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mngane
.224 member


Reged: 09/03/04
Posts: 30
500 NE work?
      #96344 - 09/02/08 06:23 AM

Hey guys, I have a Marcel Thys, sidelock 500 NE that I would like to ask you guys some questions about. I bought the rifle in 1999, it came from a man in Oregon. The rifle was built for him in 1982 I must assume that he was strictly a collector or took the utmost care for his rifles, I do know that he had numerous exquisite rifles including a Jeffrey 600 NE underlever that was for sale also. The rifle I bought looked as if it had never been used. no marks, very tight, etc....pristine. I have used this rifle extensively. I have taken it on several safaris for Elephant and Buffalo, as well as it being my "go to" hog rifle here in Texas.
After using this rifle for the last 9 years, ther are several things that I have always wanted, and still want, to change.

The first Item is the barrel length. This rifle was built with 26 1/2 in barrels. I am a shorter man, 5'6" this translates to shorter arms and the long barrel on this rifle has always felt a bit barrel heavy and unwieldy in the thick brush. My last double was a 470 with 24" barrels. That rifle felt much more compact and easier to handle under hunting situations. I realize that we are only talking about 2 1/2 inches here but it does make a difference.

The other thing I would like to change is the forend. Most Thys rifles have s semi-bevertail forend. I find that the Holland and Holland style splinter is much more appealing asthetically, as well as a much better fit for my hand while carrying the rifle all day, and being able to hold the actual barrels when shooting I find is much better for me as well. The forend could easily have material removed and re-finished to this H&H style forend, this way the wood would still match.

My qestions are as follows:
The rifle is not a collectors piece as it was not made for a king, Prince, or Majaharaja, however; The rifle is in my oppinion a "best" rifle from a great Belginan Maker that is no longer around. (If I had the work done JJ Perodou would do the work and JJ was a student of Marcels at the gunsmithing school in Leige as well as Marcels agent while he was still building rifles, im sure yall know this) now to the questions, would having this work done take away from the value of the rifle or its desireability to a buyer if I was ever to part with it? Are the modifications practical?
Thanks to those who know more than me
Jason

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peter
removed


Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: 500 NE work? [Re: mngane]
      #96350 - 09/02/08 08:16 AM

now jason

im sure people who knows more will chime in, i only have a problem with the barrel cutting, its an emotionel thing. BUT THE BIG QUESTION IS??????.

WHERE ARE THE PICTURES

best regards


peter

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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: 500 NE work? [Re: mngane]
      #96351 - 09/02/08 08:20 AM

Jason,

I have owned many Thys rifles, the firm was truly a "best" gun maker founded on prominent hunting traditions.

I would not change the barrels or barrel length, though I understand your concerns. The rifle was regulated with that length barrel you have there, and weighted with them as well. In my opinion, if you planned to recoup your investment, assuming you bought it right, this may detract from resale, if altered. Guys at that level of moneys like the gun to be all original. As far as the forend goes, that's really simple to correct. Doug Turnbull did a splinter conversion for me on a Purdey, and it turned out perfect. They only need to reshape the forend, re-checker, and apply the wood re-finish. I think it was around $600.00

Hope this helps.

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mngane
.224 member


Reged: 09/03/04
Posts: 30
Re: 500 NE work? [Re: ]
      #96355 - 09/02/08 08:49 AM

Sinner,
Thanks for the reply, it is appreciated. I figured the same as what you say as far as the barrels are concerned, I do not ever plan to sell it but you never know, and honestly I do not know if I could bring myself to alter the barrels. I do believe that I bought it right also. At Reno I saw several Thys rifles built much more recently, one being a sidelock with simple blued sideplates and reciever, no engraving except for several small gold inlay animal heads and the asking price was leagues above what I was able to obtain mine for....
I did not know that Turnbull did wood work as well. I have used them for metal finishing and the work was perfect. Thanks for that as well, do you remember what your turnaround was? I know JJ is very busy and although the work is great he is in great demand which equates to 6-8 months turnaround, I fear.
As far as pics go, I do have one hunting picture that shows the rifle quite well, and hopefully this will do until I can take some pictures of the rifle itself this weekend. Thanks again and any more replies are welcome.

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4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: 500 NE work? [Re: mngane]
      #96357 - 09/02/08 09:16 AM

Jason,
A 500 NE by Thys would be a very nice rifle for sure!
Cutting (shortening) the barrels on doubles has been done on many different rifles over the years, but it is indeed major surgery and I would only consider doing it on a valuable rifle like yours if there was no other alternative.

