pinotguy
.275 member
Reged: 03/02/07
Posts: 57
Loc: CO
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I'd enjoy hearing people's thoughts on the following list of chamberings and their potential on Dangerous Game in Africa (up to and including Cape Buffalo):
9.3x66 Sako (aka 370 Sako Mag.)
9.3x70 Expert Magnum
9.5x66 Vom Hofe Super Express
411 Hawk
10.75x68 Mauser
I realize quite a few folks will categorize all of these as marginal for DG applications. I can't help but think, though, that with modern powders and bullets, one could develop legitimate loads in each of these for African DG. Another appealing thing is the versatility factor, especially with the first three. Could definitely load these "down" and use on plainsgame which would be a plus if you're hunting a combination of species.
I also realize that shot placement plays the most significant role so I see no need to re-hash this.
Thanks in advance.
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mickey
.416 member
Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
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When discussing Dangerous Game you need to separate them out. They are all not equal.
For the cartridges you list I would say that they are all good for Lion and Leopard, adequate for Buffalo and inadequate for Elephant, Hippo or Rhino. Good bullets and powder not withstanding.
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Lovu Zdar
Mick
A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.
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Schauckis
.300 member
Reged: 17/07/07
Posts: 151
Loc: Finland
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Quite an interesting question.
I'd say that whatever has been said about the 9,3x62 and 9,3x64 can be applied to the 9,3x66 as well. It's such a close call. A tad more powerful than 9,3x62 (and it's not wanting in power), a tad less powerful than the 9,3x64.
In this regard, the "best" option is probably the Brenneke cartridge but as such no reason not to use the new Sako.
The Expert magnum is unknown to me.
The Vom Hofe has some following to my understanding, but I don't know the cartridge.
If decent bullets are available then it'll probably be a nice cartridge.
.411 Hawk
Ahhh.... This is the one I've been thinking about.
According to Z-Hat who invented the calibre they have achieved some marvelous power levels. But I doubt them strongly. And for Africa it appears to me that the pressures are very high in order to achieve any meaningful velocities.
If I compare the .35 Whelen and 9,3x62 data to the claimed .411 Hawk data I doubt the figures. Any factory loads to the 9,3x62 are pretty hot as such and to better them is a challenge, indeed.
Same applies to the .35 Whelen: the handloaders have already made it about as hot as it goes and to claim the same or almost the same velocity from a .411 does not seem plausible.
Furthermore, the .411 would require very heavy bullets to achieve .300 SD: about 360-370grs. Now, the 9,3x62 is loaded with 286grs bullet which pretty much gives you the indication of max. velocity for that weight. 320grs is available for the 9,3 so that might actually be better than anything for the .411. And heavy bullets would have to be seated pretty deep reducing the powder capacity (or increasing the pressure).
Are good bullets available for the .411? Woodleigh makes heavy ones, as does Hawk bullets. By and large, though, a limited selection.
Why I'm keen on this is that it's fit a Winchester mod. 1895 lever action's action as the .30-06 is the longest that fits it.
Lastly the Mauser.
I'm afraid that neither Boddington nor Taylor spoke very highly of it.
The longer 73mm is more highly regarded. Apparently, the problem with the 68mm has been too light bullets - so why not take heavier ones, instead? The velocity might be a problem as even the longer (i.e. .404 Jeffery) one does not give very high velocities.
One general comment on all of these is that they have quite moderate velocities, so none of them certainly is a long range cartridge really. And if we consider that the "optimum" is in the region of 2100-2400fps (640-730m/s) then certainly all the cartridges should be in that bracket. And remember to use premium bullets!
The new Sako is probably the best in that regard. Then again, DG is hunted in close quarters so I don't see this as an issue.
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A.k.a. Bwana One-Shot
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Nakihunter
.375 member
Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 588
Loc: New Zealand
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I am biased towards the 10.75X68 because my dad used one in the 50's in India. Plain nostalgia & grief that he sold it when I was 12 years old....
The problem with this caliber in those days was poor projectiles & the 347 gr ammo loaded for open sights. In a scoped rifle, you should get great results with heavier Woodlieghs that are meant for the 404 Jeffry. Both are 423 cal. Theoretically speaking this should be adequate for normal hunting of all DG - it would be as good as a 416 within 100 meters - making up for lower velocity with larger caliber & similar bullet weight.
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Always shoot through the target & not just at it.
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JPK
.375 member
Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
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I think Mickey got it right on all fronts.
JPK
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500grains
.416 member
Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
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Quote:
9.3x66 Sako (aka 370 Sako Mag.)
9.3x70 Expert Magnum
9.5x66 Vom Hofe Super Express
411 Hawk
10.75x68 Mauser
Good stuff for lion and leopard. Back when the heaviest cartridge you list, the 10.75x68, was considered a modern chambering, it was harshly criticized for its poor penetration and poor performance on buffalo.
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NitroX
.700 member
Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 40695
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
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I haven't used any of those cartridges but have killed a number of buffalo with the 9.3x74R driving a 286 gr bullet at a moderate 2,170 fps. Use a good bullet. So they are probably not far off in terms of power.
I imagine with a FMJ and very good bullet placement they could kill the heavier Big Five animals but I would prefer something bigger.
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John aka NitroX
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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"
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allenday
.333 member
Reged: 18/04/04
Posts: 318
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I think it's smart to ask yourself some serious questions when you consider various cartridges for African dangerous game use.
What draws you to your list of prospective chamberings in the first place?
Is this an exercise in nostalgia, or are you motivated by the pleasure of using something off-beat, obsolete, semi-obsolete, or just plain different? Is it an effort to achieve acceptable results with less recoil?
Objectively, are you being logistically smart, when there many other more well-established, more modern (or better updated) choices available that'll get the same jobs done just as well or better, with far less hassle, greater ammo, brass, and bullet availability, etc.
It's best to think all of these issues through very seriously before you make your purchase.......
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mickey
.416 member
Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
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Allen
I am driven by nostalgia. I do not think that there has been any cartridge invented in the last 70 years that is anything more than marginally superior to previous cartdridges. 
Never Hunt With a Cartridge Younger Than You Are. 
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Lovu Zdar
Mick
A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.
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Geronimo
.275 member
Reged: 14/04/04
Posts: 83
Loc: Michigan,USA
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I am given to nostalgia on occaision too. That's why I use the .470 NE and .500 NE on the big fellows! I think most of these quandries were worked out for us many years ago. I might add that the guys who figured out what calibers worked best, often had to learn the hard way. Some paid with their lives. Each to his own, but for me, I like a little extra margin,
Geronimo
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JPK
.375 member
Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
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Quote:
Allen
I am driven by nostalgia. I do not think that there has been any cartridge invented in the last 70 years that is anything more than marginally superior to previous cartdridges.
Never Hunt With a Cartridge Younger Than You Are.
For me to hunt with a cartridge younger than me, that would be suitable, rules out nothing significant, except for the 416 Remington and, if you consider it significant, the 375 Ruger.
I hunt with a 458wm, that cartridge is old enough to generate nastalgia for guys my age.
Is that a good thing? 
JPK
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allenday
.333 member
Reged: 18/04/04
Posts: 318
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Mickey, I can surely understand that.
For me, nostalgia is mostly about the 300 H&H and 375 H&H cartridges. I've got a very fine 375 H&H, and I plan to have a 300 H&H built to go along with it.
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