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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Muzzleloaders & Blackpowder
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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5313
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Flintlock problem
      #93670 - 07/01/08 01:34 AM

Hello frontstuffers,

Indulge me as I visit here from the Double Rifle forum.

Let me bother you with a technical question concerning my rifle.

I have a very nice .54 flintlock made by Warren Fitzgerald of Covington, VA about 20 years ago. It's a very traditional rifle of the German-American school ca. 1840. I think the lock is an off-the-shelf Siler.

My problem is the fit between the frizzen and pan. The last time I hunted with it I carried the rifle a good distance without a shot. At the end of the day I opened the frizzen to blow away the priming charge and found that the priming charge was already gone. My experiments reveal that there is sufficient gap between the frizzen and pan to allow GEOX 4F to slowly leak out.

I would like to have confidence that in the unlikely event of sneaking up on a whitetail, the rifle will fire. Can you suggest a remedy? My best idea is to smear a bit of bullet lube between the contact surfaces.

Thanks in advance.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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DarylSModerator
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Flintlock problem [Re: CptCurl]
      #93689 - 07/01/08 03:32 AM

Hi Curl - Check to ensure when at 1/2 cock, the leading edge of the flint isn't pushing the frizzen(hammer) back off the pan. This is a common problem with long flints.
; If this is the case, you can use a small knapping hammer to knock off some chips off the rear of the flint to shorten it a bit. I have to do that, sometimes.
; If frizzen(hammer) to pan fit is the problem, you need to make it fit by dressing the pan, or frizzen base. If the pan is flat to the rest of the lock, then the frizzen base has to be dressed. The frizzen and featehr spring must be removed to do this, then ressembld to chekc fit, now and then as it progresses. Use inletting ink to show the highs pots, don't trust your eyes. It's not a big job, just finicky. You could send me the lock to repair, but I'd ask for assistance on ALR site. There must be someone living closer to you who could help if you don't want to tackle this job. I'm in BC. Mail me.

Daryl

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Dphariss
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Reged: 18/04/06
Posts: 130
Loc: Montana
Re: Flintlock problem [Re: CptCurl]
      #93733 - 07/01/08 01:50 PM

As Daryl says check the flint.
I fit frizzens to pan with files and scrapers. A small scraper made of O1 and drawn to a straw temper will cut soft parts easily and allow removing metal that cannot be done with a file without removing the surrounding area.
The problem may be that the pivot hole in the frizzen is a little too high. This will make it difficult to impossible to get a good fit.
If this is the case, the frizzen gaps at the pivot end, if you buy a new frizzen it can be fitted then the hole drilled with the frizzen clamped in place. Having a soft frizzen allows it to be files and scraped as well. The hardened frizzen can be annealed.
I use blue or black magic markers to find contact between the parts.
Most people who assemble locks do not ream the various holes for a tight fit. Simply drilling with a clearance drill makes for a sloppy lock. Especially the frizzen.
The other option, assuming the lock has not been engraved or much modified, is to replace it with one that has a better frizzen fit.
Dan

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szihn
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Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States
Re: Flintlock problem [Re: Dphariss]
      #94044 - 11/01/08 02:22 PM

Well filing and scraping is sometimes in order for such problems, but if the gaps are big it's easier to get a new frizzen (from Jim Chambers Flintlocks) and fit it the correct way.

To do this, solder the frizzen down tight to the pan with low temp soft solder. Then use the existing hole as a drill guide to drill through the foot of the new frizzen. This will insure the best possible fit from a frizzen "as cast" When you have the hole drilled, reheat to drop the frizzen off and harden and temper the new frizzen.

To put the final touch to the fit, screw the new frizzen back on and scrape the pan so you get a dead tight fit after the hardening and tempering is done. Sometimes the heat treatment warps it a few thousands of an inch, so that's the reason you do it last. But if you do the job as I have outlined here, the amount of work is greatly reduced.

happy hunting
Steve Zihn

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5313
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Flintlock problem [Re: szihn]
      #94071 - 11/01/08 11:05 PM

The problem is not the flint. I know better than that.

Quote:

Well filing and scraping is sometimes in order for such problems, but if the gaps are big it's easier to get a new frizzen (from Jim Chambers Flintlocks) and fit it the correct way.

To do this, solder the frizzen down tight to the pan with low temp soft solder. Then use the existing hole as a drill guide to drill through the foot of the new frizzen. This will insure the best possible fit from a frizzen "as cast" When you have the hole drilled, reheat to drop the frizzen off and harden and temper the new frizzen.

To put the final touch to the fit, screw the new frizzen back on and scrape the pan so you get a dead tight fit after the hardening and tempering is done. Sometimes the heat treatment warps it a few thousands of an inch, so that's the reason you do it last. But if you do the job as I have outlined here, the amount of work is greatly reduced.

happy hunting
Steve Zihn



Steve, Would you be willing to do that job for me? If so, can you give a rough estimate of the cost?

Thanks,
Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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szihn
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Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States
Re: Flintlock problem [Re: CptCurl]
      #94084 - 12/01/08 03:47 AM

Well sure, if you'd like.

I can't quote it as I have not seen the lock. The worst case scenario is that the pan is drilled not only high or low, but at a slant. If it is "as bad as it can get" the fix would be to replace the pan and the frizzen both. These 2 parts and the 2 screws would cost about $25, shipped to me.

If I had to fit the new pan and new frizzen, and do the heat treatment, the whole project would come to about $50-$60 If only the frizzen just needs to be replaced, and the pan is fine I would have to guess the cost would be about $30 and $40 tops

Now this has to be judged against the price of a new lock from Jim Chambers. The Siler locks come from him perfectly set up, and they cost about $115. They are in the white, so they have to be finished, and if your lock is engraved you'd want to repair it instead of replace it I think.

Engraving costs more, but it all depends on how much engraving you have done, and how fine that engraving is. It can be $30 and it can be $150.

Color casing is more still.

So you see why I say I need to see the lock before I give you any quotes?

Anyway, in most cases, it's probably best to repair.
E-mail me at buchsenmeister@yahoo.com and we'll work out the details.

Steve

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5313
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Flintlock problem [Re: szihn]
      #94638 - 18/01/08 11:42 PM

Steve,

I think what I would like to do is to mail my lock to you for inspection so we can decide the best course of action. I'll follow up with this in a month or so. I can't do it now because I don't have the use of my right arm at present because of a recent accident and shoulder surgery.

I'll be in touch. And thanks for your help.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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szihn
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Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States
Re: Flintlock problem [Re: CptCurl]
      #94666 - 19/01/08 09:33 AM

OK
I am here when you need me.
Just let me know what will work for you.

Steve

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