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hoppdoc
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Loc: Southeastern USA

416 Ruger, Best 416 of all??
#101478 - 04/04/08 06:00 AM

Rifleshooter had an article about the 375 Ruger necked up to 416. Of course J Sundra does this and calls it "his wildcat", the 416 JRS.

Irregardless the water volume of the cartridge to the neck is similar to the 416 Remington so similar ballistics to the 416 should be obtainable--and big surprise(yawn), YES they are.

So now we have a wildcat with a standard cartridge length and 416 ballistics.Am I going to get rid of my 416 Rem--nope,my 416 Rigby--nope!!

Am I going to rush out and buy one if the factory makes this new "wundercartridge"?? NOPE!!

Does it have utility?? Yes if you want to convert a standard length action to a 416 cartridge.

Now I guess we will wait for the 338 Ruger wildcat--Hmmm, the ballistics on that should be similar to the 338 Dakota and 340 Weatherby(yawn again), I can hardly wait!!

How about a 270 Ruger?? Bet that would be a barrel burner!!Think I'll pass on that one too!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: hoppdoc]
#101507 - 04/04/08 10:56 AM

Funny you brought this up as Boddington did a article as well I believe in that same issue--in regards to his favorite cartidges..what really amazed me was after all the hype he has done on the Ruger 375 he states he still favors the .375 H&H..

I have to admit I did NOT think the case would have the same volumne..but apparently it does...none the less..the gun used in the article looked pretty cool.

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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chuck375
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Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: Ripp]
#101542 - 04/04/08 02:47 PM

True so many 300s, 338s, 375s, 416s, but so few 470s for bolt action rifles ...

Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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hoppdoc
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Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA

Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: chuck375]
#101547 - 04/04/08 03:24 PM

You have the 470 capstick of course--

BUT!!

I do think Heym did make some 470 NE bolts!! A rimmed cartridge for a bolt! Unusual-- how that would be made to work reliably?

I do have a 303 jungle gun that doesn't impress me and doesn't feed that reliably--

Reconsidering- a 7mm wildcat Ruger would have the capacity of a STW in a standard length action-that means 160 gr @ 3200 fps- interesting indeed!

Edited by hoppdoc (04/04/08 03:28 PM)

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dnovo
.333 member

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Posts: 490
Loc: Chicago & SE Wisconsin

Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: hoppdoc]
#101562 - 04/04/08 10:26 PM

I have a 470 Capstick, in both a Gary Reeder single shot Beast and a reworked, shorten, 'chopped, cropped and muzzlebrake and restocked' Rem 700 bolt action. Great round. There is also a Hagn 470 NE single shot floating around. Lots of neat stuff if you look. Dave

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels

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chuck375
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Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO

Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: dnovo]
#101575 - 05/04/08 12:15 AM

Yup I'm planning on converting my 375 H&H to 470 Capstick this coming winter. There's the 470 Mbogo also (a little too much recoil for me as is the 475 A&M). How do you like your 470 Capstick?

Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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DarylS
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: chuck375]
#101579 - 05/04/08 12:38 AM

.416 Taylor with the belt turned off (I hate belts that aren't needed) fits standard action lengths, does 2,400fps with 400gr. & OK in African heat. We didn't need the .461 Ruger, but what the heck- 1/2 the fun in this sport for many of us is changing cases and buying chambering reamers for them - then working up loads.
; Too bad he used such an odd case, not available except in .375Ruger factory ammo. That was a poor choice.
; The .416 Taylor can be made from any 2.5" or longer mag brass.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by Daryl_S (06/04/08 12:11 AM)

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allenday
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Posts: 318

Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: hoppdoc]
#101583 - 05/04/08 01:07 AM

This whole new-cartridge game tends to be a farce, and it's much more about mental gymnastics and new rifle and ammo sales than it is about any sort of practical reality.

The 416 Ruger won't do one single thing that the well-established 416 Rem. Mag. and 416 Rigby won't do at least as well, so..........

AD

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dnovo
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: chuck375]
#101610 - 05/04/08 08:40 AM

I like it a whole lot. Dave

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels

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Schamankungulo
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Reged: 21/04/07
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Loc: Southeastern USA

Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: dnovo]
#101638 - 05/04/08 11:51 AM

The old thing of they have to come up with new stuff to sell , but I aint getting rid of one 416 to buy another of similar performance ..

And I'm not one to run out and buy , jus cause it's new ..

Boddington is good , and Sundra gets under my skin some , but they dont impress me with their newest , latest and greatest creations and buyouts to the manufacturers ..

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dnovo
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Posts: 490
Loc: Chicago & SE Wisconsin

Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: Schamankungulo]
#101674 - 05/04/08 08:09 PM

Quote:

The old thing of they have to come up with new stuff to sell , but I aint getting rid of one 416 to buy another of similar performance ..

And I'm not one to run out and buy , jus cause it's new ..

Boddington is good , and Sundra gets under my skin some , but they dont impress me with their newest , latest and greatest creations and buyouts to the manufacturers ..

Amen, brother. The guns and ammo business needs some more sales, so we get the latest round of 'newest and greatest and sell your old crap and buy the newer and better.' Newer=Better. Bullshit.

Notice all the "new and improved" cartridges lately? The 375 Ruger is going to make the old, tired 375H&H go away because it is soo much better than that or any other cartridge in that range? Why? Well it will work in a shorter action? Okay, and then . . . ? Ditto for the 416.