The fore-end is another story.
If it was my rifle I too would want a splinter fore-end, but I would not modify the original wood.
Better to keep the original beavertail wood and just have a new splinter style wood made from scratch.
That way you are not affecting the originality of the rifle as the beavertail can be put back at any time in the future.

Back to the barrel length.
You say the gun feels a bit barrel heavy and a bit unwieldy.
It may be possible to shift the balance point back a little so that the rifle has a better feel for your hand positions.
You could also find that you may grip the barrels slightly more forward after the splinter fore-end is fitted, compared to the beavertail, and this would slightly help with the barrel heavyness as well.
To shift the balance point back some weight would need to be added to the buttstock.
If the gun is already a bit heavy this may not be suitable but if you can handle a little extra weight it may be an option.
Remember that even though 26.5 inches sounds long for a double, the overall length of the rifle is going to be shorter than a 24 inch barreled boltgun.
So, maybe, just maybe you could make this rifle handle better in your hands just by having a splinter fore-end wood made, and by bringing the balance point back a tad by weighting the buttstock.

If you do decide to cut the barrels however, my advice would be to make CERTAIN that the work being done, is of a standard equal or better than if it was done by the people who originally built the rifle.

Hope this helps and best of luck with whatever you decide to do.
And yes, some photos if possible please!

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NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: 500 NE work? [Re: 4seventy]
      #96365 - 09/02/08 10:38 AM

Jason

I agree with the previous posters.
Here is how I would procede.

I would have JJ make a new splinter fore-end using the original fore-end "iron". Thus saving the original fore-end wood.

I would see how the rifle handled with the new "front wood". If it was still to bbl heavy for me I would add weight to the butt stock.[ I would put a Murray Leather buttstock shell carrier on it, 6 rounds of 500 Nitro ammo should make it balance perfect.]

I would NEVER, EVER, cut down the barrels.

My favorite double rifle is a 450 No2 with 28 inch bbls.

I have used it in the THICK, THICK, THICK, Jess, for elephant and buff without problem.

Big Bore Doubles with 24 inch bbls feel to stubby to me.

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mngane
.224 member


Reged: 09/03/04
Posts: 30
Re: 500 NE work? [Re: NE450No2]
      #96685 - 14/02/08 04:21 AM

Hey guys here are the pics yall asked for.












Thanks for the advice also I believe I am going to have a new forend made using the metal from the existing forend. I appreciate all the input.
Jason

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mikeh416Rigby
.450 member


Reged: 24/02/03
Posts: 6051
Loc: The beautiful Oley Valley, PA....
Re: 500 NE work? [Re: mngane]
      #96690 - 14/02/08 05:00 AM

That is a beautiful example of fine art!

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JPK
.375 member


Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re: 500 NE work? [Re: mngane]
      #96720 - 14/02/08 12:42 PM

Mngane,

You have a beautiful Thys.

My favorite elephant and buffalo rifle is also a Marcel Thys sidelock, though mine is in 458wm.

Personally I like the longer barrels, mine are about 26 1/4" so are probably the same metric length.

I would never hesitate to change or alter a rifle to make it more suitable or functional. If I thought I couldn't alter a rifle to suit me, I would sell it pronto and replace it with a suitable rifle or one that I would alter. I've had my Thys reconfigured to suit me, though the barrel length wasn't an issue for me. I am a lefty and the rifle has been reworked to accomodate me, and it does.

Everyone talks "original" but if a rifle has had much use use it isn't likely to be original, at least if its in good condition, only safe queens are likely mint and original. I gaurantee the fellow who built or bought a second hand an H&H or Purdey rifle in the day who then thought the barrels were too long had them shortened, or thought the forend should be redone redid it.

Have JJ do the work and Marcel will enter it in the factory order book, that is a compromise if you need one.

Reregulating and rebalancing the rifle will be no big deal and this is right down JJ's alley. BTW, he was an aprentice to Thys as well as a student.

If it was mine, I'd leave the barrels as is and redo the forend. But if I thought, as you do, that the barrels were too long then I would redo the forend to see if I still thought that and if so, start cutting barrel by 1" increments until I was happy.

Can't resist posting a couple of photos of my Thys, below. The rifle had a temporary finish on the stock for this trip since I had been fitting it to me between trips and time ran out to fully refinish the stock.

