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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Handguns

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Checkman
.333 member


Reged: 15/03/08
Posts: 256
Loc: Idaho
Any Webley Fans
      #99521 - 18/03/08 05:45 PM

Anybody out there a fan of the Webley? I don't see any postings for it. I finally got my Mk VI a month ago. It's actually one of the Enfield Mk VI models manufactured in 1925. Apparently Enfield took over manufacturing the Mk VI for a few years (1923-1927) until the No. 2 Mk I (38/200) was introduced.

It's in great condition both in terms of the finish and the mechanical condition. Unfortunately it is one of the 45 acp conversions. So I've taken to loading 45 loads with 5.5 grains of powder. The loads is basically the same as the old 455 Mk II loading.

Anyway just wondering. It's a great revolver. Makes me feel like Michael Caine in Zulu. Even if the movie wasn't correct to have him carrying the Mk VI so what?

The Mk VI has alwasy been one of my "holy grails" and I'm real happy to have finally found one. They aren't real common anymore.


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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3475
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Any Webley Fans [Re: Checkman]
      #99534 - 18/03/08 09:57 PM

The only thing better than a Webley Mk.VI is a pair of Webley Mk.VIs! Here's mine:



Big Webley revolver fan here: one Mk.II .455 (my favourite!), about six Mk.IVs, two Mk.VIs, a couple of Webley-Pryses, two RICs, and a lovely No.2 British Bulldog!


...and a partridge in a pear tree!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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Checkman
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Reged: 15/03/08
Posts: 256
Loc: Idaho
Re: Any Webley Fans [Re: Marrakai]
      #99585 - 19/03/08 06:42 AM

A pair. Wow. Now you need to get pearl grips for them and double shoulder holsters. You'd fit right in as a 1920's soldier of fortune. Indiana Jones would have nothing over you.

Yes there is something about the pre-Mk VI Webleys with the birdhead grip and 4" barrel. I understand why the square grip was introduced as well as the longer barrel, but the earlier versions have something about them. I've seen a Mk III in a museum. I actually got to handle a Webley-Fosbery with the 7" barrel once. Didn't shoot it, but it was pretty neat nevertheless.

I would also like a Webley Mk IV or the Enfield No. 2. Those are also fairly scarce where I live. The Mk VI was just a lucky break. On the other hand I have no problems finding older Smith and Wessons or Colt double action revolvers.So I guess I have to be satisfied.

Edited by Checkman (19/03/08 06:47 AM)


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Riley
.224 member


Reged: 08/10/05
Posts: 14
Loc: Missouri, U.S.A.
Re: Any Webley Fans [Re: Checkman]
      #99649 - 19/03/08 02:15 PM

I acquired a Webley VI last year that is still in its original .455 caliber. Mine says it was made in London in 1917. I've purchased some new Hornady cases ("shorts"), a set of Lee dies and have been working up loads to approximate the factory numbers. Mine "sluggs" .453 diameter and shoots a .454 cast bullet the best (so far) with 3.8gr of Bullseye. I'd like to find some of the "longer" cases like the "Dominion" brand (made in Canada, I believe) because its rather hard to get much powder in the Hornady case with the heavier cast bullets available. It is a "blast" to shoot and resonably accurate pistol. Plus, being a Sherlock Holmes fan, I'm sure he or Watson help design this pistol (yeah, right). The one I have looks just like the top one in Marrakai's (picture) post.

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3475
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Any Webley Fans [Re: Riley]
      #99664 - 19/03/08 07:39 PM

Just for interest, there's a short note on one of my Mk.IVs on the 'Newsletters' page of our local Arms Collectors Club website: ACANT Website
Scroll down to the December 2007 issue at the bottom of the page: click on "Enigmatic 'War Finish' Webley"

BTW Riley, we mainly use Fiocchi .455 cases: perhaps not 'pukka', but practical!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5268
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Any Webley Fans [Re: Marrakai]
      #99673 - 19/03/08 09:10 PM

The Webley revolvers are something I have an interest in. Never have owned or shot one, but always have had the interest.

I would like to see a knowledgable discussion of the Webley Mk VI, loading techniques, history, etc. Maybe I could learn enough to actually locate and buy one.

First, what are the pros and cons of a Webley that has been converted to use .45ACP? Is there a problem with groove diameter? Are the chambers any problem?

