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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns

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bouldersmith
.375 member

Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 627
Loc: Boulder Colorado

Any intrest in LT caps?
#102688 - 17/04/08 09:39 PM

Hello Gentlemen,
I'm trying to gage the amount of intrest in the LT capped paradox bullets in 12 bore previously used by Westley Richards in thier Explora guns. I have a Super Magnum Explora and am trying to see if there is enough intrest out there to have a run of bullets made. I know that there are several more guns out there, feedback much appreciated.
Steve

--------------------
New website http://www.bertramandco.com

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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Any intrest in LT caps? [Re: bouldersmith]
#102704 - 18/04/08 12:00 AM

I know Marty Sands is working on casting some in 20 bore for my Fauneta's. The LT caps are a neat set up.

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gatsby
.375 member

Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA

Re: Any intrest in LT caps? [Re: bouldersmith]
#102705 - 18/04/08 12:12 AM

I think you know of my interest and pursuit of these projectiles, as I have several guns regulated for them. I know of several others who have interest also. I didn't know Mr Sands was attempting to make them. It is an involved process of machining, casting and swaging. So far no one has made any except in very small limited quantities.

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"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar

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88MauSporter
.375 member

Reged: 06/06/07
Posts: 530
Loc: Alaska / Texas

Re: Any intrest in LT caps? [Re: gatsby]
#102736 - 18/04/08 06:34 AM

Please feed the starving masses. I know of paradox bore guns, but am not familiar with the LT capped projectiles. I have seen capped hollow points. If you could describe them and their intended use, and / or supply a photo that would be interesting.
I have never owned a paradox or a bore rifle. I do find them very interesting.
Thanks for any further info.

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"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter

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Marrakai
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3598
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia

Re: Any intrest in LT caps? [Re: 88MauSporter]
#102758 - 18/04/08 01:01 PM

Quote:

supply a photo

88Mau:
Here's a drawing of the 'LT Capped' projectile, including a cross-section:

The photo below shows a WR 'Super Magnum' Explorer 12-bore cartridge on the right.

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Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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gatsby
.375 member

Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA

Re: Any intrest in LT caps? [Re: 88MauSporter]
#102760 - 18/04/08 01:10 PM

And Marakai an LT in the flesh

and disected

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar

Edited by gatsby (18/04/08 01:21 PM)

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Sarg
.400 member

Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil

Re: Any intrest in LT caps? [Re: gatsby]
#102787 - 18/04/08 10:53 PM

And another Two !

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bouldersmith
.375 member

Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 627
Loc: Boulder Colorado

Re: Any intrest in LT caps? [Re: Sarg]
#102788 - 18/04/08 11:02 PM

It looks as though the caps themselves are of a uniform thickness, except for the very tip of the cone which looks thinner. Has anyone measured one? If so, how thick is the cap itself?

Gatsby,
I should be recieving some stuff in the mail, though I'm unsure what exactly, from Mr. Millar, he was too busy to talk much yesterday.
Steve

--------------------
New website http://www.bertramandco.com

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88MauSporter
.375 member

Reged: 06/06/07
Posts: 530
Loc: Alaska / Texas

Re: Any intrest in LT caps? [Re: bouldersmith]
#102793 - 18/04/08 11:24 PM

Thanks much for the info and photos! Amazing projectiles. This seems to bring the term of EXPRESS to a higher level!! Ultra light for the bore diameter and still Aerodynamic. This would be quite the thin skinned game gun. The invention and innovation of the last decades of the 19th and first of the 20th centuries was amazing.

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"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter

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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Any intrest in LT caps? [Re: gatsby]
#103019 - 21/04/08 04:14 AM

Wouldn't it be lovely if they started to manufacture these again. There's so much interest these days..

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gatsby
.375 member

Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA

Re: Any intrest in LT caps? [Re: ]
#103021 - 21/04/08 04:35 AM

Drop/Sin/Death
It would bring an extra measure of performance to these guns not seen in 100 years. It is what your Faunetas were made for, 150yds+.

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"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar

Edited by gatsby (21/04/08 04:39 AM)

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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Any intrest in LT caps? [Re: gatsby]
#103098 - 22/04/08 12:40 AM

gat/s/by,

How's your little Fauneta doing by the way?

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gatsby
.375 member

Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA

Re: Any intrest in LT caps? [Re: ]
#103165 - 22/04/08 12:22 PM

It's coming, it's coming!

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar

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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Any intrest in LT caps? [Re: gatsby]
#103240 - 23/04/08 12:58 AM

Niiiice! You should get your ammo ordered now, it does take some time to make these loads up.

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Glenn_Fewless
.300 member

Reged: 08/05/08
Posts: 103
Loc: Wisconsin, USA

Re: Any intrest in LT caps? [Re: bouldersmith]
#105710 - 21/05/08 03:27 AM

Mr. Bouldersmith:

Are you looking for an exact duplication of the LT capped projectile or would you accept a reasonable facsimile thereof? For a relatively short run it would be far cheaper to machine the caps in one piece rather than build the tooling required to form and crimp the two shells. The machined version would be somewhat heavier. The only real difference would be that the hollow would be cylindrical rather than "arrowhead" shaped, maybe a 10%- 20% increase in mass. If required that could easily offset by reducing the mass of the lead a small ammount. Or make the cap of aluminum.