The spate of 416s came about as a result of the 416 Rigby ammo getting hard to obtain, and the various wildcats (416 Taylor etc) being eclipsed by the 416 Remington, which then spawned renewed interest in the 416 bullet and then we got the Dakota, the Weatherby, etc. That, of course, brougth back factory loadings of the 416 Rigby, which is now selling very well and the others fading back.

No we bring in the gun shills (pardon me, writers) who make their living writing for magazines that make their money not on subscriptions, but on ads from the companies who need to sell you a new rifle to make a living and have to convince you to sell off that old and lesser-performing Rigby or H&H chambered gun for a new one. How do you do that, develop a 'better' cartridge, which requires a new rifle, and a new group of ads, and that means articles touting the new loads written by those who must say so to keep eating.

Nothing evil or nasty about that, just the facts of the business. The more things change, the more they stay the same. I'm not selling off my Rigbys or my 375 H&H guns to buy this weeks wonder cartridge. Dave

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels

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hoppdoc
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Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA

Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: dnovo]
#101676 - 05/04/08 08:47 PM

What the gun manufacturors don't realize is that the majority of the guys buying guns who aren't buying 30.06's or 270 or other deer rounds are those who already have MANY RIFLES and don't need the latest wundergun shooting the same bullet at a similar speed out of a similar bolt--we may not be the sharpest tool in the shed but our generation wasn't born yesterday!!

If we look at such guns it is for unique circumstances!!
We already have a gun that shoots the SAME!!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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Yochanan
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: hoppdoc]
#181058 - 08/05/11 08:13 AM

I have stopped reading the gun magazines pimping all these new "enhanced" cartridges. My next 416 will be a 416 Rigby no matter what Sundra, Boddington or the other gun press gigolos predict and pimp - yawn.

If a cartridge has not been around for more than 50 years, why bother?(mega yawn)

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.

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fourbore
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Posts: 70
Loc: NewEngland

Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: Yochanan]
#181075 - 08/05/11 12:52 PM

You know this kind of practical talk and classical bent would get you all banned over on the AR forum. Well, that and criticism of muzzle brakes and rebated rims. I expressed this same view on the 375/416 Ruger and you would think I spat on the pope. And GD, here we have 13 posts in a row all saying the same thing.

There is a guy over there who is going to run an experiment to 'prove' the 375 Ruger is BETTER than the 375H&H. Not equall in a short ctg, but significantly better. The great efficiency of the sharper shoulder. When I suggest there might be some feeding advantage to the long tapered 375H&H that offset any marginal efficiency of the new Ruger -- oh my good, all hell broke loose again.

There has also been a few reports of feeding and extraction problems with some of the 375 Rugers. Nothing ever sorted out clearly. I suspect a combination of Superformance loading and new gun bugs by Ruger. One guy claimed he got two lemons in a row! He sounded credible to me, but was clearly not believed by a few of the more outspoken AR members. Maybe just a few lemons.

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portdivers
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Loc: Vic. Australia

Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: fourbore]
#181118 - 09/05/11 01:05 AM

I'd rather trust a cartridge that has been around nearly 100 years. If it wasn't a proven performer, why would it take this long to improve it. I own and shoot a 416 Rigby, to be fair I haven't shot a 416 Ruger, but let's face it, we're over the spin.

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Yochanan
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: fourbore]
#181121 - 09/05/11 02:59 AM

Quote:

You know this kind of practical talk and classical bent would get you all banned over on the AR forum.

Sure, I accomplished that long ago - no longer one of them

It's so easy

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.

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Huvius
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: Yochanan]
#181122 - 09/05/11 03:39 AM

Funny that Ruger was the company to introduce these cartridges in light of the fact that they were offering reasonably priced magnum length rifles for some time.
I agree that not much has been improved upon over the last 80 years or so.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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458Win
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: Huvius]
#181123 - 09/05/11 04:16 AM

OK, just to stir the pot - and because I actually believe it -

THE .416 RUGER IS THE BEST OF THE .416's.

At least in theory.

The truth is there never have been many 416s and probably never will be and it will be a long time before the Ruger makes any dent in the market.

--------------------
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: 458Win]
#181125 - 09/05/11 04:31 AM

As some of you have said above there is NOTHING that cannot be done with a .22 LR, a 12 bore shotgun, a .30-06, a .375 H&H (substitute a .416 Rigby if you like) and a big .470 or .500. All of these are nearly or more than 100 years old BUT the writers and advertisers have to keep making money, no one blames them for that, we all have a living to make, just don´t expect me to swallow it all !

best, Mike

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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England

Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: Mike_Bailey]
#181126 - 09/05/11 06:21 AM

So much .416 hype, I think I'll stick to a .404 - especially with the new North Fork 435gr and Woodleigh 450gr pills!

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fourbore
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Posts: 70
Loc: NewEngland

Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: JabaliHunter]
#181127 - 09/05/11 06:52 AM

Quote:

THE .416 RUGER IS THE BEST OF THE .416's.

At least in theory.

I'll take the bait. I think even a highly subjective and biased "BEST" has to be put in context.

First you have to define best, and depending on what is your definition or theory you can contrive a reasonable argument for almost any cartridge. And probably based on that same definition, another could come back with a new design or propose something already out there is better. It never ends and gets pretty pointless after a while. IMHO.

If I want a 40 cal CZ550, I think I could make a good argument the 416 Rigby was better. if another wanted to build one size rifle for all hunting from lowest cost, they might propose the Ruger was better. If I had an M70, I might propose a 404 was best, while Winchester might argue the 416 rem was better and you would want the Ruger.