Also, what is the availablilty of .455 brass to feed a revolver that remains original?

What accuracy can be expected from the Mk VI? How would this compare to say, a S&W of similar caliber?

Is the design prone to failure or breakage? Are there any hidden "pitfalls" to look for in evaluating one?

I have extensive experience with S&W, Colt, and Ruger revolvers, but the Webley remains a mystery to me. Having confessed my ignorance, please know that any help will be appreciated.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Tatume
.400 member


Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: Any Webley Fans [Re: CptCurl]
      #99678 - 19/03/08 10:37 PM

Morning Captian,

The 455 Webley cartridge is of larger diameter than the 45 ACP. When 45 ACP ammo is fired in converted Webley revolvers, the cases bulge. They are then either split or so large as to be unusable.

The conversion was popular when 455 Webley ammunition was difficult to obtain and 45 ACP hardball was common. Hornady makes 455 Webley brass; at Graf & Sons it costs $30 per 100.

Take care, Tom


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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5500
Loc: United States
Re: Any Webley Fans [Re: Tatume]
      #99679 - 19/03/08 10:49 PM

Quote:

Morning Captian,

The 455 Webley cartridge is of larger diameter than the 45 ACP. When 45 ACP ammo is fired in converted Webley revolvers, the cases bulge. They are then either split or so large as to be unusable.

The conversion was popular when 455 Webley ammunition was difficult to obtain and 45 ACP hardball was common. Hornady makes 455 Webley brass; at Graf & Sons it costs $30 per 100.

Take care, Tom




Offhand I don't know the chamber dimensions, but a friend has one with the cylinder faced off to handle 45 ACP cases {most common ACP conversion} and cases come out of the gun looking like they were made for it; no splitting, bulging or other indications of oversize chamber/undersize brass. He uses clips with his and the gun functions well for him.

A question though for you who have alot of experience with the MKVI gun...

It has been years since I shot it, but when I did shoot my friend's MKVI, slowfire single-action, I frequently had the hammer stick on half-cock. Weird, huh? He NEVER had the problem. Weirdest thing to me, since we experimented, handing the gun back and forth, me shooting, then him, with the hammer sticking on half-cock for me and the gun firing reliably for him. I had no trouble with DA shooting.

Marrakai, et al, ever seen this condition with one of these guns before?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Tatume
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Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: Any Webley Fans [Re: 9.3x57]
      #99683 - 19/03/08 11:01 PM

I'm sure your observation is reliable, but my report on split and bulged cases is also of the eye-witness variety. I guess it's just the luck of the draw.

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5500
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Re: Any Webley Fans [Re: Tatume]
      #99687 - 19/03/08 11:22 PM

Tatume, no doubt. I didn't mean to say your observation was incorrect, as mentioned, offhand I don't even know what the spec's are. Just that this gun was kind to cases and handloading no problem.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3475
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Any Webley Fans [Re: 9.3x57]
      #99693 - 20/03/08 12:38 AM

Curl:
There are a couple of very comprehensive books, though out-of-print now and probably expensive: "The Webley Story" by Bill Dowell, and "Webley Revolvers" by Gordon Bruce & Christian Reinhart. The second is a modern revision of the first, but quite different in layout. Skennerton's 'Small Arms Identification Series' on the Mk.VI is a gem, and there have been some marvellous articles in the British gun press over the years.

There may also be a good website, I'll see what I can find.

The only criticism I have of the Mk.VI is a heavy trigger-pull, especially in one-handed double-action shooting.

I've seen the .45 ACP conversions and the half-moon clips, but never fired one. The .455 ammo is easy to reload, I use green-moly deep-hollow-base projectiles swaged by WestCasting, but have to cannelure the bullet to permit crimping or they creep out during firing. Built my own cannelure tool for this.

9Three:
Never heard of the condition you describe in a Webley revolver. I shoot nearly all of mine, especially the Mk.II and Mk.VI .455s and none of them drop to half-cock.

That would be bloody annoying!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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500grains
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Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Any Webley Fans [Re: Marrakai]
      #99703 - 20/03/08 02:40 AM

I love Webley military revolvers, not because I think that they are in any way better than a finely-tuned Smith & Wesson, but because they are just plain fun.

