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hoppdoc
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Takedown/Caliber Switch Rifles--Brilliant or Shizophrenic??
      #99214 - 14/03/08 02:15 PM

Was cruisin various websites and noted several switch rifles--ie the barrels could be switched out for a smaller or larger cartridge---

Is this brilliant if one is going to hunt certain game or just nuts??

Would you want to take such a set up hunting??

Would there be any reason to carry such a rifle 0n a DG Safari?? How would you know which barrel to have ready??
Which calibers would you want?? What type action would you prefer?? You have options from everything from Precision Shooting.Dakota,Blaser and others--

What calibers would you want on a PG/DG hunt??
338 Lapua/416 Rigby???

Any thoughts about best combo out there??

Me, I'll keep it simple-- the only combo I am going to want to try is the shotgun barrels on the Double after the DG game is down and the hunting is done!!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (14/03/08 02:16 PM)

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DGR375
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Re: Takedown/Caliber Switch Rifles--Brilliant or Shizophrenic?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #99217 - 14/03/08 04:11 PM

From what I can gather, most switch barrel systems are push feed designs. This, to my mind, makes them unacceptable as a dangerous game rifle. For non-DG, fine, so long as your goal for the day's hunting is clear in your mind. That way you can be set up with the correct calibre e.g. 375 for Eland, or on another day, 7mm for Springbok.
Terry

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ozhunter
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Re: Takedown/Caliber Switch Rifles--Brilliant or Shizophreni [Re: DGR375]
      #99220 - 14/03/08 07:35 PM

Love my Blaser.
A few friends and I have been using Blasers for close to ten years now with the only problem being that on occasion during a hunt in hot dry conditions I sometimes have to re tighten the main stock screw.

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xausa
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Re: Takedown/Caliber Switch Rifles--Brilliant or Shizophrenic?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #99235 - 15/03/08 02:02 AM

I have a "switch barrel" set, consisting of a Krieghoff Teck (box lock) O/U double rifle in .458 Winchester Magnum, with interchangeable barrels in .375 H&H Magnum and 20 gauge 3" Magnum.

I have on order another Krieghoff Teck in .500 Nitro Express, with interchangeable barrels in 8X75RS and 12 gauge 2 3/4". Also in the works are a Krieghoff Ulm (sidelock) O/U in 9.3X74R with barrels in 16 gauge 2 3/4" and another Teck in .450 C&W (.375 H&H Flanged opened to .458") and 12 gauge 2 3/4".

Obviously, I'm enamoured of the concept.

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Kalunga
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Re: Takedown/Caliber Switch Rifles--Brilliant or Shizophreni [Re: xausa]
      #99251 - 15/03/08 06:09 AM

In the Double Gun Journal,Volume Seven, Issue 3 from autumn 1996 I was very impressed by "Bengt Berg`s Fantastic Set of Simson Guns" (page 119). There were two guns and no less than nine pairs of barrels in different calibers and combinations, and all barrels fitted both the actions ! Bengt Berg was a well-known Swedish zoologist, ornithologist, photographer, hunter and author of about fourty titles. He made several expeditions where he used these exceptional guns to collect everything from tiny birds up to the really big boys. He ordered the guns in 1930.
The double rifle barrels were: .470 N.E., .360 No.2 and 6,5x57R/.22 Hornet, the combination barrels were .222R/12 bore shotgun (with scope), .470 N.E./12 bore Paradox Explora, 8x60RS/12 bore Paradox besides a set of 12 bore shotgun and another one in 12 bore Paradox ! Interesting to me is the fact that the .470 N.E./12 bore Paradox barrels were stainless steel ( Krupp Nirosta ), which makes me think of the capabilities of today`s gunsmiths. Most will tell You that it is impossible to make a stainless steel double or combination gun.
The actions were perfectly made, beautiful engravings with gold inlays, steel grip caps for spare sights and tangs with fold-up peep-sights.
I think a set like this would be great for an extended hunt, lets say three to six months or a comparable dream hunt!
Personally, would be perfectly happy with a double in .470 or .500 N.E. with a set of 12 gauge shotgun barrels and perhaps another in 9,3x74R/12 gauge and perhaps another in 8x75RS........sorry, I am just dreaming !