What counts for you? A 100 years of success in the field? Availability or fit in a certain gun? Brass and bullet availability? Shortest possible OAL? No belt? Sharp shoulder? Good body taper & gentle shoulder for feeding? Burning the least amount of powder to hit a certain magic fps number? Or maximum versatile in what powders will deliver. Does it have to reloadable in some African country that only has access to limited powders? Do you want to be able too use cheap bulk powder? Do you favor low pressure or hi velocity? What velocity is optimum? Large variety of factory loads? Ammo available anywhere in the world?

Define your requirements and make your choice ... Or ... Pick you favorite first and contrive a set of conditions that justify that choice. Either way same game.

I'll generally favor one of the old classics. In .45 there is really none for a magazine rifle. That leaves the Lott as best and most popular in class. By my definition of best.

The somewhat insidious problem with what Ruger has done is they are diluting an already very thin market. You can find 375H&H ammo for reasonable. So far. If we had one good standard 40, you probably could do the same there. As much as I think Winchester screwed up with the 458WM, in the old days there was a fair shot you might find 458 ammo in a well stocked shop and there was some price competition. Today we are lucky if even one company will load ammo for our pet big bore and be prepared to get reamed out if its anyone but Hornady.

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458Win
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Posts: 340
Loc: Alaska

Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: fourbore]
#181129 - 09/05/11 07:08 AM

I am not trying to convince anyone to change - as the difference on game between any of the 416 is not enough to notice - although I'm sure there are plenty who would love to argue that. I am not considering ammo available either.
But the fact is that the original 416 Rigby was designed for temperature sensitive cordite powder and as such requires an overly large action, and the orginal Rigbys were overly large rifles.
With any of today's powders it is easy to reach original Rigby ballistics with smaller cases and still keep pressures to acceptable levels for use in the tropics, while carrying a slimmer, lighter rifle.
For that reason I claim the Ruger is theoretically the best . The Remington is also good but, while the ability to use a shorter action may seem like nit-picking on the rifle range, when you are under stress it really is noticable. Bell and numerous other notible African PH's have stated so as well.

--------------------
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

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fourbore
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Posts: 70
Loc: NewEngland

Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: 458Win]
#181132 - 09/05/11 08:11 AM

458 thats very logical all around. While I know a very light 375H&H can be built. For a truely light 40, I probably look at the 404J. A 416 Rigby could be (and is) made light enough for me, but not for everyone. It is big, really big case. Nothing will change the fact 416Ruger gets is done and has a shorter bolt throw and fits almost any gun. Its shorter than the Remington too. Same length as the Taylor, though, which seems good nuff.

Here is the rub, in my view. If we start to see 416Ruger gain acceptance with more guns more loads offered. And the generally accepted reason is shorter bolt throw, guess what? Some company will find a way to make a 416 shorter and the owners of 416 Rugers end up high and dry like the 416 Rem guys were until recently. And the 416 Rem situation is still pretty crappy.

I am pretty sure there will remain a healthy demand for the Rigby and Jeff based on tradition. My best. The new and improved guys will jump ship right away.

Today all big 40 shooters are up against it with ammo costs. And no hope in sight of any one gaining an edge to change that. It is nice to see those $40(+/-?) green boxes of 375H&H ammo.

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NitroX
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: Mike_Bailey]
#181163 - 09/05/11 09:10 PM

Quote:

As some of you have said above there is NOTHING that cannot be done with a .22 LR, a 12 bore shotgun, a .30-06, a .375 H&H (substitute a .416 Rigby if you like) and a big .470 or .500. All of these are nearly or more than 100 years old BUT the writers and advertisers have to keep making money, no one blames them for that, we all have a living to make, just don´t expect me to swallow it all ! best, Mike

Well said.

Almost none of the new cartridges in the last twenty years do anything that the cartridges invented about a hundred years ago can not do.

And the modern ones ... will less style and sophistication.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA

Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: fourbore]
#182212 - 23/05/11 04:39 AM

Quote:

You know this kind of practical talk and classical bent would get you all banned over on the AR forum. Well, that and criticism of muzzle brakes and rebated rims. I expressed this same view on the 375/416 Ruger and you would think I spat on the pope. And GD, here we have 13 posts in a row all saying the same thing.

There is a guy over there who is going to run an experiment to 'prove' the 375 Ruger is BETTER than the 375H&H. Not equall in a short ctg, but significantly better. The great efficiency of the sharper shoulder. When I suggest there might be some feeding advantage to the long tapered 375H&H that offset any marginal efficiency of the new Ruger -- oh my good, all hell broke loose again.

There has also been a few reports of feeding and extraction problems with some of the 375 Rugers. Nothing ever sorted out clearly. I suspect a combination of Superformance loading and new gun bugs by Ruger. One guy claimed he got two lemons in a row! He sounded credible to me, but was clearly not believed by a few of the more outspoken AR members. Maybe just a few lemons.

I know what you mean about the donnibrooks fostered by anything new on the rifle market, but it has no more to do with AR than any other "BIG BORE" forum on any web-site! There will always be those who simply think anything new has to be an improvement, while there will be thos who are prone to the tried and true older cartridges cannot be improved on, or if it can the gain is somehow not worth the trouble.

