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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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DBBill
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Reged: 25/05/03
Posts: 137
Loc: Southern California, USA
Over & Unders or Side-by-Sides ---- Pros & Cons ??
      #9452 - 19/02/04 04:03 AM

Is one inherently stronger than the other? Ignoring the estetics, what are the good and bad points of each?

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ThomasEdwards
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Reged: 04/01/04
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Loc: Newport Beach, CA
Re: Over & Unders or Side-by-Sides ---- Pros & Cons ?? [Re: DBBill]
      #9477 - 19/02/04 08:52 AM

...heresay has it that ou's are inherently more accurate than ss's because of the vertical (vs horizontal) movement/flex of the barrels on discharge, and the fact that scope mounts (to the extent so supplied) are attached to the top (vs. barrel) rib...

...to the extent ou's traditionally utilize boxlock actions, ou's may prove to be more robust/reliable than ss's in sidelock form...

...imho, a scoped medium bore is more asthetically pleasing in an ou configuration than an ss configuration...tho a fixed sighted ss double in a traditional big bore calibre is an established art form...

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Dark_Helmet
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Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 399
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA
Re: Over & Unders or Side-by-Sides ---- Pros & Cons ?? [Re: ThomasEdwards]
      #9972 - 24/02/04 12:52 PM

edwards I think summed things up nicely... mechanically, the o/u seems much better suited to taking punishment from heavy-hitters, the balance and swing of a side-side is without peer... and as such is an undeniable asset to the design. the fast and more consistently you can get the gun on target the better and safer hunter you will be... and in any truly "wild" country, that is an asset without peer.

--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
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Re: Over & Unders or Side-by-Sides ---- Pros & Cons ?? [Re: Dark_Helmet]
      #10062 - 25/02/04 09:53 AM

In reply to:

the balance and swing of a side-side is without peer...



You guys just haven't handled the right O/U's yet!

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ThomasEdwards
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Re: Over & Unders or Side-by-Sides ---- Pros & Cons ?? [Re: 4seventy]
      #10082 - 25/02/04 10:52 AM

...i fully agree...my 9.3 ou handles much better than my smooth bore s-by-s's...tho i must admit that my s-by-s's seem to handle much better for sky-based shooting chores...

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luv2safari
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Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1410
Loc: United States
Re: Over & Unders or Side-by-Sides ---- Pros & Cons ?? [Re: 4seventy]
      #10094 - 25/02/04 12:13 PM

They haven't shot my pre war Merkel SL o/u 9.3 yet, Moonie. That nice looking o/u of yours sure looks like it finds the target all on its own!

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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Hawaiian_Hunter
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Reged: 25/02/04
Posts: 19
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Re: Over & Unders or Side-by-Sides ---- Pros & Cons ?? [Re: DBBill]
      #10111 - 25/02/04 03:50 PM

Depends on whether it's a boxlock or sidelock as far as strength, the boxlock being inherently stronger by design. I'm not aware of any O/U sidelocks so i'd say as a rule the O/U is stronger though if compared with a boxlock SxS then thing are equal, and personal choice comes into play. I prefer the lines of classic SxS double in the larger NE chamberings, and they are IMO easier to reload in a high stress situation with both chambers being on a equal plain. But for a non DG rifle a O/U double is dandy a Chapuis in 9.3 x 74R for example being very appealing to me.

--------------------
Illegitimus Non Carborundum

Edited by Hawaiian_Hunter (25/02/04 08:02 PM)

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ThomasEdwards
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Re: Over & Unders or Side-by-Sides ---- Pros & Cons ?? [Re: Hawaiian_Hunter]
      #10118 - 25/02/04 04:41 PM

hawaiian hunter (from, at or are?),

...fwiw, hollands, purdeys, beretta - to name a few - all make side locked ou's...saw a box locked a+s recently that had bottom detachable locks like the david mckay browns...