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Checkman
.333 member


Reged: 15/03/08
Posts: 256
Loc: Idaho
Re: Any Webley Fans [Re: 500grains]
      #99724 - 20/03/08 05:58 AM

I haven't had any problems with the 45 acp cases bulging or splitting. Accuracy is not as good with the 45 acp, but beggars can't be choosers I guess. I use the lead round nose instead of the FMJ bullets. Easier on the bore and they seem to "fill" the bore a little bit better. That is just my opinion.

The big issue that I've been told about is that some of the Mk VI conversions have been shot loose by folks using full strength factory 45 acp loads. The frames get stretched and the stirrup becomes lose.Hence the frame isn't very tight on some.Fortunately I lucked out with mine.

I've been told that on the Mk I and Mk II the stirrup screws will get stripped out, but that problem was corrected with the Mk III.

The action on my (Enfield) Mk VI is excellent. It's heavy but very smooth.Took it to work and one of my fellow officers asked if it was for sale. He too is a fan of British firearms.

I got the Mk VI for the sheer reason that I wanted one. I've wanted one for many many years. Since I was a fourteen year old kid. I'm forty now. My Smith & Wessons and Colts are stronger, have nicer trigger actions and nicer finishes. That isn't the point. For me the Webleys are just very cool.

500grains hit the nail on the head.

I feel the same way about my military spec Lithgow SMLE Mk III*(1918).It's a neat rifle. However I also have a very nicely done sporterized BSA Mk III* (1916). Bubba showed some skill and attention to detail with the BSA. It was only $75.00 and I got it. It's a fun gun and fills in for the Lee Speed that I wish I owned.

Some guns are just about the cool/fun factor.

I like this forum. Folks tend to be more judgemental on other firearm forums. You guys are more relaxed. Glad I stumbled across nitroexpress.


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88MauSporter
.375 member


Reged: 06/06/07
Posts: 530
Loc: Alaska / Texas
Re: Any Webley Fans [Re: Checkman]
      #99728 - 20/03/08 07:38 AM

I too own and shoot a couple of Webleys. An 1886 marked MK I and a 1914 MKIII. The early one with the brids head grip and the later with a rounded backstrap grip. Both 4 inch barrels and both had been ground for .45 ACP. The MK 1had a broken latch spring when I first aquired it. I believe from shooting full power .45 acps. A testiment to the strength of the war horse made for BP loads originally.
I only shoot my hand loads in them to duplicate the .455 /.476 load. I use the Remington .45 Colt HB swaged 255 gr bullets and get good accuracy. The brass is mostly .45 auto rim, but also ACP brass with full moon clips. I use the .455 lee dies to have the proper shape and handle the large diameter bullets.
Both revolvers were in otherwise very good condition. The MKIII looks to have been re-built and remarked and proofed at some time.
I like having the Rifle and side arm of the same origin and era. A little odd, but fun.
I have a very nice Enfield MK2 (not altered) with the hammer spur and single / double action. About minty. Fun revolver also to go with the SMLE Mk4s.
I will bring one of the early Webleys on my next boar hunt, along with the Martini .375 Express.

--------------------
"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter


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Anonymous
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Re: Any Webley Fans [Re: Checkman]
      #99852 - 21/03/08 11:01 AM

Take a look at what some rare Webley's brought here:

http://juliaauctions.net/auctions/233/div_catalog_233_sh.asp


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5500
Loc: United States
Re: Any Webley Fans [Re: ]
      #99867 - 21/03/08 01:12 PM

Quote:

Take a look at what some rare Webley's brought here:

http://juliaauctions.net/auctions/233/div_catalog_233_sh.asp




Wow.

Why would anybody give $4,600 for an Inglis {misspelled "Inglais"} High Power...?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Checkman
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Reged: 15/03/08
Posts: 256
Loc: Idaho
Re: Any Webley Fans [Re: 9.3x57]
      #100069 - 23/03/08 02:39 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Take a look at what some rare Webley's brought here:

http://juliaauctions.net/auctions/233/div_catalog_233_sh.asp




Wow.

Why would anybody give $4,600 for an Inglis {misspelled "Inglais"} High Power...?




Because they can? There were some nice pieces sold at that auction, but I'm with you when it comes to the Inglis.


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starwars
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Reged: 03/04/08
Posts: 58
Loc: California
Re: Any Webley Fans [Re: Checkman]
      #101378 - 03/04/08 12:51 PM

Boy these are really getting pricey at the auction houses.

--------------------
Richard


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