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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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Aussiesteve
.275 member


Reged: 30/03/08
Posts: 73
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australi...
.577 NE
      #100842 - 30/03/08 11:48 AM

Hi guys, I am new here, and realativly new to big bore shooting. I have found an uncompleted ruger number 1 in .577 NE for sale. The reamer, barrel and dies are there, just needs to be assembled and a little work done on the action to feed. I havent even seen a .577 NE cartridge, much less fired one so I was wondering what sort of recoil could I expect from it?

I have a CZ 550 safari magnum in .416 Rigby which I handload for shooting 410 grain bullets at 2700 fps and 350 grain pills at 2850fps. I am able to handle the recoil generated by these loads, and so was wondering where the big .577 would be compared to that? I think it would be a fun rifle to have, but only if I could shoot it.

Is there any other suggestions that people may have about this set up?

Cheers
Steve


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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3579
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: .577 NE [Re: Aussiesteve]
      #100860 - 30/03/08 04:53 PM

Welcome, Steve!
Full nitro .577 on a Ruger No.1 would generate absolutely stupid recoil! There was a .500 NE in Darwin for a while, owned by Norm C_, which ended up going with Ian D_ to NZ IIRC. Vinnicomb engraved and Waghorn stocked, nice to look at but an absolute bitch to fire. The .577 could only be worse!

The beauty of the single-shot is no barrel-regulation issues, so the sights can be set for any bullet weight and load you like. I'd recommend playing with the marvellous Woodleigh 650gr bullet, and work up a load with AR2208 or AR2209 till your teeth start to rattle, then back off a few grains!

If the weight can be increased to 10 lbs, 1650 fps with the 650gr Woodleigh is a great hunting combo. A rifle up towards 11 lbs should be manageable at up to 1800 fps MV.



..and if you're recoil-shy, I'd further recommend restocking with a forend and buttstock made of solid lead.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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Aussiesteve
.275 member


Reged: 30/03/08
Posts: 73
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australi...
Re: .577 NE [Re: Marrakai]
      #100866 - 30/03/08 08:14 PM

Marrakai, thanks for the heads up! I havent had anything to do with Ruger number 1's, but does their stock design make them particuly hard kickers, or are they just light? I have typed in some numbers into a recoil calculator, and apparently my 11 pound CZ is kicking with 70 odd ft lbs, and the 650 grain bullet at 2000 fps from a 13 pound gun kicks with 77 ft lbs. I dont find the Rigby to be bothersome when shooting in field possisions, and can get 10 shots off sitting at a bench before I have to leave it for 10 minutes, before comming back to it.

Has anyone had anything to do with instock recoil reducers? My uncle has a couple spare from his shotgun shooting, would one of these be able to help tame the recoil? I will have a talk with a gunsmith tomorrow who does lots of work with big rifles, so he may also be able to offer some help as to ways of making a ruger heavier.

thanks for the help

Steve


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rscott
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Reged: 21/03/08
Posts: 328
Loc: wyo., USA
Re: .577 NE [Re: Aussiesteve]
      #100871 - 30/03/08 10:26 PM

i'm wondering how in the world you're getting 2700 fps out of a 416 rigby 410 gr? maybe thats a topic for a new thread.

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3579
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: .577 NE [Re: rscott]
      #100879 - 30/03/08 11:37 PM

Quote:

how in the world you're getting 2700 fps out of a 416 rigby



Just fill the case up with powder, brush it off level with the palm of the hand, then seat a bullet!

I'm sure my pal Tryg H_ used to load his CZ-550 like that: kicked like a mule!

The recoil issue with the Ruger No.1 is light weight, pure and simple. If you can make the rifle weigh the 'proper' amount, and I'm talking 12 or 13 lbs (..or more!) for the .577 Full Nitro, then it will be comfortable to shoot.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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peter
removed


Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: .577 NE [Re: Marrakai]
      #100881 - 30/03/08 11:40 PM

Quote:

Just fill the case up with powder, brush it off level with the palm of the hand, then seat a bullet!




and get somebody else to fire it for you

peter


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Raff
.300 member


Reged: 12/01/04
Posts: 182
Loc: Texas
Re: .577 NE [Re: Aussiesteve]
      #100922 - 31/03/08 06:53 AM

