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Yogi000
.333 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 265
Loc: New York, USA
Re: how do you prepare [Re: ]
      #93811 - 08/01/08 06:57 AM

I have my neighbors kids run around the back yard, nekked except their diapers, and I try to hit them with my double barrel dart gun with rubber tips... 5 points for a perfect diaper shot in the arse.

errr, only jokin' fellas, I though a little levity might, and I repeat might, help...

actually shooting alot and preferably at a moving target is a good idea. I am working on making a target that charges toward you. Basically two clotheline pulleys, electric motor powered, and a frame that holds a paper target of a lion, hog, jag, etc... Starts at 35 feet away, and comes at you fast! ...But for know I put jugs up at different distances and in different terrain and snap shoot at them.


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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: how do you prepare [Re: ]
      #93814 - 08/01/08 07:24 AM

While it is necessary and appropriate to practice enough with your double so that you are competent and skillful in its use, overdoing it can cause a flinch and screw up your hunt. Thus I would recommend that most practice rounds be fired in a mild-recoiling caliber, with only 20 or so full power DGR rounds fired per week in advance of a hunt.

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Pilgrim
.275 member


Reged: 25/05/04
Posts: 57
Loc: Washington State, USA
Re: how do you prepare [Re: 500grains]
      #93821 - 08/01/08 09:07 AM

Thank you 500Grains! I don't know how anyone can shoot their DG rifles enough to claim proficiency given both the cost of the ammunition and the recoil of the rifles. Even if you reload, the cost of the shots has to be greater than $2/round or thereabouts. My 9.3 using Noslers is roughly $1.50 per shot. That's one of the reasons why I'm going to cast bullets in that rifle. If somebody on this board ONLY shoots big bores and shoots those a lot (20 rounds per week or so), I tip my hat to them. They are tougher than this writer by a fair amount. If you are a PH and carry and shoot your DG rifle year round, I'll concede proficiency due to the familiarity alone. However, consistent with 500Grains comment, that is exactly why I have a Chapuis UGEX in 7x65R on order to complement my UGEX in 9.3X74R. Does the 9.3mm recoil objectionably? Not really, although 20 plus rounds in a single range session is certainly noticable. FWIW...Pilgrim

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EricD
.416 member


Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 4636
Re: how do you prepare [Re: k80]
      #93832 - 08/01/08 10:27 AM

Here's a thread from a few years ago regarding practice on moving targets. Suitable for both doubles and bolt actions: "Charging Elephant Sled"

The "Charging Elephant", which was dragged by a car past the shooter:



More detailed info can be seen by clicking on the link.

Erik


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JPK
.375 member


Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re: how do you prepare [Re: EricD]
      #93840 - 08/01/08 02:02 PM

Sinner,

Your post again avoids answering questions originally posted in my earlier posts, and really you made no points. Try rereading your own posts, this will then become clear, even to you.

After three dodges, you do not answer, but imply reluctantly, grudgingly, that one single reasonable answer, a foregone conclussion, that no you can't stand 120 rounds of big bore in a single session. That having been a given, then makes it obvious that your response to my suggestion of using a 22 to learn to shoot offhand was just the drive by, egotictical sarcasm that I noted.

You continue to dodge the question regarding whether you cut your teeth with a 470 or equivelent recoiling rifle. You continue with the red herring about having owned, collected and shot many double rifles over a lifetime. Well and good, but not relevant to learning to shoot off hand, not relevant to learning to do it relatively quickly. The answer to my question is again a given, highlighting the rude sarcasm your post represents.

You report that of the total rounds that you shoot, shotgun vs. big bore double rifle, you shoot 60% shotgun, 40% rifle. The conclussions to be drawn here are that you do not shoot much, or at least that you do not shoot much with a shotgun. It appears that your qualifications regarding your rude response to my suggestion that becoming familiar with any SxS ejector or extractor and any two trigger SxS as well as dynamic shooting are a bit thin, certainly too thin to warrant your sarcasm.

If you are unfamiliar with my double rifles, or at least one of them, and the uses I put them to, it is because your membership here post dates mine by about two years. There have been many threads, some recent, where photos of at least one of my rifles have appeared to show some particular feature as an example or to answer a question.