In my experience the big bore forums are the place where you will find most of these head to head confontations. This is because the big bore forums are where most of the kids think of a 30-06 to be a big bore, and anything bigger is ultra big bore. Pair this with a web-site where the most frequinted forums are double rifles, or the hunting of African game, and you will have two very different opinions about what is a big bore, and what is simply something designed to sell magazines, and/or new rifles. This website being based in OZ, geared to hunting the north end's water buffalo and feral cattle, or one like AR that is mostly in the Africa mood, there will be those with lots of real experience with all types of rifles, and cartridges, but both will have youngsters who only think they know it all, and are so young they take great exception to a different opinion that doesn't agree with theirs.

I don't think you will find a web-site anyplace where this is not the case, including NE and AR! There are simply people on the internet that want nothing more than to find someone to put down, to make their take on a subject look better. Then there are those who actually know what they are talking about but want nothing more than to use that knowledge like a club to batter others over the head instead of teaching. This last example is the one that does the most damage IMO, and this type is on every web-site on the internet, regardless of the subject at hand!

.....................................................

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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Ben
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Posts: 1917
Loc: Northern Territory, Australia

Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: DUGABOY1]
#182224 - 23/05/11 07:21 AM

To give my opinion on the title of this thread: No, that would be the .416 Rigby. I admit that I am happily biased.

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ant458
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Loc: georgia usa

Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: Ben]
#182571 - 26/05/11 11:46 AM

hey guys first id like to say i like all big bore rifles they all have there place but lets look at the 2 areas that big bores fall in on one side u have hunting rifles and then u have stopping rifles all the 416s qualify as both as do the 458 win mag and 404 jeff but look at the 416 ruger in a different way its 20 in barrel is shorter makeing it lighter ande quiker to weild its just about rite for a phs back up rifle plus it has great iron sights that a quick to pick up fast that why i bilt my 460 mag with a 22 in barrel wat realy matters how it fits u

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Freeloader123
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Loc: Dallas, Texas

Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: 458Win]
#182704 - 28/05/11 06:19 PM

Quote:

But the fact is that the original 416 Rigby was designed for temperature sensitive cordite powder and as such requires an overly large action, and the orginal Rigbys were overly large rifles.

...while the ability to use a shorter action may seem like nit-picking on the rifle range, when you are under stress it really is noticable.

Phil, I have to admit I'm somewhat nervous about disagreeing with any of your opinions as I'm aware of your reputation and experience and I know I'm not nearly in the same league.

But, in my personal opinion, lightweight rifles are over-rated. I don't find my CZ550 Safari Mag objectionable. And it's a joy to shoot (5,000 ft/lbs at the muzzle and it coddles me!). But then, I'll occassionally hunt with my Garand or M1A. My attitude is that if it feels too heavy, I need to work out. Not get a lighter rifle.

I suppose I owe a debt of gratitude to the Marines. One of the early tortures the DI's put you through at Aviation Officer's Candidate School is a rifle run with a de-mil'd Garand they issue you as a drill weapon. Three miles in deep sand on the beach at Pensacola. Most people are dying by the end. Your arms feel like somebody filled them with lead and are about to fall off. But, if you don't get weeded out, at the end of your training the DI's take you on a "celebratory" rifle run. And it's the funniest thing; your Garand is light as a feather. It's lost at least 50 pounds since the first time you ran on the beach with it.

I'm not in that kind of shape anymore, but I haven't let myself go to the point where the difference between a Ruger .416-sized action and a Rigby-sized action is a deal breaker.

As far as bolt-throw goes, I am under impression a lot of people develop bad habits at the range that they take into the field. I don't baby the bolt. If you saw me shoot, you'd probably think I hate my rifle.

It's important to develop muscle memory. The bolt is going back until it stops. I figure if the lugs can withstand whatever amount of pressure the cartridge generates, they can take whatever force I can deliver to them.

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jcs271
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: Freeloader123]
#183824 - 16/06/11 07:14 AM

I suppose another factor is that the RUGER rifles on top of being a very affordable and ruggedly well made rifle, the factory ammo is SUBSTANTIALLY more affordable. A box of 375ruger is 20-30% less than a comparable box of 375HH and my 416ruger ammo is less than one third of the price of a comparable box of 416rigby. For many of us that is a huge difference for the same performance! That cost difference alone was a big part of my buying a ruger in both 375 and 416.

--------------------
"carrying a fine rifle in good country makes a man feel like a King."

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fourbore
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: jcs271]
#183897 - 16/06/11 08:19 PM

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/...%3Bcat104532480

At the above link, cabelas, you will see Remington 375 H&H for $54.That is less cost that 375 Ruger ammo which is available from only one source only, Hornady. The 375Ruger and 375H7H by Hornady were, the last time I looked, priced the same. The H&H has a big advantage in selection and availability and in this case, even better pricing. You also special see sales and used boxes of H&H ammo on occasion.

I would not say the Ruger is any more rugged than Winchester or any (or most) Mauser based rifle. Nothing wrong with Ruger, I think a good value for the buck. I'd take a new Winchester M70 in 375, over a Ruger, just my choice. There are sure a lot more choices of guns in 375H&H than the one or two models by Ruger.

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: fourbore]
#183904 - 16/06/11 09:27 PM

WHY anyone would choose a .375 other than the .375 H&H is BEYOND me. If you buy a rifle in that calibre you are presumably going to Africa or the boondocks somewhere (OK, some chaps just like big calibres for fun). If you get where you are going and your ammo doesn´t arrive ???? you have about as much chance of finding all that odd .375 stuff anywhere in Africa or anywhere else outside big US suppliers as you have of going back in time and meeting Sophia Loren circa 1955 who then asks if she can buy you a drink "big boy" !! Having said all that mine is the flanged version so I must be mad !

best, Mike

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DarylS
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: Mike_Bailey]
#183934 - 17/06/11 01:28 AM

Friend of mine has a brand new Ruger .375 - and a Weather Warrior.375H&H - mine - which feeds perfectly - a foul weather rifle indeed.

