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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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tophet1
.400 member


Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Musgrave Rifles
      #90476 - 04/12/07 06:51 AM

Our family hunt plans for South Africa are progressing well with replies to our initial enquiries being received, but follow up needed as not much else has happened. They must all still be hunting over there.

One thing we may have to do is borrow rifles in RSA as we will be travelling across different countries and the paper work would be a nightmare.

I am familiar with musgrave single shot target actions but I beleive the Musgrave hunting rifle actions are basically a Mauser '98 derivative. Is this true ? Is there much of a difference in the smaller calibres (say .308) than with an ex-mil '98 ?

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Nakihunter
.375 member


Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 588
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Musgrave Rifles [Re: tophet1]
      #90492 - 04/12/07 10:38 AM

What are the rules about borrowing rifles in South africa? I met a PH in British Columbia in Sept while Bear hunting & he said that the rules have become a bit silly & borrowing an outfitter's rifle can be tricky! I find this very confusing. If he is a PH, he should know or is he full of BS?

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Always shoot through the target & not just at it.

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: Musgrave Rifles [Re: Nakihunter]
      #90499 - 04/12/07 12:29 PM

I and my wife toured the Musgrave Mauser plant in Bloemfontein, OVS in 1988. Most of the guns I saw on the line were built on scrubbed 98 Mauser actions probably of K98k ancestry. Frankly, I liked them. They were utilitarian "users", a bit crude, but I liked the stock design and barrel configuration, etc.

Musgrave also had an action of their own design but I do not remember whether they produced or sold many of them. Kings Sports in Durban and a gunshop in Maritzburg {was that also a Kings?? Can't remember.} had a bunch of the Musgrave 98's for sale and I handled a few. They were cheaply priced.

I also was allowed to enter the engraving room where an Austrian engraver was working on some guns. I do not remember the fellows name.

Elsewhere there were various projects going on; custom work on some Lees, other general gunsmithing.

As I understand it, Musgrave is defunct. Too bad, I thought the rifles had potential, and I'd like to think the South Africans could support such a business. Lots of changes over there since I lived there.

Die Boer'n se Roer.

Sy Roer weg!!

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: Musgrave Rifles [Re: 9.3x57]
      #90527 - 04/12/07 05:13 PM

I have been assured by two operators that there are firearms I can either borrow or rent. I don't know what the law over there is. I will have to check. I guess if you are licensed, in the middle of nowhere and on private property you can.

I would love to take my own rifles but country hopping would be a nightmare.

Sabi rifles seem to have filled the gap with custom rifles in RSA and I know Lyttleton(?)make barrels among other things.

I just wanted to make sure I had the correct idea of what the Musgrave hunting rifles were and thx to 9ThreeXFifty7 for confirming that.

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Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3556
Loc: Colorado
Re: Musgrave Rifles [Re: tophet1]
      #139937 - 03/08/09 02:21 AM

Two Musgraves just showed up on gunsinternational

http://www.gunsinternational.com/Musgrav...un_id=100096124

http://www.gunsinternational.com/S-Afric...un_id=100096125

Pretty cheap pricing I would think...

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He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: Musgrave Rifles [Re: Huvius]
      #139972 - 03/08/09 09:46 PM

Well this is a resurection of an old thread. Thank you for posting those pictures.

I have in fact been to RSA twice since that last post and can state that the one Musgrave rifle I saw had a commercial style reciever, Remington style Cocking piece on a Mauser 98 bolt body.

I also now beleive their are many versions/varieties of Musgrave rifles.

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andrevannibos
.224 member


Reged: 22/11/07
Posts: 22
Loc: North West Province South Afri...
Re: Musgrave Rifles [Re: tophet1]
      #140074 - 05/08/09 09:08 PM

Tophet 1
Musgrave did indeed make a few models of K98 style actions, as well as using old Mauser actions. One of their best actions that they used to manufacture themselves were the RSA action. Initially this action was only used in .308 target rifles as a single shot, but later on also with a magazine. These were superbly accurate rifles. They also made a ambidextrous .22 rifle and a couple of very well priced shotguns. I need to note that they also had their own custom workshop, and made their own barrels by the button method.

When Musgrave sadly closed their doors, a company called Vector took over much of their tooling.

As already stated, these were work mans rifles with little in the way of frills and fuss. If you are looking for Musgrave rifles, have a look at Classic Arms website (SA Website) They might have one or two in the safe.
Bosgroete

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Andre

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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: Musgrave Rifles [Re: andrevannibos]
      #140081 - 05/08/09 10:56 PM

Quote:

I need to note that they also had their own custom workshop, and made their own barrels by the button method.



I watched the rifling process while I was there. Very interesting.

Also, the custom shop included work done by an Austrian engraver. We got to watch him for a while, too.

Andre; is the Vector operation on the grounds of the old Musgrave plant? What has become of the old factory?

Berggroete!

Rod.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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andrevannibos
.224 member


Reged: 22/11/07
Posts: 22
Loc: North West Province South Afri...
Re: Musgrave Rifles [Re: 9.3x57]
      #140201 - 08/08/09 05:30 AM

Hi Rod
No, unfortunately it seem to have moved from Bloemfontein to Centurion, between Pretoria and Johannesburg, South Africa. I cannot find any info on the old factory, and it is probably used for some other industry at this stage.
Vector is part of the Denel group at this stage, and it seems as though they specialise in military and police weaponry. We still have some very good custom rifle builders in SA, if you would like, I will send you a list of the best ones!?

Bosgroete

--------------------
Andre

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: Musgrave Rifles [Re: andrevannibos]
      #140214 - 08/08/09 11:17 AM

Thanks Andre. Post a list on the forum. I'm sure lots of fellows would like to see who's who.

I liked the Musgraves. The 98's were solid-looking rifles.

IIRC, they also had a proprietary .375 caliber, yes? My memory is stretching a bit, but I seem to remember a .375 based on the .358 Norma Mag case...I think. Anybody verify?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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andrevannibos
.224 member


Reged: 22/11/07
Posts: 22
Loc: North West Province South Afri...
Re: Musgrave Rifles [Re: 9.3x57]
      #140608 - 15/08/09 05:46 AM

Hi all
A short list of gunsmiths and makers in South Africa; By no means complete!!!

J&J Wapens
Bloemfontein Custom rifles
GS custom
The Gun Doctor
Gerrie Coetzee vuurwapens
The Gun Master
Arms cc
Craig Klintworth Guns and rifles
Magnum arms
Dave Sheer
Rescomp Technologies
Truvello Manufacturers
Harrison Brothers.

Magnum arms had a proprietary list of cartridges named the Sabi range, for which they also created beautiful working rifles. Under those was a .375/9.5mm cartridge. I have no idea if they still have these cartridges. Give them a buzz or a mail to confirm!

Bosgroete
Andre

--------------------
Andre

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