I have not owned the number of double rifles that you seem to have nor am I interested in serial rifle ownership or collecting either. My interest are predominantly utilitarian. Rifles are tools. The big bore double rifle the the most specialized, the ultimate tool for close range dangerous game, especially elephants, and this is why I own one. I believe that the back action sidelock ejector is the ultimate big bore double rifle as well, and this is why my double rifles are back action sidelock ejectors. I believe that newer made rifles are the better choice, overall, for the hunter as opposed to the collector, and so my back action sidelock ejector double rifles are not vintage collector rifles.

I am asked infrequently about double rifles regarding technical or historical matter, and I refer the questioner to the appropriate party or individual to find the answer to their question. I am asked frequently about hunting, and hunting with double rifles. Some inquiries come from fellows who have read my reports here or elsewhere, some fewer from fellows refered by my booking agency. I answer with facts as I know them or my opinion if the question is within my experience.

I am not an arm chair expert on double rifles, and not an arm chair expert on using a big bore double rifle for its ultimate purpose either. And that is the point, K80 asked a question about preparing for a hunt, and I answered with my opinion based on my experience. You did not, you offered nothing helpful, you offerd only rude sarcasm without any alternative suggestion.

JPK

Edited by JPK (08/01/08 02:12 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39896
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: how do you prepare [Re: JPK]
      #93845 - 08/01/08 03:29 PM

Gentlemen,

Please take personal arguments to private messages.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: how do you prepare [Re: NitroX]
      #93846 - 08/01/08 03:43 PM

Quote:

What other types of pressure do you put on yourself to
preform?




No one has answered this part of the initial question.

I wonder, does anyone here also engage in any sort of physical preparation, strengthening muscles, physical fitness.

Many double rifles are quite heavy, particularly in comparison to a 'normal' rifle. People always exclaim when picking up my .450 as it is heavier than needs to be at around 13 lbs.

In the field with a proper sling, and I do use a sling, a webbing one with padding, which is very comfortable, I don't really notice it, until my shoulder actually starts to hurt. I tend to carry my rifles mainly on one houlder. And I learned from experience that ache in the field may last for days if shoulders are not switched enough.

So what do the USERS and HUNTERS with double rifles here do to prepare for the actual hunt? Maybe perfectly physically fit from one's daily life perhaps?!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Bramble
.375 member


Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: how do you prepare [Re: NitroX]
      #93847 - 08/01/08 03:49 PM



Well, I've been promising to get back to SA since the summer to see SA Hunt, I started conditioning my liver about October
Not strictly about double rifles but more hunt preperation.

See you soon mate !!


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Arctic
.275 member


Reged: 01/04/04
Posts: 87
Loc: Arctic Canada
Re: how do you prepare [Re: Bramble]
      #93851 - 08/01/08 07:07 PM

One of the preps I use, and have incorporated for agencies, is a 100 yard dash, pick up a 60 lb. truck tire, run around a small building, grab your rifle, and start the course. It pumps you up, provides a strenuous activity, and gets your heart and mind going, similar to a lot of hunting. Then you work your way down the course with EFFECTIVE shooting. As we all know, misses don't count, but result in fertilized ground!
Practice off a bench is fine for checking your rifle, but is not practice for hunting situations.

If one does not want to practice shooting, then practice running with your shorts full!
~Arctic~

--------------------
"A stranger is a friend we haven't met!"


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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: how do you prepare [Re: NitroX]
      #93869 - 09/01/08 01:03 AM

Quote:

Quote:

What other types of pressure do you put on yourself to
preform?




No one has answered this part of the initial question.




Actually, I did answer just that. I don't own a double but that is what I have to offer this discussion, since the answer to that question doesn't hinge on the gun {no pun intended... }. See my above post:

Only thing NEW I'll add here is try doing wind sprints before your shot strings. It sort of helps to duplicate the adrenaline rush/stress most feellows experience in the presence of game. We sprint, ski, snowshoe, whatever. Do pushups if you are at a public range {my range is on my own place}. All that stuff works.

