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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
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Most Common Calibers, Vintage Hammerless Doubles???
      #92471 - 23/12/07 11:24 AM

I was reviewing several Double guns at various websites when it occurred to me--

How many vintage prewar hammerless Webley doubles are out there and what was their most common caliber?? Big Doubles or smaller calibers? Searched "Webley" posts and didn't find a clear answer.

I am interested particularly in the Webley output of Doubles and more specifically in 450/400-- but if the 450,470, etc, calibers had twice the numbers made then more may be encountered at a ?"better" price(guess I'm dreamin').

400 NE or anyone--Thanks much for any/all info!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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500Nitro
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Re: Most Common Calibers, Vintage Hammerless Doubles??? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #92473 - 23/12/07 11:45 AM


Firstly, your dreaming !!!


Secondly, IF you lump Webley Screw Grips and Webley PHV 1's together under the Webley banner, then I would guess 470 NE OR 450/400 as the 2 most popular.

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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
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Re: Most Common Calibers, Vintage Hammerless Doubles??? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #92499 - 24/12/07 01:00 AM

Further curious historical questions,if someone could enlighten the ignorant(me!)-


What was the relative quantity of Webley screw actions vs the PHV 1's? I assume the screw actions were on the high end Doubles-

From Webley's numbering system, 10000 to 14,000(right?,wrong?) can we assume that about 4000 Doubles were made?

Webley's records are now gone or misplaced?

What is the least common DG Double caliber you will encounter from Webley? Most Common?

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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500Nitro
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Re: Most Common Calibers, Vintage Hammerless Doubles??? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #92500 - 24/12/07 01:12 AM



"What is the least common DG Double caliber you will encounter from Webley?

I'd hazzard a guess at 475 NE or maybe 476.

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hoppdoc
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Re: Most Common Calibers, Vintage Hammerless Doubles??? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #92503 - 24/12/07 02:09 AM

Sorry but more ignorant questions--

What were Webleys (?)3 hammerless Double models and the most common one encountered? Whatare the particulars on their high end boxlock model vs lower priced Doubles?

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NE450No2
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Re: Most Common Calibers, Vintage Hammerless Doubles??? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #92512 - 24/12/07 03:29 AM

400 NE was at the range with me yesterday. He is away from home now and might not have access to a computer.
He is on a "Road Trip".

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Anonymous
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Re: Most Common Calibers, Vintage Hammerless Doubles??? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #92536 - 24/12/07 11:56 AM

Quote:

How many vintage prewar hammerless Webley doubles are out there and what was their most common caliber?? Big Doubles or smaller calibers?



Larger calibres were the most popular for double rifles of that period.



I am interested particularly in the Webley output of Doubles and more specifically in 450/400-- but if the 450,470, etc, calibers had twice the numbers made then more may be encountered at a ?"better" price(guess I'm dreamin').



Even if they made more guns in those calibres, it would not make them less expensive. In fact just the opposite, due to the fact that the two you mentioned are the most popular.


Webley built alot of doubles for the trade especially for the "bought in" side of things. I think output was around 14,000 to 15,000 guns prior to WW1.

There’s a couple of different actions to note, the PHV-1 and the A&WC. The quick tell is the dolls head which on the PHV-1 is shaped like a spade, The A&WC is shaped like a spade but with the point clipped off and the lever round indexed to it. Both are considered screw grips in the “trade”, however, Webley refered to one as a screw grip and one as a 3rd bite, the PHV-1 being the later. The A&WC long bar with intercepting sears is possibly the best built action for the rigors of double rifles. Webley built for many firms, the gun makers gunmaker.

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400NitroExpress
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Re: Most Common Calibers, Vintage Hammerless Doubles??? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #92639 - 26/12/07 05:11 AM

Quote:

I was reviewing several Double guns at various websites when it occurred to me--

How many vintage prewar hammerless Webley doubles are out there and what was their most common caliber?? Big Doubles or smaller calibers? Searched "Webley" posts and didn't find a clear answer.

I am interested particularly in the Webley output of Doubles and more specifically in 450/400-- but if the 450,470, etc, calibers had twice the numbers made then more may be encountered at a ?"better" price(guess I'm dreamin').

400 NE or anyone--Thanks much for any/all info!!



Doc:

I'm not sure how many pre-war hammerless Webley DRs are out there. Webley's rifle records don't survive, which is part of the reason that I began trying to reconstruct a table some years ago, and there are some holes...

First off, Webley's rifles were numbered separately from their other production. Yes, very roughly 10,000 to 14,000 SN range 1900 to 1927, or a total of 4000 rifles during that period. You need to keep in mind though that this INCLUDES Webley's Model 1897 and 1902 falling block single shots, and other rifles as well, although production of those models doesn't seem to have lasted very long. Bizarre that the latest Webley built DR I've ever found is late 1927, in the high 13,XXX range. I'm not saying that later guns don't exist but, if they do, they're very, very rare.

Webley made double rifles on five dedicated double rifle (not shotgun) actions - HC (Hammer Cordite, available with either top lever or Jones UL); PHV-2 ("Plain model" Hammer, with either top lever or Jones UL); PHV-1 ("plain" boxlock - but because the overwhelming majority of Webley's production was for others, some PHV-1s ended up as some of their fanciest guns); A & W C (typically a higher grade boxlock model, but not always); W & R C (Webley's sidelock model).

All of these can be found in all grades, as they built what was ordered. Excluding handgun production, Webley stated that 90% of their guns ended up with someone else's name on them. For sure this is true of the double rifles. Of the fifty odd Webley double rifles I have written notes on, only four bear Webley's name. Even though I don't have my notes with me, I can remember what they are: PHV-1s all, in .250 Savage, .280 Rimless, and two .450/.400 3 1/4" Nitros. As for the most common nitro caliber, .450/.400 hands down, no contest. Small and medium bores are more common than you might think.

Yes, a few years ago the .400s were numerous enough that they could be had for less money. The market has since soaked up the nice ones and they're very difficult to find. When they do turn up, they aren't cheap anymore.

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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