Prototypes could be done on a manual lathe, and the production run on a fancy CNC machine for relatively small money.

Glenn

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27014
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Any intrest in LT caps? [Re: Glenn_Fewless]
#105737 - 21/05/08 08:20 AM

Hey Sarg - that powder looks like a mix of mouse nest and attic bat droppings. Can be found in most old Ontario houses. Very enlightening to see the cross-section - thanks. Note there is no wad between the bullet's base wad and the powder and there is actually a step inside the case's paper liner to stop the wad from 'falling' to the powder. The inner paper liner actually reduces the inner capacity to better utilize the 'nitro-for-black powder in the load.
: Really good photo's with useful information for handloaders.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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bouldersmith
.375 member

Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 627
Loc: Boulder Colorado

Re: Any intrest in LT caps? [Re: DarylS]
#105744 - 21/05/08 10:29 AM

Glenn,
I've got the gun shooting now with standard bluff style paradox bullets. I want to try the LT caps to extend the range of said gun. Increasing the weight of the bullet may create issues with regulation, pressure(its towards the high end now) and recoil. I wanted to try to get as close to the original as possible....but I want to see them finished someday too. Soo many projects, so little time.
Steve

--------------------
New website http://www.bertramandco.com

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Glenn_Fewless
.300 member

Reged: 08/05/08
Posts: 103
Loc: Wisconsin, USA

Re: Any intrest in LT caps? [Re: bouldersmith]
#105756 - 21/05/08 02:56 PM

Steve:

From the pictures of the LT bullets the cap appears to be made of some copper alloy. If that is so there would be no difficulty machining an aluminum cap of equal weight. Barring that it would not take much loss of lead to make up the difference.

I have been facinated by what I have read about the Paradox bullest and would be most interested to see real what really can be done with them.

Glenn

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Marrakai
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3598
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia

Re: Any intrest in LT caps? [Re: Glenn_Fewless]
#105776 - 21/05/08 09:52 PM

I'd be loading them into plastic hulls, so have no aversion to a solid plastic cap. Gotta be easier than ally or copper, and no weight worth considering. I keep searching the toy-stores for some bulk-pack of little plastic fir-trees or some-such that could function as an LT Cap. Put your thinking caps on, lads! There must be something out there the right size and shape....

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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peter
removed

Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark

Re: Any intrest in LT caps? [Re: Marrakai]
#105778 - 21/05/08 10:20 PM

marrakai

could you be so kind and write down, what is the size shape and weight of the LT cap.

best regards

peter

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gatsby
.375 member

Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA

Re: Any intrest in LT caps? [Re: Marrakai]
#105784 - 21/05/08 11:34 PM

Marrikai
Caps turned from nylon are way light I also believe keeping to the original dementions and weight distribution of the bullets will be key in getting them to regulate past 150yds, but I could be wrong. Holland tried various materials for caps including wood.

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27014
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Any intrest in LT caps? [Re: gatsby]
#105791 - 22/05/08 12:33 AM

The caps appear to be a hardened brass or bronze to me.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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bouldersmith
.375 member

Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 627
Loc: Boulder Colorado

Re: Any intrest in LT caps? [Re: DarylS]
#105793 - 22/05/08 01:10 AM

Gatsby,
did I hear through the grape vine that some progress is happening with the cap portion? Good luck with your test loads. I'm trying out the LBT bullets this weekend if my package arrives in time. I like the stats out of the nei mold better in that the weight is closer to original specs, pressures are lower and velocity is also closer to published stats. We will see if there is much difference in how my gun likes them.
Steve

--------------------
New website http://www.bertramandco.com

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Marrakai
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3598
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia

Re: Any intrest in LT caps? [Re: bouldersmith]
#105842 - 22/05/08 01:00 PM

My understanding is that the LT Cap provides only 2 things: aerodynamics, and extra length for stability at a faster twist rate. Its weight or composition is entirely irrelevant and the lighter it can be made, the more weight can be left in the actual slug where it can do the most good.

Injection-molded plastic should be fine IMHO.

I'll measure a cap on the weekend if no-one beats me to it. External dimensions only: I'm not pulling an original apart!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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gatsby
.375 member

Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA

Re: Any intrest in LT caps? [Re: bouldersmith]
#105846 - 22/05/08 01:52 PM

Bouldersmith,
We do have some caps but it is a tedious process and probably not the final solution to producing these in any quantities. I too have some loads to test, maybe tomorrow. I need enough time to photo and chrono the event.

Marrakai,
Plastic would seem to be the way to go. I can't find my notes but I think nylon was half the weight of the metal cone. That has been just a part of the puzzle though. Untill just recently getting the velocity while keeping the pressures right had been a problem. The loads we are shooting now are a bit higher in pressure than the original cartridge but safe. Those Brits were on to something with their turbo primed loads.

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar

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