Kalunga

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hoppdoc
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Re: Takedown/Caliber Switch Rifles--Brilliant or Shizophreni [Re: Kalunga]
      #99254 - 15/03/08 08:28 AM

If and I say "if" I were going to get serious about such things I would want a quality mauser bolts,and a run a caliber spread like 300 H&H, 338 H&H(?ever created), 375H&H, 416 Rem, and 458Lott.

You could take the 338/416 combo on PG/DG hunts excluding Ele or a 375H&H/458 Lott combo on a multiple DG hunt from Lion to Hippo to Crocs to Buff to Ele ( I consider Croc and Hippo semi dangerous game).

You could carry a 300/375 combo for North American hunting!!

What combo's would work here??

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (15/03/08 11:16 AM)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Takedown/Caliber Switch Rifles--Brilliant or Shizophreni [Re: hoppdoc]
      #99293 - 16/03/08 12:10 AM

I see two main benefits of a takedown and/or switch barrel rifles.

1. Ease of travel. How easy is it to break a double rifle and halve it in size for travel on planes, through airports, when staying at hotels, touring etc.

Same for a takedown style rifle.

Less people know what you are carrying and it can even be fitted into a standard hard suitcase, or shotgun sized hard casein a duffel bag.

2. The One Gun Man is deadly. But it is so more versatile to have several calibres for different purposes. But even with some weight and balance changes, shooting the one setup with the same style scope etc creates great familiarity.

3. Third benefit for Europeans which limit the number of rifles but not the number of calibres/barrels is obvious.

As for the argument, which calibre will you choose to hunt with on the day, you may always have the wrong one? And it will be too hard to switch your barrel from hunt to hunt? Well yes of course it is too hard to switch barrels continually. Hunt with the one which best covers the lot.

My ambition is to have a switch barrel/takedown setup in 6.5x68, 8x68S and 9.3x64. If it was a Blaser the .222 could be added as well, and hell it would become as familiar as the back of my hand.

A classic combination would be .300 H&H Mag, and .375 H&H Mag.

If hunting Africa and DG is on the menu, one would just carry the .375 or 9.3 for everything. If not hunting PG the .300 or 8mm would do quite well as well if preferred.

My only existing multiple combo unit is a 9.3x74R double Valmet/Tikka, with 12 g U/O barrels but soon will have 12g/.223 and 12g/7x65R combos and .30-06 U/O DR barrel sets as well.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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JPK
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Re: Takedown/Caliber Switch Rifles--Brilliant or Shizophreni [Re: NitroX]
      #99298 - 16/03/08 01:21 AM

The Dakota Traveler is a switch barrel with controled round feeding, fyi.

I though long and hard about a multi barrel setup but decided against it. I figured that too often you'd have the wrong set up. So I think two seperate rifles are required, and this has worked out for me. If we are not too focused on one game quota, like an elephant, than a tracker will often carry my 375H&H bolt rifle while I carry my double rifle. This seems to work well. Plus having two DG capable rifles on a DG safari only makes good sense to me, for the redundancy in case the prefered heavy rifle goes tit up. (I'm a lefty so it is more critical to me!)

To keep bolt rifles similar, I have a pair of Dakota rifles made to be all but identical. Stock dimensions, trigger weight, mag capacity are identical but weights and sights/scopes are not. Cartidges are 375H&H and 30-06. This combo will cover all game on the planet and one of the two is close to or ideal for a majority of game animals.

But the idea of a multi cartridge rifle is an attractive one none the less. If I were going to do it, it might be either 300wm/338wm/458wm or probably the 300H&H/375H&H/458 Lott. I don't think the 416R (or Taylor for the short mags) adds anything to the mix not already there and I don't think a 338 of sorts would be much missed, if so, isn't the 8mm Remington Mag on the 375H&H case?

Another alternative that would be great for anything but DG would be some combination of 338-06/30-06/280R/270W/25-06R. I think 338-06/30-06/25-06.

JPK

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hoppdoc
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Re: Takedown/Caliber Switch Rifles--Brilliant or Shizophreni [Re: JPK]
      #99331 - 16/03/08 07:53 AM

Agreed that if one wanted flexiblity the 8MM Mag could stand in for the 338WM without problems.The only concern would be bullet style/weight options--

A flexible setup would seem to be 300H&H, 8mm Mag, 375H&H for stateside efforts up to bear--

and having the additional option of 416 Rem and 458 Lott barrels would handle african DG situations as well.