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Hawaiian_Hunter
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Re: Over & Unders or Side-by-Sides ---- Pros & Cons ?? [Re: ThomasEdwards]
      #10137 - 25/02/04 08:01 PM

Hello Mr. Edwards, to answer your question- all of the above. Thank you for the clarification, I stand corrected. I was not aware an O/U in sidelock was available. Must be a thing of beauty just to have the additional surface to embellish with engraving. You have inspired me to do more research. Thank you.

--------------------
Illegitimus Non Carborundum

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RobertD
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Reged: 16/11/03
Posts: 67
Loc: East Bay, CA, USA
Re: Over & Unders or Side-by-Sides ---- Pros & Cons ?? [Re: DBBill]
      #10141 - 26/02/04 02:18 AM

DBBill:

The answer to your question is: depends. For a given weight, an o/u will be stronger. However, for a few ounces, one can easily make sxs stronger.

I think it isn't a question of which is better, it is a question of which you prefer. I prefer a sxs myself, but a strong one. The purchasing a double to me means shooting it. The thought of a limited lifespan would keep me from buying it.

How well it handles is more a function of the center of gravity and weight than anything else. It isn't difficult to make either a sxs or an o/u handle poorly.

RobertD

--------------------
NRA Life Member
CRPA Life Member
SCI Golden Gate Member

"Time is never found, if you want time for something, you have to make it."

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475Guy
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Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: Over & Unders or Side-by-Sides ---- Pros & Cons ?? [Re: RobertD]
      #10144 - 26/02/04 02:32 AM

RobertD, are you aware of the Grand Concours in Sacramento area in April? Butch Searcy has a booth there every year since this thing started. It's basically a Double Rifle and Shotgun show and Shoot. PM me for details.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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ThomasEdwards
.300 member


Reged: 04/01/04
Posts: 246
Loc: Newport Beach, CA
Re: Over & Unders or Side-by-Sides ---- Pros & Cons ?? [Re: Hawaiian_Hunter]
      #10204 - 26/02/04 04:52 PM

hawaiian hunter,

...that's great, do you hunt on the outer islands?...

...no apologies required...we are all lifetime students in the most honourable of sporting traditions...and are able to access specialized expertise from sites such as this...

...a good starting point on your 'double' journey would be to subscribe to the double gun journal (and perhaps pick up back issues)...you can also request product materials from the better known gunmakers...

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Dark_Helmet
.333 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 399
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA
Re: Over & Unders or Side-by-Sides ---- Pros & Cons ?? [Re: ThomasEdwards]
      #10215 - 26/02/04 09:37 PM

In reply to:

i fully agree...my 9.3 ou handles much better than my smooth bore s-by-s's...tho i must admit that my s-by-s's seem to handle much better for sky-based shooting chores...



should have noted that most of my shooting throughout life has been shot-gunning birds and clays of various types... I'd never trade my o/u field gun, but if I was starting all over again... I'd make the other choice...

--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

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Hawaiian_Hunter
.224 member


Reged: 25/02/04
Posts: 19
Loc: MAUI NO KA OI
Re: Over & Unders or Side-by-Sides ---- Pros & Cons ?? [Re: ThomasEdwards]
      #10357 - 28/02/04 03:56 PM

Aloha Mr. Edwards, I presently reside on Maui, but was raised on the island of Oahu, and have also lived on the Big Island of Hawaii. I have hunted on Oahu, Maui, Hawaii (Big Island), Moloka'i, and Lana'i. I do have family on Kaua'i but have never hunted there though this Island is the only one that has a huntable population of Columbia Blacktail Deer. Mostly I hunt Axis Deer, Wild Boar, Mauanakea and Mouflon Sheep, Wild Goat, and a variety of gamebirds. The Big Island probley has the best hunting opportunities especially on public lands. There are large exotics available like Bison, and Elk on Maui, and the Big Island. The local BORDER'S Bookstore does carry the Double Gun Journal which I on occassion do pick up. I just may have to pick up the most recent issue on my next drive into town. I have had a love affair with doubleguns in general since childhood but so far have been limited to shotguns. I'm saving my pennies for a 9.3 x 74R Double SXS rifle by one of the Italian, or German makers that are more realistic in attaining then a used H&H, or Purdey. What a great Wild Boar gun that would be...

