blaser R 93 in 308, just because "it was there".

JPK has given you good advice.


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albertan
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Reged: 13/06/06
Posts: 432
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Re: second rifle for zimbabwe... [Re: NE450No2]
      #103695 - 27/04/08 03:34 PM

I uses my old Sako AV in .338 Winchester in Zimbabwe in 2006 and would do so again in a heartbeat. 250 grainers at factory velocities. No muzzle breaks needed (or wanted) and no fatigue from shooting or packing either.[IMG]http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff189/albertasafari/Zimbabwe2006034.jpg[/IMG]

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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: second rifle for zimbabwe... [Re: albertan]
      #103738 - 28/04/08 07:34 AM

Albertan--

Absolutely awesome mount--congratulations---you are a lucky man-amazing lion...


As to the negative comments mentioned by others above regarding those going on a Safari, SCI, or whatever... BITE ME... I am tired of apologizing for working 80 hour weeks, week in week out so I can do what I love to do...last I checked, its a free world..get off your dead ass and get to work...I moved to Montana in 1990 with an old toyota pickup and about $2200. --no one had given me shit..I worked for it..and so can you...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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bigmaxx
.375 member


Reged: 13/06/07
Posts: 660
Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.
Re: second rifle for zimbabwe... [Re: Ripp]
      #103757 - 28/04/08 10:09 AM

Well, in my days of riding Harleys and drinking whiskey there wasnt any place too rough for me, if they were havin' fun there and i wanted to go . I guess this is like that. Unless somebody else pulls the plug; i will be there with two big bore bolt guns and 11 pounds of ammo. My AKM days have past.

--------------------
One day at a time...


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
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Re: second rifle for zimbabwe... [Re: bigmaxx]
      #103791 - 28/04/08 11:08 PM

Quote:

Well, in my days of riding Harleys and drinking whiskey there wasnt any place too rough for me, if they were havin' fun there and i wanted to go . I guess this is like that. Unless somebody else pulls the plug; i will be there with two big bore bolt guns and 11 pounds of ammo. My AKM days have past.





IMHO--wise choice...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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poprivit
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Reged: 09/04/07
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Loc: Las Vegas, NV
Re: second rifle for zimbabwe... [Re: Ripp]
      #103885 - 30/04/08 07:00 AM

JPK - my post might have been "unresponsive and unhelpful" and that I'm a "naysayer and shitslinger" But I don't know you well enough to insult you back, but I will tell you that you might have had a slightly different opinion if you were standing with me when the clutch broke on the hunting rig 240 km from Bulawayo. It was getting dark and the locals were coming out of the bush in increasing numbers. This was the third time the truck had broken down on the trip from South Africa to Zim.

Or, you might have had a different opinion when your $12,500 hunt for a Cape Buffalo went totally south and the trophy was stolen and I got nothing.

Oh yeah, I AM Irish and I CAN tell you where to go, outline your itinerary, tell you to dress for heat and enjoy your stay for all eternity. Just don't go runnin' your mouth about someone else's experiences.

And you do need to train your instinct a little better!


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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: second rifle for zimbabwe... [Re: poprivit]
      #104035 - 02/05/08 12:22 AM

I got a call yesterday from a friend who is going to Zim on the 22 of May for Elephant (4) Buff and whatever else. This is his 4th trip in the last 4 years there so he isn't new to the area.

Anyway, his Outfitter, don't know who, called him yesterday and advised him to leave his rifles at home. He will use the Outfitters rifle.

He was told it was heating up with the Presidential election going for a re vote or Mugabe declaring victory and thinks he would be better off not trying to drag a firearm around the airports and such.

FYI and no opinion from me on what you should do. I would point out though that this is the way it was in the late 70's also. It was not uncommon for tourist rifles to be stolen or roadblocks set up in the bush to relieve hunters of their firearms. Better to lose someone else's .375 or 458 than your own. Even then tourists were relatively safe as everyone knew that, no matter who won, tourists money was going to be needed.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: second rifle for zimbabwe... [Re: mickey]
      #104041 - 02/05/08 12:45 AM

If I was told to leave my guns at home, then my ass would stay home too.

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EricD
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Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 4636
Re: second rifle for zimbabwe... [Re: ]
      #104052 - 02/05/08 04:35 AM

Bigmaxx,

Given the choices you have available, I'd add the 375H&H as my second gun for the same reasons several others have mentioned. It can function as your buffalo rifle if something happens to the .458, yet is flat shooting enough for the plainsgame you mention. At least in Zim, where you won't find many long distance shots. Although the likelihood of something going wrong with your .458 is slight, it can happen. I seem to recall it happened with our NE member Larcher in Zim last year.

As for borrowing guns, I personally think I'd take the chance of bringing my own. I'm never completely at ease with borrowed guns as compared to my own rifles which I have practiced with endlessly prior to the hunt. Loaner guns can be excellent, but they can also be complete dogs. So at least find out beforehand what you will have available.

Erik


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