Interesting 5 barrel combo to hunt most big game with!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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hoppdoc
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Re: Takedown/Caliber Switch Rifles--Brilliant or Shizophreni [Re: hoppdoc]
      #99339 - 16/03/08 10:20 AM

Yowsers!!
Getting forgetful in my early dotage----

Given a choice I would swap the 340 Weatherby mag for the 8mm Mag round in the swap barrel scenario--the bullet options are far better making the round more flexible.

Now if I could just win the lottery so that I could go on Safri and USE all that wonderful hardware!!

For Teasers, the Dakota page of options-

http://www.dakotaarms.com/currentinventory/firearmDescriptions/model76traveler/safariTrav/

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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JPK
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Re: Takedown/Caliber Switch Rifles--Brilliant or Shizophreni [Re: hoppdoc]
      #99351 - 16/03/08 02:20 PM

For the short magnum lineup there is also a 375 Taylor, that runs the 375 bullets out of a short mag case, like the 416 Taylor does. So that line up is more complete than I recalled last night.

Here is link to load and performance data for the 375 Taylor, aka 375 Chatsfield-Taylor and 338/375.
http://www.geocities.com/bw_99835/375Taylor.htm

JPK

Edited by JPK (16/03/08 02:29 PM)

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ozhunter
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Re: Takedown/Caliber Switch Rifles--Brilliant or Shizophreni [Re: JPK]
      #99352 - 16/03/08 06:56 PM

A friend of mine has a new HARRIE 98 take down rifle in 300H&H and 375H&H.
A top class rifle.

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Bramble
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Re: Takedown/Caliber Switch Rifles--Brilliant or Shizophreni [Re: ozhunter]
      #99382 - 17/03/08 12:30 AM

I took my takedown 98 to Africa a couple of months ago and from a packing and transport perspective then I highly recommend it.

From the switch barrel/caliber point of view however I don't think it is worthwhile.
A switch barrel is going to be limited by the ability to re-zero the scope for the caliber change or it must have a specialised barrel mounted scope. If the barrels only have open sight sets ( to avoid this ) then any advantage will be mittigated by the size of the coverage of the foresight at any given range. I think that it would be better given the expense to spend the money on ammo and learn to shoot the 416/404 well at extended ranges.

If it is a bolt action and DG is on the menue I would fit claw mounts and a good set of express sights on a 416 or 404 and shoot plains game with the scope and take it off if one were stalking DG (up to but not including Ele).
A 404/416 class is more than accurate enough for PG out to 200 yards which IMO is far enough as I am not a fan of "sniping" at animals.

If it is a double then I would like a set of barrels in the 9.3/375 class with a scope and a set in the 450/470/500 class with express sights for Ele or buff if specifically stalking them only. If Ele were not on the menu then I would be happy taking anything else with the 9.3/375.

IMHO if one is shooting specific species that will require due to terrain (ie Springbok in the desert) 200 yds + shots then a seperate flat shooting rifle designed with this in mind should be used. 7mm mag, 300WM, 8mm mag which could be zeroed at 200 givin point blank trajectories out to long range.

Now if the makers of scopes are reading this!! I would like a scope with a fine cross hair and then a red dot or second illumintated reticle that can be turned on and zeroed indipendently of the main cross hairs. That would make a switch barrel gun a real versitile possibility.

Regards

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hoppdoc
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Re: Takedown/Caliber Switch Rifles--Brilliant or Shizophreni [Re: Bramble]
      #99391 - 17/03/08 01:51 AM

On a Double with something like a 9.3x74R/500 NE combo it would seem to be tuff to get the handling of different barrels related to rifle weight to work out.I would guess a 9.3 barreled rifle alternate Double would handle like swinging angle iron!!!

Dunno how the balance and handling of a heavy Double with alternate Shotty barrels would do either but I would like to handle one to see!!

The switch barrel rifle concept would seem to work better in this regard. A 300H&H/375H&H would intuitively seem delightful to handle for a PG/limited DG hunt(no ELE)

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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Bramble
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Re: Takedown/Caliber Switch Rifles--Brilliant or Shizophreni [Re: hoppdoc]
      #99394 - 17/03/08 03:12 AM

Hoppdoc.