Hello Steve;
As far as recoil, the No.1 in .577 is a real bruiser
to shoot. I have one. Mine weighs 10lb. 8 oz. it has two
mercury reducers in the butt and about the largest barrel
you can spin on without serious rework to the front metal.
It is, as Marrakai said, just not enough weight for full
power loads with a 750 gr. bullet. I started off shooting
750 gr at 2100FPS and am now wimping out to where I use
the 650 Woodleigh at 2000. Next time I will probably drop
that to 1800 or so. A 750 gr. at NE speeds will really get
your attention. I find that the best way to deal with the
recoil is to let the people who ask "can I try it?" shoot
it and I just watch.
Good luck with this project.
Raff

--------------------
.


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Aussiesteve
.275 member


Reged: 30/03/08
Posts: 73
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australi...
Re: .577 NE [Re: Raff]
      #100928 - 31/03/08 08:00 AM

Thqanks guys for the replies. Firstly, that .416 rigby load is not showing any signs that I have gone too far. My cases extract easy, bolt lift is easy, primers are OK so I think its a pretty safe load. It does get my attentin when fired but its not bad, I get more bruised from my .270 Rem 700 mountain rifle, and .340 wby mag when shooting off a bench.

So I guess the only issue with this rifle is that the ruger number 1's are just too light for serious big bore cartridges? Does anybody know if they can be made heavier? Lead in the stock, to ballance out a long heavy barrel maybe?

Would be a nice little project for me, but it has to be shootable, dont want to have it sitting around doing nothing.

thanks again
Steve


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dnovo
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Reged: 21/02/05
Posts: 490
Loc: Chicago & SE Wisconsin
Re: .577 NE [Re: Aussiesteve]
      #100929 - 31/03/08 08:20 AM

Gary Reeder here in the US ( www.reedercustomguns.com ) builds a 'Beast' on a heavily reworked Ruger No.1 in several large calibers, including a 470NE, which I own, a 500NE etc. It uses a slightly redesigned stock, and a VERY LARGE and (thankfully) efficient muzzlebrake. The recoil is not that bad, not that good, but the rifle can be shot and kept under control if you lean into it, hold on properly, and wear a good set of ear protectors. Very short, very light, reasonably accurate (yes, if you concentrate) and useful for one thing that I use it for all the time.

I love the idiots who show up at the range and either 1) pretend that there is a prize from burning up ammo, and the barrel, on their AR 15 and then wave it around trying to clear a jam despite the Range Officer saying, 'keep that muzzle pointed down range' 2) the idiot who shows up with a Desert Eagle and tells his girlfriend, 'this is a real man's gun, nobody who isn't a real man can handle it' and then puts his rounds into your target while the gun barely stays in his hand.

I pull out the Beast in 470 NE and pop off a round or two. The noise and muzzle blast from the brake is usually enough to rid me of these vermin. If that doesn't work, the CZ550 Safari Classic in 505 with a brake does the trick.

Never underestimate the power of a big cartridge and an effective muzzle brake to get rid of pesky neighbors at the range. But, if you have a friend near you, always warn/ask first.

Oh, I forgot to mention that Gary has gone a bit 'up scale' recently with this product This is from his site:


"For over 5 years now I have wanted to build a LARGE caliber hunting rifle. The 577 Nitro or the 600 Nitro have enticed me for years. We tried to put out a single shot 600 Nitro but had problems finding manufacturers to do the small parts and stocks. So we dropped the idea, until recently.
After doing almost a years worth of ballistic testing on 2 new cartridges we now have our MEGA BEAST in production. This new beauty comes chambered in either of the 2 new calibers, the 586 GNR or the 610 GNR. Both are based on the 577 Snider case which is readily available from Jamison Brass or from Huntington Die Specialties. We carry the dies and have the loading data.
The new MEGA BEAST is built on your Ruger #1 base gun and the base gun can be in any caliber as all that changes. We add a new heavy duty 20 inch barrel and our own patented muzzle brake, add front and rear sights and engrave the sideplate with scenes of dangerous game. The deluxe version has solid sterling silver dangerous game positioned to the sideplates along with engraving while the field grade has engraved animals. We add gold or silver bands to the barrel and the gun is then high polished and has our deluxe Black Chromex finish done to it. We finish the stock in an ebony finish and add a decelerator butt pad to it for more comfortable shooting.
The 586 GNR and 610 GNR are true short range dangerous game cartridges. Each one was designed to shoot a 550 grain hard cast flat nose bullet at 1900 fps or better. This gives our MEGA BEAST a TKO of 92 or better. A factory 460 Weatherby has 84 TKO, so we beat the 460 but do so with less than half the recoil.
Whether you choose the 586 GNR or the 610 GNR MEGA BEAST, you will have all it takes to put down the largest most dangerous game on this planet."