--------------------
Illegitimus Non Carborundum

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475Guy
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: Over & Unders or Side-by-Sides ---- Pros & Cons ?? [Re: Hawaiian_Hunter]
      #10358 - 28/02/04 04:00 PM

HH, you're on the right track. Only problem is after that one somebody will let you light off one in 470 NE and you're hooked for life.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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luv2safari
.400 member


Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1410
Loc: United States
Re: Over & Unders or Side-by-Sides ---- Pros & Cons ?? [Re: Hawaiian_Hunter]
      #10360 - 28/02/04 04:14 PM

Hawaii,

Don't overlook a good Valmet or Tikka o/u in 9,3 while you are waiting for the right SXS. You can pick them up for around $1,000.00- $1,200.00; their own QR scope mounts are around $65.00-$80.00. These make a nice first 9,3 DR and are easy to sell, when the time for that just right SXS shows up.

Mine are more accurate than my Merkel.

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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ThomasEdwards
.300 member


Reged: 04/01/04
Posts: 246
Loc: Newport Beach, CA
Re: Over & Unders or Side-by-Sides ---- Pros & Cons ?? [Re: Hawaiian_Hunter]
      #10368 - 28/02/04 06:27 PM

hawaiian hunter,

...aloha to you as well...seems as if you are indeed in paradise...a tropical version of the african plains...

...as others will attest, you may also wish to consider a scoped drilling (7x57/20/20) or a scoped ou (two-barreled set) for all of your hawaiian (and international) hunting adventures...you can usually pick these up new for less than 7-8k, and used for less than 5k...

...another way to live your double gun fantasies and to own purdeys, hollands, boss', greener's, etc. is to purchase books on these most celebrated of gunmakers or to read the time-warping exploits of selous, bell, taylor, etc...

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Hawaiian_Hunter
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Reged: 25/02/04
Posts: 19
Loc: MAUI NO KA OI
Re: Over & Unders or Side-by-Sides ---- Pros & Cons ?? [Re: ThomasEdwards]
      #10452 - 01/03/04 12:00 AM

I have nothing against to a nice O/U rifle of reasonable price, the Valmets in particular seem to be great work guns. As far as dual calibered guns sadly the State of Hawaii does not allow hunting using drillings, why I haven't a clue. I grew up reading the exploits of Ruark, Bell, Taylor, and Selous, and later on in life Capstick. That's where my love of Doubleguns began, and that is why I try to stay away from the Double Gun Journal or else be lead into temptation. The Searcy guns sound great, and maybe that will be my goal, after i'm through putting my 2 sons through college, and hopefully having some money left over afterwards. Thank you all for the input.

--------------------
Illegitimus Non Carborundum

Edited by Hawaiian_Hunter (01/03/04 12:11 AM)

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Chasseur
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Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: Over & Unders or Side-by-Sides ---- Pros & Cons ?? [Re: Hawaiian_Hunter]
      #10467 - 01/03/04 03:43 AM

Hawaii Hunter,

Good to see another Hawaiian on the forum. I was born on Oahu, and most of my familly stay Big Island Hilo-Honoka'a side. How's the hunting Maui?

I go back to the Big Island some holidays and hunt pig on Mauna Kea and chukkars and quail there. Damn those little chukkars are hard to hunt up there on the lava rocks, but real fun hunting!



--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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475Guy
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Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: Over & Unders or Side-by-Sides ---- Pros & Cons ?? [Re: Chasseur]
      #10476 - 01/03/04 06:04 AM

Hey you two aren't the only ones. I was born in Honolulu a year after my dad mustered out of the Arty Corps. I popped out before the scheduled boat trip here to Ca. I was told that I didn't let the waves bother me but my mom was sick all the time she was on the ship. Work in Hawaii was tough to come by in those post WWII days and Ca. was deemed the land of opportunity.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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Hawaiian_Hunter
.224 member


Reged: 25/02/04
Posts: 19
Loc: MAUI NO KA OI
Re: Over & Unders or Side-by-Sides ---- Pros & Cons ?? [Re: Chasseur]
      #10477 - 01/03/04 06:45 AM