I belive as the actual ammount of metal i.e. OD to Bore of the barrels is pretty much the same regardless of caliber an adjustment of the barrel lengths should take care of the balance, Say 28" in 9.3 and 24" in .500 . I would agree however that the rifle would be too heavy for caliber in the 9.3 chambering.
However some comprimises would have to be made for most switch barrel arrangments in any event even on a BA say 7mm mag and 458.

My thinking was that with a medium caliber double on PG the shots would be of a more deliberate nature if one were planning to shoot at over 100yds off sticks, so the extra weight would not be a handicap. If it were less than 100 I would be happy to shoot it with the .500 anyway.

I think that this is the problem with switch barrels in a nutshell. They would not be my preference.

I would prefer to carry a 400 class rifle with a claw mount scope and learn to shoot it at longer ranges with a scope, knowing that it is OK up to Ele.

IMHO most will never hunt Elephant and it calls for a special class of rifle not a one gun battery. If whilst hunting Ele some magnificent specimin of PG presents itself then take a lighter rifle off the truck or from the bearer.

Regards

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Schauckis
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Re: Takedown/Caliber Switch Rifles--Brilliant or Shizophreni [Re: Bramble]
      #99400 - 17/03/08 04:45 AM

Good question.

I agree pretty much with NitroX here.
And as was pointed out, if you take two guns with you on a safari you'll have the same problem as with interchangeable barrels: you'll likely be carrying the wrong gun...

In this regard a better bet might be a decent "all-round": .375H&H, 9,3x62/64 or like.
If then specialized hunt is in the program, you can take the more specialized gun accordingly, be it long range, DG, or other.

Also if taking two guns or cals I'd keep in mind Boddington's advice and make sure the cals overlap a bit so that when carrying a heavier you can shoot even light game and vice versa.
I mean, you can shoot most anything with, say, a .458 Mag but it's certainly not advisable on impala, even less so if the range is long. Then again, armed with a 6,5mm you don't wish to encounter lion or buff.

Two guns has the added benefit that you can then borrow the gun to your hunting pal or if one breaks then you have a spare - keeping in mind the overlap of the cals. But if the only stock of a multi-calibre breaks down then you have no guns at all.

Both solutions have their merits and I think it's more down to personal preference after all.
Other considerations are cost, the mentioned limitation on number of guns you can own etc.

I myself would love a good take-down bolt action but I doubt if I'll ever own one simply on cost grounds. Also I am in practice i.e. in the real life more of the one-caliber school although few people love to ponder over calibers more than I do!

--------------------
A.k.a. Bwana One-Shot

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Bramble
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Re: Takedown/Caliber Switch Rifles--Brilliant or Shizophreni [Re: Schauckis]
      #99421 - 17/03/08 07:41 AM

Quote:


I myself would love a good take-down bolt action but I doubt if I'll ever own one simply on cost grounds.



You might be suprised. My 9.3x 62 takedown(see my thread here on its build) is going on sale at the Phoenix meeting at Bisley in May. It will be on Joe Beathams stand "The Gunshop" that is the big one on the RHS of the main hall. If you like it and you tell Joe that you are a member of this forum, Joe can ring me and I can make it avalible to you at a price less than that advertised.

Regards

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JPK
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Re: Takedown/Caliber Switch Rifles--Brilliant or Shizophreni [Re: Bramble]
      #99458 - 17/03/08 01:27 PM

Regarding two rifles, if you are carying the heavy rifle and you spot something worth breaking the tracking on what made you carry the heavy in the first place, you have two choice; if it is close, shoot it; if it further away swap for your light rifle which your tracker is carying. This works remarkably well.

It is also why the light rifle is best a bolt rifle. It can be safely carried by the tracker with an empty chamber but full magazine. If the game is far enough away to warrant the switch, it is often far away enough to allow for the switch, and then chambering a round.

Bramble,

Why not two scopes in seperate rings, each zeroed for one of the barrels? Many different mounts return to zero well enough for general hunting, if not leopard hunting. Talley for example. Of course claws would be the best.

JPK

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ozhunter
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Re: Takedown/Caliber Switch Rifles--Brilliant or Shizophreni [Re: JPK]
      #99460 - 17/03/08 04:44 PM

I agree in what JPK has said about letting a tracker carry an unloaded 9.3 or 375 scoped rifle and you carry the fast handling heavy rifle.
This system works well.

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