or, if you want to stay simple, you can go for the 'ordinary' Beast, which can be had as follows:

"The Beast comes in the caliber of your choice. We recommend 375 H&H or up, but the choice is yours. Some of the calibers available are 375 H&H, 375 Rem. Ultra Mag, 378 Weatherby, 375 H&H Ackley Improved, 405 Winchester, 416 Remington Mag, 416 GNR, 416 Rigby, 450 GNR, 450 KNR, 458 Win. Magnum, 458 Lott, 460 Weatherby, 475 GNR, 476 GNR, 470 Nitro, 470 Capstick, 500 Nitro, 50 Alaskan, 505 Gibbs, 510 Wells, 510 Express, or 500 Jeffery."

"Ain't no such thing as too much gun." (Yeah, but don't shoot one of these from a rest, or bye bye shoulder blade.)



Dave

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels

Edited by dnovo (31/03/08 08:26 AM)


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hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: .577 NE [Re: Marrakai]
      #100931 - 31/03/08 08:52 AM

If you are going to do a Ruger #1 to 577, you will need to consider a very heavy contour barrel and mercury reducers in the tail--Weight should be as Marrakai suggests!!

Personally I would prefer Marrakai's 577 lite in a modern Double rifle, Made right and shooting the right fullbore ammo for the 2.75 inch cartridge it would be a dandy and ready for nearly anything on Terra firma short of a record tusker or a tyrannosaurus and it would probably handle those critters!!!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (31/03/08 08:57 AM)


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bigdog
.375 member


Reged: 05/02/06
Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois
Re: .577 NE [Re: hoppdoc]
      #100948 - 31/03/08 10:14 AM

Aussie, I have a ruger # 1 in 500 nitro and shoot 570 grain bullets at 2365 ft/sec. My gun weighs 10.0 lbs and delivers 7076 ft.lbs of energy. It kicks a lot, but is quite manageable. I have shot it quite a bit and you get used to the recoil. Others will disagree with me, but I think it would be a good project. But... I really like shooting big stuff. Have fun with it.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad


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Aussiesteve
.275 member


Reged: 30/03/08
Posts: 73
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australi...
Re: .577 NE [Re: bigdog]
      #100971 - 31/03/08 02:13 PM

Hi everyone, thanks for posting some pretty usefull info. I spoke to the gunsmith and he said it was possible to add two mercury recoil reducers, and not tapper the barrel much, to add some weight, and take away some recoil. I am still undecided, might have to do a ring around and see what the components cost and compare to what the fella wants.

The gunsmith said that it would cost close to a 1000 bucks to get everything done, including iron sights. Will just have to wait and see

Steve


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bigdog
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Reged: 05/02/06
Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois
Re: .577 NE [Re: Aussiesteve]
      #100981 - 31/03/08 05:30 PM

I would add a different recoil pad, as the ones on factory Rugers are not the greatest.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad


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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: .577 NE [Re: Raff]
      #101046 - 01/04/08 04:57 AM

Raff

Would brand of rifle do you have? How is your regulation changing as you play with lighter bullets and loads?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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Raff
.300 member


Reged: 12/01/04
Posts: 182
Loc: Texas
Re: .577 NE [Re: mickey]
      #101053 - 01/04/08 06:18 AM

Mick;
This one is not a DR. It's a Ruger No. 1 rebarreled.
My DR went down the road when I sold most of my rifles to
start a new company. Regulation changed with I played with
750 to 650 to 560 gr. bullets but I was always able to
regulate any size bullet, it just took a bit of work.
Reloader 15 is my friend. If you're looking for a 650
load in your rifle, I settled on 120gr of RL15, dacron,
Fed. 215 and the Woodleigh 650. 2050 fps in both the Ruger
and the Nitro double.
Hope this helps
Raff

--------------------
.