Aloha Chasseur, I lived in Kainalui near Kealakekua on the Kona side of Big Island a few years back. Tons of Kalij Pheasant, and more Wild Turkey (the bird ) than you know what to do with. We hunted sheep in Greenwell Ranch, but drove 3 hours to hunt boar up in Laupahoehoe, as the Kona boar were too gamey tasty. Will probley eventually settle there as land on Maui too expensive for locals to afford, I rent, and all my neighbors are rich lawyers or doctors from the mainland that have moved in the last 8 years. Land prices have almost tripled in 8 years. Here on Maui private land hunting is great with population explosion of Axis Deer, and plenty Wild Boar but access is almost impossible, with public land being mediocre at best. I have pheasant in my backyard but too attached to them to shot um. Chukars here are mostly on National Park Land, tons of them, like barnyard chickens. But when you find them on public lands they are alot of fun.

--------------------
Illegitimus Non Carborundum

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ThomasEdwards
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Reged: 04/01/04
Posts: 246
Loc: Newport Beach, CA
Re: Over & Unders or Side-by-Sides ---- Pros & Cons ?? [Re: Hawaiian_Hunter]
      #10482 - 01/03/04 07:10 AM

hawaiian hunter,

...if i may be so bold, do you hunt privately, or do you book through outfitters?...

...if i were interested in a wild boar/upland hunt in paradise, how would one go about it?...outfitter?...which island?...what time of the year?...is it hard to clear firearms through honolulu?...or should one take a direct flight (from the 'mainland') to, say kona or hilo?...

...thanks for your thoughts...

...aloha...

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Hawaiian_Hunter
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Reged: 25/02/04
Posts: 19
Loc: MAUI NO KA OI
Re: Over & Unders or Side-by-Sides ---- Pros & Cons ?? [Re: ThomasEdwards]
      #10504 - 01/03/04 11:53 AM

Aloha Mr. Edwards,
Being a Government employee all my hunts are strictly low budget, majority being on public land with access to a couple pieces of property owned by close personal friends. For guarrantted results I would suggest using an outfitter. IMHO the besy outfitter in the State is Eugene Yap of South Point Safaris. He is located in the prime hunting area the Big Island but has access to all islands, and their respective game animals. For Birds especially Wild Turkey you can't beat Deane Gonzalez amazing calling skills. Rodney Perreira Jr. of Maui has a great reputation for Wild Boar. You can also contact the Mauna Kea Beach Hotel which books hunts on the Famous Parker Ranch on the Big Island, or you can contact the various Ranches directly, Ulupalakua on Maui, and Parker, Kahuku, Kahua Ranch on the Big Island to name a few. Best bet would be to call Eugene Yap at 808 322-3201 and "talk story" with him on what type of hunt, and what kind of game is available. You can hunt from Bison to Black Buck. Guns are no problem as long as they are declared when checking onto flights. Eugene should be able to provide all the details you need. Here's some links that may help below.
http://www.hawaii.gov/dlnr/dcre/Guides2002.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/9195/outfitters.html
I hope I have answered all your questions, have a great day.

P.S. All hunts are free, and open range fair chase hunts.

--------------------
Illegitimus Non Carborundum

Edited by Hawaiian_Hunter (01/03/04 11:55 AM)

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ThomasEdwards
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Reged: 04/01/04
Posts: 246
Loc: Newport Beach, CA
Re: Over & Unders or Side-by-Sides ---- Pros & Cons ?? [Re: Hawaiian_Hunter]
      #10526 - 01/03/04 02:42 PM

hawaiian hunter,

...many thanks for the great advice...i talked to the e. yap people a few years ago at an sci convention...seemed well versed and competent, and perhaps the best way to go for a newbie...am thinking about a hawaiian hunt in the next year or so...

...from the description of your hunting exploits, it seems as if you have been able to do everything a well-heeled hunter would have been able to do...and let's not forget that some of the most celebrated hunters were at one time considered vagrant outlaws living on the edge...

...aloha and good hunting...

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