He has a number of belted magnums - always in possession of at least one .338WinMag & a .375H&H - deceided he wanted to try the rimmless .375Ruger - it kinda matches the appearance of his favourite hunting ctg., the 8x68SMagnum, another beltless, rimmless magnum.

Why indeed? - because they are there for the trying. His first and favourite rimless, beltless magnum was the 9.5x68 I chambered up (originally a McGowen .376/06IMP), then worked up loads for, then sold him for cheap. He used it for a number of years, like the 2,900fps iwth 270gr. for long range moose killing, then sold it to his brother, who wore the barrel out, he liked shooting it so much.
After about 15 thousand rounds, I have that original barrel - now shortened and chambered to a .375/.350Rem. - HA! gotta love change & experimentation!

He may go to Africa, may not. Some guys like to have a variety of 3/8" rifles.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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CommandCar
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: DarylS]
#183969 - 17/06/11 08:31 AM

Daryl,

Great story. Thanks for sharing.

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Reggie
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: hoppdoc]
#188101 - 18/08/11 11:54 AM

Go to any Sporting Goods store and check out two things - the Guns (of course) and the Fishing Tackle - but do the Fishing stuff first. You will see rows and rows of the most God-awful ugly lures made of clumps of feather/lead/plastic/steel and crammed into Chinese Open-Proof packaging. Most of these lures will be so large, gaudy or just plain ugly that you cannot imagine a fish wanting to even look at them, much less bite on them. The reason for this is that these lures are there to CATCH FISHERMEN - NOT FISH!

Once you have seen the fishing section, go to the Guns and see if any of the "new stuff" really has any meaning or appeal.

If I can't take it with my .416 Taylor, I probably shouldn't have started the fight!

Reggie

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poprivit
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: Reggie]
#188146 - 19/08/11 03:46 AM

Well, I've got a Ruger .416. It's got a Mag-Na-Brake and a large recoil pad. Still kicks like a rabid mule - rather light rifle methinks. Why a .416 Ruger? Well, I've hunted Africa with a Remington .416, a Ruger Magnum in .458 Lott, and a .577 NE. Now I'm taking my .416 Ruger - just to be different, that's all. The Cape buffalo don't know the difference, do they?

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86thecat
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: poprivit]
#188683 - 27/08/11 12:40 PM

So how many rounds of the stubby Ruger round fit into the magazine compared to the 416 Rem? An extra round might be important when hunting something that bites back.

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Rule303
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: 86thecat]
#188750 - 28/08/11 07:57 PM

Quote:

So how many rounds of the stubby Ruger round fit into the magazine compared to the 416 Rem? An extra round might be important when hunting something that bites back.

Good point. My 416 Rigby CZ550 holds 4 in the mag one in the chamber. From memory the Ruger holds 3 in the mag.

Edited by Rule303 (28/08/11 08:00 PM)

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HogPilot
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: Rule303]
#190561 - 23/09/11 03:55 PM

I got into a bit of a pissing contest on AR with a guy who has "lots of experience" over which 416 is best. He's on this forum as well so I don't want to kick that argument off again but I will say that the Rigby is my favorite. I just appreciate the history of the classics and the sound design that made them popular for all these years. How many "new" designs have come and gone, been invented, faded, and re-invented with a new name over the years, all the while the classics just keep on trucking along! That being said, from what I've seen so far, I like NE better than AR for a place to hang out. It seems, so far, that differences of opinion are more tolerated here.

By the way, I also ran those "Rifle Runs" at Aviation Officer Candidates school with the Marine DI's back in 85 and agree that a little bit heaver gun just means a little more work in the gym instead of getting rid of what works for something "New". I'm not in the kind of shape I once was, but I just don't think I have ever been on a hunt where I thought to myself that my rifle was imposing with its weight. My belly yes, my rifle no! That includes hunting the San Juan Mountains, steep and high, in Southwest Colorado for Elk, hauling a Wby Mark V, 340 Mag fully loaded.

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458Win
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: HogPilot]
#190588 - 24/09/11 03:30 AM

The extra work in the gym theory sounds good but somehow it doesn't work out in practise. I humped a 22 pound M-60 and 30 pounds of belted ammo ( along with a pack full of supplies) in the highlands of Vietnam for six months but now that I am old enough to receive Social Security and still hiking the wilderness of Alaska I prefer a lighter rifle. In my opinion the short, light little Ruger Alaskan in either 416 or 375 is the best wilderness rifle anyone has ever offered.

--------------------
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

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DarylS
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: 458Win]
#190591 - 24/09/11 04:12 AM

Quote:

The extra work in the gym theory sounds good but somehow it doesn't work out in practise. I humped a 22 pound M-60 and 30 pounds of belted ammo ( along with a pack full of supplies) in the highlands of Vietnam for six months but now that I am old enough to receive Social Security and still hiking the wilderness of Alaska I prefer a lighter rifle. In my opinion the short, light little Ruger Alaskan in either 416 or 375 is the best wilderness rifle anyone has ever offered.

THE ABOVE being from someone who's there 24/7, holds weight.