I read an interesting report some time ago that linked steadiness of police under "street" stress to competitive shooting, the point being made that similar physiological conditions exist {adrenaline, breathing, etc} when under the stress of timed competitive events and when faced with a "Bad Guy" in an confusing street situation. Cops who were competitive shooters performed better. How that was judged exactly I do not know.

Anyway, we have found that adding physical stress to shooting sessions acts similarly, i.e., the physical challenge duplicates the stress often facing us under field conditions when hunting.

Doing wind sprints, etc at the firing line is helpful even if your hunt is not going to be physically challenging, as it helps teach you to settle down, calm your nerves, control your breathing, deal with YOUR abilities, and most importantly, LEARN YOUR OWN LIMITATIONS. Think about it. Most shots in the field are blown because a hunter tries to accomplish something he is unsure about, hasn't tried before, or is totally unprepared for. Anything that can help you learn what your own limitations are {fitness or shooting}, and then allow you to verbalize them to your PH, will make you a better and more successful hunter. Don't ever look at another guys groups and assume that is what you MUST do. Shoot enough to find out what YOU can do, then work within your limitations.

These are lessons we have learned here. No, it is true, we do not have the amounts of game that some other places do. But that forces us to be all the more ready for the shots we are given. And to add injury to insult, what we do have is darn hard conditions and physical challenges that force us to get ready for it all year long {daily conditioning} OR adopt "Pasty Fat Ass" hunting methods {riding around on a 4-wheeler, etc} that bring no satisfaction to this hunter. For example, in a half hour, in the dark, I'm headed out for my normal morning, 1 1/2 hour snowshoe hike up the mountain, packing a gun, naturally. Some days I ski. Being quite honest, this is a very tough pull and not particularly pleasant, and those who have done this type of activity in steep and rough terrain in varying depths of snow and ice can back me up here. That's this time of year. We maintain our workouts all year long, varying with the seasons and they serve us well come hunting season. I have a host of physical ailments to contend with, but I do what I can. Fortunately, everything below the waist still works fine!!

Much African hunting is amazingly easy and amounts to in effect what we call "road hunting" until critters are identified, followed by either almost no stalk or a stalk of very short distance {up to a mile}. But that is not always the case, and some hunting is quite physically demanding. On an expensive hunt, it would behoove the hunter to find out just what he is going to face and then prepare for it. It may demand nothing more than "liver prep" or it may demand an intense cardiovascular program. Find out before the hunt, not during!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Edited by 9ThreeXFifty7 (09/01/08 01:15 AM)


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Yogi000
.333 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 265
Loc: New York, USA
Re: how do you prepare [Re: 9.3x57]
      #93881 - 09/01/08 03:32 AM

I think the wind sprints between shots is a great prep. I also hike steep terrain on my land and have targets set up in different locations.

Getting the heart thumping and then taking a shot is excellent preparation.


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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: how do you prepare [Re: ]
      #93902 - 09/01/08 12:48 PM

I just wish I could prepare for a DG hunt

I might have to resign myself to being a collector and shooter of double rifles given the craziness of Afrika. Of course there is always Grizzlies.

B.


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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: how do you prepare [Re: NitroX]
      #93912 - 09/01/08 03:13 PM

Quote:

Quote:

What other types of pressure do you put on yourself to
preform?




No one has answered this part of the initial question.

I wonder, does anyone here also engage in any sort of physical preparation, strengthening muscles, physical fitness.

Many double rifles are quite heavy, particularly in comparison to a 'normal' rifle. People always exclaim when picking up my .450 as it is heavier than needs to be at around 13 lbs.

In the field with a proper sling, and I do use a sling, a webbing one with padding, which is very comfortable, I don't really notice it, until my shoulder actually starts to hurt. I tend to carry my rifles mainly on one houlder. And I learned from experience that ache in the field may last for days if shoulders are not switched enough.

So what do the USERS and HUNTERS with double rifles here do to prepare for the actual hunt? Maybe perfectly physically fit from one's daily life perhaps?!





WOW--I have been gone for a couple days and see some of us are still not getting along..