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Aussiesteve
.275 member


Reged: 30/03/08
Posts: 73
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australi...
Re: .577 NE [Re: Raff]
      #101077 - 01/04/08 12:59 PM

Hi Raff, thanks for the loading data, I am more interested in the 650 grain woodleigh rather than the 750 so this will come in handy if I do get the rifle

Cheers
Steve


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Aussiesteve
.275 member


Reged: 30/03/08
Posts: 73
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australi...
Re: .577 NE [Re: Aussiesteve]
      #101661 - 05/04/08 04:32 PM

Hi guys I have talked the fella down a bit in price, so I have basicaly brought it (as long as I get the permit). Is there are particular brand/type of open sights that would be good on this rifle? What about regulation for a lack of a better word? What if I have the 650's hitting slightly high at 100, then if I ever want to use 750's they should be close to the point of aim. Is this realistic? I dont ever envision me taking a trip to the dark continent, and even if I did go I'd pack the .416 rather than the single shot .577, but I do want to use it in big game rifle club shoots, and some hunting.

Does anybody have a favourite recoil pad for big kickers? I am also planing on adding at least two mercury recoil reducers to add some weight to the rifle. What about slig swivels? I often see them on the barrel, is there a special reason for this? Would my rifle be better off with this set up?

I understand these questions may sound silly, but this is my first big bore rifle, and I wanna make it good, rather than saying I wish now I had done this different. Also any idears here can be thought over by me and my 'smith, as there maybe things that we overlook, or sombody may have had experience with a ruger number 1 in a big bore cartridge and can offer some advice to me.

Cheers

Steve


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dnovo
.333 member


Reged: 21/02/05
Posts: 490
Loc: Chicago & SE Wisconsin
Re: .577 NE [Re: Aussiesteve]
      #101671 - 05/04/08 07:51 PM

Steve, let me know how you do on your new acquistion. I just 'bit the bullet' and after a year of lust, and hesitation on price and potential recoil issues, and then coming together on the price and giving in to the lust factor based on superb condition and engraving, I bought an incredibly-beautiful Hagn-actioned Custom take down single shot in a 470 NE. At 8 pounds 12 oz with the three recoil reducers in the butt removed it will rattle your teeth and a handle to shoot. I plan on replacing the mecury recoil reducers (the original owner didn't like the balance with them, 3 as originally installed by the builder) and that should help quite a bit. I am going to load down a WHOLE lot and any thoughts you would have on helping reduce that even more -- I hate to replace the leather pad at the rear with something more practical but less attractive -- I'd love to hear about that. Dave (P.S. Whomever said experience is the best teacher forgot that lust can overide experience any day. I picked up a very, very reasonably price Dakota Model 10 in a 405 Winchester. I couldn't figure out why the owner parted with it as it appeared to have less than a box of ammo through it, the list price with the top of the line wood, fancy checkering, etc was sky high, and he practically gave it to me. One trip to the range with that featherweight in that chambering showed why. Five rounds later, and I sold it to a fellow who wanted to track down Moose in 'rough and far' conditions. Bless him, I wanted that thing off my shoulder as soon as possible. I said never again. So much for my common sense.)

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels

Edited by dnovo (05/04/08 07:51 PM)


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chuck375
.333 member


Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
Re: .577 NE [Re: dnovo]
      #101747 - 06/04/08 06:31 AM

Personally, I think you would be nuts for putting a 577 in a Ruger 1. First of all, a single shot as a DGR is not a good idea unless you're one of those people who can reload in under a second without thinking about it. Second, the Ruger 1's though gorgeous have a reputation for kicking harder, don't know why that is. Third 577 NE are you nuts??? Lol. No disrespect intended. A 470 NE or a 404 Jeffery would be way milder and more practical and will still drop anything that moves.

Recommend you get a double rifle or a good CRF bolt in one of the above calibers ... I started out with a 375 H&H and am going to rebarrel up to a larger caliber (thinking 470 Capstick right now), but not until I go to the big bore shoot in Helena Montana and try some of these big boys first hand.