Best,

JPK

Marcel Thys




Edited by JPK (14/02/08 12:49 PM)

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mngane
.224 member


Reged: 09/03/04
Posts: 30
Re: 500 NE work? [Re: JPK]
      #96751 - 15/02/08 02:00 AM

Thanks for the advice. I think I can live with the barrel length once I have the forend modified so that I can have a better hold on it. Those are some great pics of your trophies including the .458. Great gnarly old Nyati, where did you shoot him and the Nzhou?
Thanks Again
Jason

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4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: 500 NE work? [Re: mngane]
      #96782 - 15/02/08 12:40 PM

Jason,
Fantastic rifle!
You are a very lucky man!
Thanks for showing us.

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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: 500 NE work? [Re: 4seventy]
      #96784 - 15/02/08 01:49 PM

Not my business but I would leave it alone as there is always a chance that the gun will be screwed up in the modification process.

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NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: 500 NE work? [Re: 500grains]
      #96792 - 15/02/08 04:23 PM

That is a very nice looking double.

I say again, I would not change the bbl length.

I would have JJ make a new fore-end using the original fore-end iron, saving the original piece of fore-end wood.

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ozhunter
.400 member


Reged: 18/08/04
Posts: 1692
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Re: 500 NE work? [Re: NE450No2]
      #96794 - 15/02/08 05:24 PM

That is indeed a lovely rifle you have there. Also a great Buff by the way.
You obviously use the rifle the way it should be used.
On a rifle that I planed to use not collect, I would not hesitate to fine tune the stock the way you prefer it but I wouldn't touch the barrels .
PS; Did that Buffalo come from around lake Kariba?

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mngane
.224 member


Reged: 09/03/04
Posts: 30
Re: 500 NE work? [Re: ozhunter]
      #96822 - 16/02/08 05:26 AM

ozhunter,
yes the buffalo came from Omay south, about 1 1/2 hrs from the lake, right before the big hills start.
Jason

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ozhunter
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Reged: 18/08/04
Posts: 1692
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Re: 500 NE work? [Re: mngane]
      #96864 - 16/02/08 05:16 PM

This Bull came from with in those hills (Mapongola range) in Omay North.
Note the similar shape of horns with round Boss and long thin hooks.

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: 500 NE work? [Re: ozhunter]
      #96898 - 17/02/08 03:52 AM

mngane

A beautiful rifle. Could I get you to also post the pictures in the Double Rifle Photo Forum? That way anyone looking for a nice sidelock Thys can have a gander.

I guess I am the odd man out here but if after you have a new forend made and you are still not happy I would have the barrels shortened to what fits for you. My girlfriend is 5'4" and she also has a harder time with 26" tubes than 24" ones. There is just too much sticking out ahead of her hands to allow here to point easily.

To shorten the barrels they have to be taken completely a part and re built. It is not a case of just cutting off 2" and tweaking the regulation. I would not have the barrels shortened by anyone in the US. Erik Thys is still around and he could get the work done for you in Belgium where the Blacking and the work would be as original and would not effect the value.

A Double should be exactly the way the owner wants it. I had a MT 577 that was barrel heavy and I found, like someone else suggested, that the Murray Leather cartridge carrier on the Butt balanced the rifle perfectly. Just enough weight to make up for the bigger barrels and no stock damage.



I would try very hard to live with what you have though first.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: 500 NE work? [Re: mickey]
      #96904 - 17/02/08 04:31 AM

Mickey,

I believe he did post already in the proper section.

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=96757&an=0&page=0#Post96757

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JPK
.375 member


Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re: 500 NE work? [Re: mngane]
      #97013 - 19/02/08 05:16 AM

Mngane,

Thanks, the klipspringer and the buff are from Chewore South, the ele from Omay (South?.) The rifle has been all I could want for these DG examples and more. I'll be using it again this year for more eles too.

I hope you find the rifle near perfect with the trimmer forend.

My thinking when it comes to nearly anything man made is that if a man can make, another can either "remake" it with modifications, or make another essentially identical. WRT what Mickey says, if this is the case with the barrels, and if you continue to find the barrels too heavy or unweildy, then I would have a second set made, by JJ (and when I though the timing was not going to be an issue with any hunting, etc, have them sent Liege for proof), maybe in 500NE maybe 470 or 476 or? and have them entered into the factory order book.

JPK

Edited by JPK (19/02/08 05:31 AM)

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mngane
.224 member


Reged: 09/03/04
Posts: 30
Re: 500 NE work? [Re: JPK]
      #97020 - 19/02/08 06:17 AM

0zhunter,
Wow, it is uncanny the resembalance of the two buffalo. They definately look like the same genetic. Great buffal by the way. I love the thick stuff in the Omay, makes for some very exciting situations. Thanks everyone for the advice.
Jason

Edited by mngane (19/02/08 06:19 AM)

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