Nitro,

With respect to your questions on physical preparation--I lift weights 4 to 5 days per week for about 1 1/2 hours per session--switching between body parts--upper body one day-chest and triceps-lower next-squats, leg presses, curls, calves..and back to upper doing back, shoulders and biceps-

Now primarily for strength--heavier weight and lower reps..when I get 8 weeks out-I switch my routine around to higher reps and lower weight to increase endurance..

Along with the lifting..I include cardio training..either ride a bike, cross trainer or run for 20 to 30 minutes 3 times per week... as I get closer to my hunt I might pick that up a bit..once spring hits here with warmer weather I start to hike the mountains by my house--I am only 10 minutes from a trail head.. this seems to have worked quite well for me in the past and again I adjust my training based on the type of hunt I am going on--if it is going to be more in mountainous areas, I will lift less and more cardio..been doing this type of varying routines for 30 plus years...

Thanks,

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Taylor416
.300 member


Reged: 25/11/04
Posts: 161
Loc: Central West, New South Wales....
Re: how do you prepare [Re: ]
      #93949 - 10/01/08 12:22 AM




A branch of the BIG GAME RIFLE CLUB in S.A. would be good!!!!!!!

cheers Chris

--------------------
Love to hunt!


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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: how do you prepare [Re: k80]
      #93952 - 10/01/08 02:32 AM

Quote:

What other types of pressure do you put on yourself to preform?




I have waited for someone else to mention it, but since no one has, I will bring it up. As far as pressure is concerned, nothing, in my opinion, beats competitive shooting.

Consider the pressure generated by high power rifle competition with a bolt action rifle: the first stage consists of 20 rounds fired standing, unsupported, at a target 200 yards distant, with a 7" ten ring, for a possible score of 200, using a rifle which may weigh from 10 to 14 pounds and metallic sights, in a time limit of 20 minutes. If you shoot, as I do, a .308 Winchester, there is some recoil to deal with, enough to assure that you will be punished for an unbalanced position. To add to the fun, you may be shooting under wind conditions which make you feel thankful that you are able to hit the 6'X 6' target, or heat conditions which may have you virtually dehydrated by the end of the 20 shot string, or heat and light conditions which create a mirage which may distort the target to a blob. When I was younger, I could expect to shoot in the high 180's or low 190's, but now, at age 68, I have to be content with a 175 or better.

The next stage is rapid fire, sitting from standing, two strings of ten shots each in a time limit of 60 seconds, at a range of 200 yards. Sitting is naturally a much steadier position, but assuming the position quickly and efficiently takes practice and the manipulating the bolt in such a way as not to desturb your natural alignment and aim takes even more practice. Each shot has to be lined up carefully and the trigger squeeze executed rapidly, but not so rapidly as to disturb the sight picture. After five shots, the shooter must remove the rifle from his shoulder and reload, an action which allows for no fumbling. If I do my part, I can be expected to be rewarded with a score in the high 190's.

At 300 yards, the rapid fire stage is the same, except the position is standing to prone, and the time limit is increased to 70 seconds, although the size of the scoring rings on the target remains the same. Again, if I have judged the wind correctly and have done my part, I should score in the 190's.

The fourth stage consists of 20 shots, slow fire, at a target incorporating a 12" ten ring, at 600 yards, in a time limit of 20 minutes. Again, wind and heat play important roles, with wind speeds often sufficient to move the bullet impact up to 24" and temperatures which can raise the pulse rate to 130 and beyond. I try to fire my string in 12 minutes or less, having concluded that my eyesight begins to fail due to the effects of overheating on a firing line where the temperatures are often well above 90 degrees. With perfectly loaded ammunition, outstanding bullets, and adequate wind doping, I can expect a score of 195 or above.

More to the point for double rifles specifically is international skeet shooting, where the targets move about 100 mph., the gun stock must be touching the hip bone when the target is called for and cannot be shouldered until the target appears, and there is a variable delay of 0 to 3 seconds between the command "Pull" and the release of the trap. If you are using a S/S double rifle with double triggers, try shooting this course with a similarly configured shotgun, preferably one with barrel inserts for a smaller gauge, which increase the barrel weight to more closely approximate the balance of a DR. Most skeet fields are not set up to throw international targets and do not have the delay feature, but asking your friend who is shooting with you to vary the release times works just as well for practice purposes. There will be no problem creating increased adrenaline flow and rapid breathing, especially at station 8, where you face the trap houses and the targets fly almost directly overhead. The time for reaction is virtually nil.