Best of luck with whatever you choose ...



Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

Edited by chuck375 (06/04/08 06:32 AM)


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Aussiesteve
.275 member


Reged: 30/03/08
Posts: 73
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australi...
Re: .577 NE [Re: chuck375]
      #101750 - 06/04/08 08:10 AM

Chuck I dont want to hunt DG with it, more wish to shoot in big game rifle club matches, but also hunt with it on our sambar deer. I already own a CZ .416 Rigby and if I ever hunted Africa thats the rifle I'd take with me. I am looking to down load it at the start with 650 grain bullets, and maybe even some lighter cast ones if I can get a mould. This is more about having a .577 x 3" for the hell of it, and because I'm young, than wanting a rifle to slay the worlds biggest critters.

Dave, mate the rifle will be a while yet, as its only an action and stck with a blank barrel. I will have to have it all put together from scratch and hence why I am asking questions now, about taming the recoil.

Steve


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Raff
.300 member


Reged: 12/01/04
Posts: 182
Loc: Texas
Re: .577 NE [Re: Aussiesteve]
      #101770 - 06/04/08 12:07 PM

Steve;
When you build this rifle, put the front sling
mount far out on the barrel and get it away from your
hand. Mine is mounted just in front of the forend wood
and if you are not carefull, it will slide across your
hand under recoil and cut you up.
Limbsaver recoil pad works nice. Decelerator also is
fine. Had both on mine and can't really tell the
difference.
Your could always put a standing rear with one folding
sight, file the standing for your 650 load and use the
folder for the 750. Just a thought. I have only a standing
sight on mine, it works fine for either load. This is not
a long range target rifle. Both loads shoot pretty clost
together at 50 yards or so.
Good luck with your new project. Sounds like fun
Raff

--------------------
.


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Aussiesteve
.275 member


Reged: 30/03/08
Posts: 73
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australi...
Re: .577 NE [Re: Raff]
      #101803 - 06/04/08 08:00 PM

Hi Raff, I will keep in mind the front swivel and get it well forward on my barrel. I have just looked at the big game rifle website, and these bigger rifles are only shot at 50 and 25 meters, not the 100 and 50 used in the smaller calibers. Thanks also for the info on limbsaver recoil pads, I hadnt considerd them

Steve


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Otto
.300 member


Reged: 15/09/05
Posts: 111
Loc: Arizona, USA
Re: .577 NE [Re: Aussiesteve]
      #101817 - 06/04/08 10:51 PM

I've built two #1 Rugers in 505 Gibbs and the advice provided thus far should be strongly heeded. As Raff noted, the front hanger on the #1 limits the barrel diameter. You need barrel weight to balance any recoil reducers in the stock. The best way to achieve this in a .577, since the hole is so big, is to use a long barrel. I'd be looking for a 28" finished length and the largest diameter that will clear the hanger, with minimum to no taper to the muzzle. Because of the short action length, overall length with a 28" barrel will not be ungainly. My weight goal for a 577 would be 13 pounds. Don't forget to modify the butt stock to take the recoil. All the nice radii on the rear of both tangs must be relieved and, on my jobs, I relieve and use steel bed to reinforce the flat recoil surfaces at the front of the stock. A muzzle brake is a personal choice, but I put them on the 505s. The muzzle brake can be machined to act as a recoil stop for a banded front sight, which works to perfection. Good luck.
Otto


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chuck375
.333 member


Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
Re: .577 NE [Re: Otto]
      #101836 - 07/04/08 01:47 AM

Steve best of luck with it! 13 lbs sounds about right, being a wuss, my 470 Capstick will weigh about 12 when I decide to build it ...


Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"


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Aussiesteve
.275 member


Reged: 30/03/08
Posts: 73
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australi...
Re: .577 NE [Re: chuck375]
      #101864 - 07/04/08 07:53 AM

Hi guys thanks for the advise, as stated this is my first really big bore so I am looking to do it right from the start. I will also look to have a long barrel at 28 inches or more if I can like Otto said, the gunsmith who will do this for me is pretty good with big game rifles as thats what he does most.

Thanks for the input

Steve


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