On the other hand, I hunt fairly close to home and 10 pounds for my .375 isn't too bad. Was even thinking of using my 12 1/2 pound Sharps this fall. At 6'1" @ 240lbs. - I find it's not that heavy, but I'm not climbing mountains, either - pretty much flat where I hunt. Terrain mades a BIG difference along wiht how far you have to walk.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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HogPilot
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: DarylS]
#190606 - 24/09/11 09:38 AM

Quote:

Quote:

The extra work in the gym theory sounds good but somehow it doesn't work out in practise. I humped a 22 pound M-60 and 30 pounds of belted ammo ( along with a pack full of supplies) in the highlands of Vietnam for six months but now that I am old enough to receive Social Security and still hiking the wilderness of Alaska I prefer a lighter rifle. In my opinion the short, light little Ruger Alaskan in either 416 or 375 is the best wilderness rifle anyone has ever offered.

A 22 pound rifle with 30 pounds of belted ammo is NOT what we are talking about here. We are talking about an extra few ounces, maybe a pound, difference at the max, not an extra 12 pounds of rifle and 28 pounds of ammo for a difference of 40 pounds. As I said in my earlier post, I've carried my share of "heavy" rifles even climbing mountains but I've yet to lug around anything that felt more obtrusive than my other rifles.

As a side note, since you mentioned it: Thanks for your service and especially in a war that was not popular when you returned. And I mean that sincerely.

Todd Williams

Edited by HogPilot (24/09/11 11:34 AM)

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458Win
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: HogPilot]
#190626 - 24/09/11 02:16 PM

When you climb 2000 feet with a rifle that weighs only one pound extra, you have in effect lifted and extra ton of weight. It does add up at the end of a long day.

--------------------
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

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HogPilot
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: 458Win]
#190633 - 24/09/11 06:03 PM

Na. You've lifted 1 pound, 2,000 feet!

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bigjedd
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: HogPilot]
#190850 - 27/09/11 07:11 PM

Ok I have a few views on this subject that I would like to share
1) This talk about arriving somewhere without your ammo to me is a mute point. It dosent matter what calibre you have usually the ammo would be secure in your suitcase so if the ammo goes missing so do your clothes. The rifle is usually carried in a gun case seperate from your suit case and that is more likely to go missing than the ammo although both happen.

2) On the weight issue these days with all the modern electric gadgetry and trichery stuff that hunters carry in their day packs adds up to more weight carried needlessly than the diference in weights of rifles. Also 1/2 pound of extra weight in a pair of hunting boots will do more to create a crook back and fatigue than carrying the 1/2 to 1 pound extra in a hunting rifle .

3) On the original question "416 ruger best 416 of all?" I would say no . But if you ask is it the best modern times creation in 416 calibre I would say yes. Being realistic about this we can say that the 416 rigby or weatherby will out shoot the 416 ruger every time with beefed up loads and we would be correct. However the 416 calibre was designed to be shot with a 400-410gr bullet at 2400fps. Arguing the rigby has worked well for over ex amount of years is flawed. Any of the 416's available will do what the rigby was designed to do and that is all they need to do nothing more nothing less. Once you start looking at pushing higher velocities to prove the rigby is better you then need to look at the bullet construction and performance at the higher velocities.

For what I want to hunt the Ruger short barrel and resultant performance figures work for me.
A couple of examples:

1)400gr Woodleigh bullets at 2376fps Woodleighs velocity range 1800 to 2200 impact velocity.
Any Animal needing this bullet weight would most likely be shot within 100yds. No need for more velocity

2)340gr Woodleigh bullet at 2655fps Woodleighs velocity range 1900 to 2400fps impact velocity.
On plains game out to 250 to 300yds this load will do everything on offer.

Don,t think I need much more than these 2 loads to hunt anything on the planet.

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Ripp
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: 458Win]
#190858 - 27/09/11 11:36 PM

Quote:

The extra work in the gym theory sounds good but somehow it doesn't work out in practise. I humped a 22 pound M-60 and 30 pounds of belted ammo ( along with a pack full of supplies) in the highlands of Vietnam for six months but now that I am old enough to receive Social Security and still hiking the wilderness of Alaska I prefer a lighter rifle. In my opinion the short, light little Ruger Alaskan in either 416 or 375 is the best wilderness rifle anyone has ever offered.

IMHO, the extra work does pay off HOWEVER it really depends on how you work out and what you do..are you training for a specific goal or type of activity or are you one of those that is too busy reading a magazine while working out that the physical exertion is more of a by-product??

Personally I see that all the time when in the gym...

Agree, nothing prepares you like the real deal...but, it certainly does help to be in the best condition one can be prior to hunt..the body is an amazing thing and will adapt quite readily and more quickly if already in shape...

Personally for the past 6 months we have been doing routines called cross-fit..sure many of you have either done them or heard of them..but in incorporates lifting and aerobic activity without a break to rest--typically we go for 45 minutes straight...it is amazing the conditioning this produces...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Ripp
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: bigjedd]
#190860 - 27/09/11 11:40 PM

Quote:

Ok I have a few views on this subject that I would like to share

2) On the weight issue these days with all the modern electric gadgetry and trichery stuff that hunters carry in their day packs adds up to more weight carried needlessly than the diference in weights of rifles. Also 1/2 pound of extra weight in a pair of hunting boots will do more to create a crook back and fatigue than carrying the 1/2 to 1 pound extra in a hunting rifle .

Don,t think I need much more than these 2 loads to hunt anything on the planet.

Personally think another item many dont think about..loose that extra 5 to 10 lbs off the belly..makes quite a difference as well..