Last Sunday was the last day of our deer season. I was walking back to the vehicle after a fruitless two hour wait in a ground blind and another hour's wandering through my property, when I noticed movement and the flicker of a white tail on the farm road in front of me. I put my BRNO 21H 7X64 Mauser to my shoulder and peered through the Unertl 4X scope. I could make out a good sized doe about 100 yards away, standing broadside in the path. There was a slight rise between me and the deer, so there was no possibility of using the kneeling or sitting position. Using the same technique of trigger control and aim I have practiced for years on the rifle range, I set the trigger, lined up the post reticle and squeezed off the shot. The deer dropped in its tracks.


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Nakihunter
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Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 588
Loc: New Zealand
Re: how do you prepare [Re: xausa]
      #93981 - 10/01/08 11:48 AM

The only competitive shooting I have done is at the local Deer Stalker club annual shoots & inter branch shoots. However I have been involved in university level sport.

The pressure I have felt when about to shoot an animal has been much higher. Most times I am relaxed & "cold" enough to calculate my shot. But there are some occasions when I have had my heart racing & hands shaking. This has never been the case at the range shoots. The greatest "pressure signs" are the butterflies & bats in my stomach which suddenly trun to pheasants after the shot. The pressure is even greater if the animal runs after the shot - "Oh no! have I lost it?" syndrome. The satisfaction when I find the animal drilled throuhg the heart or the shoulders is greater than a top place at the club shoot.

I have never shot at charging game or at dangerous game. But I have been charged by elephants on 5 or 6 occasions and once by a sloth bear with a cub. The pressure & excitement on those occasions was incredible. If I was hunting under those circumstances & needed to shoot, that would certainly be far greater pressure than when shooting at deer or non-DG.

I am currently reading Capstick (again). His DR shot at a charging lion that hits him & which he finally kills with a spear belonging to his tracker ....that must have been some pressure!

--------------------
Always shoot through the target & not just at it.


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xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: how do you prepare [Re: Nakihunter]
      #93994 - 10/01/08 03:54 PM

Everybody reacts to pressure differently. My reaction to dangerous game is to go into "automatic" mode. The shakes come after it's all over. When I shot my first elephant, I suddenly reminded myself that I needed to reload after the elephant was down. I opened the bolt, only to find my rifle fully loaded. Puzzled, I looked down at the four fired shells on the ground, and only then came to the realization that I had re [/list] loaded automatically without even being aware of it. When I was shooting, it was as though everything was in slow motion, and I had no recollection of the noise of the rounds gong off.

This didn't happen on later occasions when I shot elephant.

Pressure at a club shoot is one thing. Pressure at the National Matches, which I have attended probably 30 times is something else. The greatest pressure arises at the end of a string when shooting a good score. I once shot a 200-18X on the 600 yard reduced target at 100 yards, with the X ring only 3/4" in diameter. By the last shot I was so pumped up, I am surprised I even hit the target, but the last shot was a "10".


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Nakihunter
.375 member


Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 588
Loc: New Zealand
Re: how do you prepare [Re: xausa]
      #94001 - 10/01/08 07:00 PM

Fair comment. I hope I get to shoot a buffalo & leopard in Africa & a brown bear in Alaska.

--------------------
Always shoot through the target & not just at it.


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k80
.333 member


Reged: 07/05/04
Posts: 314
Loc: San Antonio ,Texas, U.S.A.
Re: how do you prepare [Re: Nakihunter]
      #94429 - 17/01/08 12:45 AM

One of the reasons I ask this question
was to find a cross section of practice routines.
I have been a competitive shooter in several
different disciplines. The best practice for
me has been some way to put pressure on by
shooting against someone of my skill level
or higher. The practice that regiments certain
shoots , the ones that you make as a confidence
builder and the ones you struggle with to develop
your skills is also effective for me. Good technique,
safe gun handling, should be also part of any
practice. Setting up a video of your session
can often tell you volumes. If you shoot in a vest
wear it, same glasses etc. Always end a session
on a positive effort.


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