As to the .416 caliber..think it is incredible..however my brand is .416 Rem.---dont think it makes much of a difference--I have 2 loads as well using Barnes solids and SWift A-Frames --both in 400 grains and both shoot to the same POI...makes it really hand...and yes both are around 2450 fps..and you can hunt anything on this planet..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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9.3x57
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: 458Win]
#190861 - 27/09/11 11:59 PM

Quote:

When you climb 2000 feet with a rifle that weighs only one pound extra, you have in effect lifted and extra ton of weight. It does add up at the end of a long day.

I carry a rifle all year long in the mountains here. Every month, every weather condition, all terrain, none of it flat.

Whether this statement by 458Win is mathematically true or not I don't care. I can totally understand his point and it is a good one, as I am continually adjusting this or that to decrease weight or manage it in some way better. Or to manage the balance and length or other "feel" issues that develop with various rifles.

Physical conditioning is an absolute necessity for a whole host of reasons, and I sign on to that committment as well. But if I could inflate my rifles with helium and hold them DOWN as I hiked...well, I'd do it!

Having said that, the recoil equation needs to be calculated. I don't own a .416 but can understand the concern some have for managing recoil with an extra bit of rifle weight.

And thus this issue is and always will be a very personal one for anyone who spends long days afield with a heavy caliber rifle.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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458Win
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: 9.3x57]
#191993 - 17/10/11 11:06 AM

If I didn't already have my 458 and was looking for another backup rifle for our brown bears I would buy a 416 Ruger, trim it like this one, and go hunting.

When you walk all day and then end up having to track a wounded bear in the thickest pucker brush - I have learned to appreciate short, light, rugged and powerful.

--------------------
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

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Rule303
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: 458Win]
#192252 - 21/10/11 12:30 PM

458 Win I can appreciate the use of a short, handy rifle in the thick stuff and light weight certainly helps at the end of the day. If tracking wounded game in very close country I would prefer the short handy rifle.

Not only have we experienced an modernisation of rifle and new cartridges but also bullet construction. It was mentioned earlier that the Rigby ability to push the same projectile at greater speeds than th eother 416 is a moot point. I tend to disagree with this when we look at the Woodleigh Hydroshocks. The makers of these clain that the faster they go the better they work and so far, from what I have read this seems to be the case. Yes a 400grain 416 Hydro at 2400fps will drop anything that walks, there and then but at 2550 it would be even more emphatic. Just be mindfull of over penetration.

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450
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: Rule303]
#192835 - 31/10/11 09:00 PM

I have a Ruger 416 alaskan on order after a lot of research, handling and shooting a 375 Ruger Alaskan. I sold my 458 Mauser (can not afford both). I was at the range today at Little River and there was a gentleman with a 375 Ruger Alaskan and a 416 Ruger alaskan. I was able to handle and fire both rifles and this cemented my decision to buy one. The reason I like the 416 Alaskan is: When I picked it up and bought it to my shoulder it was right on target. The stock was one of the most comfortable factory stocks I have handled. The rifle was lovely and short, handled and swung well. The action cycled beautifully and fed smoothly. It holds 3+1. With hornady factory loads you knew when it went off, but it was not uncomfortable. Less recoil that my 458 but a pound lighter. AND I hit what I was aiming at off the shoulder and that is important to ME. I found it easier to shoot the my CZ 375, and my 458. Does it matter to me that it is not a Rigby, or a taylor or a Remington Magnum. No. Will anything I shoot know the difference (if I do my Part), No. I suppose someone said about most new calibres/cartridges they they were not needed/proven or would not last when they first come out. Just my humble opinion. I can wait for my rifle to get here.

Cheers Wayne

--------------------
The worst days shooting and hunting is better than the best day at work

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450
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: 450]
#205508 - 19/03/12 05:44 PM

Finally picked up my 416 Ruger Alaskan last week and it has now had two trips to the range. The action felt a bit gritty when I first tried it, but is is smoothing out nicely. One gripe was the amount of copper fouling in the barrel when I picked it up. I do not know how many shots Ruger put through it to test it but it took over an hour cleaning to get all the copper out which included a fair bit of work with JB bore compound. This rifle is only 41" long, 20" barrel and weighs nearly 8 pound. The Hogue stock feels great in the hand and I beleive it reduce felt recoil considerably.

I have fired 47 shots with it now without any feeding problems and the barrel is now much easier to clean than when I first got it. I am able to achieve 2300fps with a 400 projectile comfortably and the 340 grn woodleigh is doing over 2500 with Reloader 15. My best 3 shot group of the bench with open sites went 2" at 100 yards. The open sites on this rifle are fixed rear (windage adjustable) and a white bead up front. I find this rifle much more comfortable to fire than my Marlin 1895 with 400 projectiles at 2000 fps.

This is a rifle I would be happy to take into the scrub after anything.

--------------------
The worst days shooting and hunting is better than the best day at work

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DarylS
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: 450]
#205551 - 20/03/12 03:02 AM

450 - get a can of Wipe Out and getting a big or a whole lot of copper out of the barrel happens with just an overnight soak. (barrel angled slightly down, onto a towl for the overnight soak)

I use a mix of 50:50 Kroil Oil and Butches Bore Shine as a quick cleaning solution as well as after the Wipe Out overnight clean.

After using the JB, your 'smoother' bore shouldn't pick up much more copper - we can hope.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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poprivit
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: DarylS]
#205569 - 20/03/12 06:17 AM

Interesting about the copper fouling. I've got a .416 Hawkeye and when I got it, sure, it had been fired, but not very much. No noticeable copper in the bore. Action was stiff, but it smoothed up after 25 rounds through it. I like it so much that I'm going to sell my Ruger #1 450 NE and use the Hawkeye for all the big stuff.

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: poprivit]
#205578 - 20/03/12 08:34 AM

DarylS +1 on the wipe out, that stuff is great, if only they could incorporate a lead "shifter" in it as well it would be perfect for everything, shotguns as well as rifles, best

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DarylS
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: Mike_Bailey]
#205579 - 20/03/12 08:44 AM

As to lead - well - "Lead Away Patches", I think they were/are still called. I don't know the distributor - maybe Kleen Bore, or Birchwood Casey's - maybe also still available in a sheet of impregnated cloth - I still have some.

Have a leaded bore that solvents and brushes can't dislodge? A single "Lead Away Patch" shoved through the bore, and the lead comes out the muzzle on the patch in slivers and chunks - drop them of the cloth right back into the melting pot - yeah - kinda scary. Makes you wonder what it is?

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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450
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Loc: Melbourne,Victoria, Australia

Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: DarylS]
#205586 - 20/03/12 09:50 AM

Daryl, thanks for that. I will look for a can, I have not seen it here. Most bore solvents I will not leave in the barrel over night, but I will give this a try. you are right about the JB bore compound treatment. After 47 rounds it was a matter of a couple of patches with Sweets 7.62 and the barrel was clean with no copper visable. What are "lead away patches".

Poprivit, when I picked it up from the shop there was a large amount of copper visible in the barrel, but now it is great. I do not know if it was a rough barrel or what. The action is a bit stiff and gritty, but it is getting better. Yeah I like the 416 Alaskan better than my 450-400 ruger no #1 I had and the Alaskan feels more comfortable to shoot.

Wayne

--------------------
The worst days shooting and hunting is better than the best day at work

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Indybuster
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: 450]
#208803 - 23/05/12 12:28 PM

An Everyman's baby 416 Rigby.
There are a few of us, wildcatting the Ruger case. You can buy either the basics or the 375 Ruger in virgin brass. I can do both the Basics and the 375 Ruger cases. I started with a re-chambered military stepped 8mm barrel. #2 is the baby 416 Rigby. I wanted to do a knockoff of P.H. Harry Selby's infamous military 98 action job. I kept the half inch long neck of the old Rigby, and streamlined my shoulders.

A smaller diameter 416 Taylor won't go in, without ironing back it's shoulders a bit. This round feeds very nicely through my Colombian Mauser action. This magazine has been lengthened a bit, but not out to 375 H&H length. Still, I can slip a 3.5 inch O.A.L. round down through the top, and into the mag..

I just got back from the Karoo, where I blooded it last week on an old Gnu. I used one Speer 350 gr. Mag Tip, at 2400fps, and it dropped like a sack of spuds. This bullet retained 305 grs, and ended under the skin, just ahead of the off hind quarter.

This rifle is within an ounce or two of Mr. Selby's, and balances right where it's supposed to. The difference is that it has both scope and express (NECG) sights. I use a 24 inch barrel, that's profiled to match the Layne Simpson article on the old P.H.'s rifle, now in Louisiana. I felt it was better to leave more steel in the Mauser receiver, and load to a higher pressure, if needed.

Interestingly, I got some measurements for my custom Hornady New Dimension dies from a Lyman 416 Rigby die set. The F.L. sizer had to be trimmed 0.300" and the seater worked fine, as is. So, I can neck size, expand, seat, and crimp, with the Lyman die set. My custom Hornady F.L. die supports the case better, but both seater dies can bulge the shoulders a mite, when I crimp hard. I then run my loaded and crimped rounds through one of my case forming dies, to iron the shoulders back out.

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Dresden
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: DUGABOY1]
#217386 - 30/09/12 09:09 AM

I bought a CZ550 in 416 Rigby and I like shooting it, I reload the cartridge to 10% less than max.
My next gun was a 416 Ruger, I bought brass and load my cartridges to 2150 fps with 72 grains RL15 and a 400 grain Hornady round nose produaing 4100 ft/lbs of energy. The rifle hardly kicks, a soft push, a boom, and it's pleasant to shoot. I seriously doubt most things in North America could take a hit from this combination. I would like imput from African game hunters about the efectiveness of this velocity and bullet.

Thanks

Edited by Dresden (30/09/12 09:13 AM)

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458Win
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: Dresden]
#217401 - 30/09/12 07:14 PM

The 450/400 made it's reputation with less.

--------------------
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

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DarylS
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Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: 458Win]
#217404 - 01/10/12 12:36 AM

I bought a number packages of this 25 years ago and this is the last one I have.

Just 10 years ago, I bought a package of Kleen Bore Lead Away Patches that came in a blister pack - from Wholesale Sports in Calgary, Alberta.

They are around here somewhere, mostly unused as I've found what works to eliminate leading that sticks in the bore.

This stuff is, as I noted, scary in the way it removes lead- streaks and chunks of lead on the cloth when it comes out the muzzle - amazing. Perhaps it's not allowed any more due to contents, I don't know. Good if it's still available, though and a check with Kleen Bore will answer that.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Dresden
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Reged: 19/06/12
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Loc: Minnesota, USA

Re: 416 Ruger, Best 416 of all?? [Re: DarylS]
#218048 - 16/10/12 12:05 PM

Kleen Bore at Amazon

http://www.amazon.com/Kleenbore-Care-Lead-Away-Cloth/dp/B002IEIDG4

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