Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***

Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all)
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: NitroX]
      #90138 - 30/11/07 12:54 PM

Quote:

I think Mehul is right, a .303 would have been nice too.

Couple things. I agree. A .303 would be pretty neat. In fact, tho, in EAA's defence, IIRC they catalogued a 7.62x54R for a while tho I don't think they ever sold them, and maybe never made them? I suspect though that some were made and maybe sold over in Russia. However, Mehul, on a trivial point, the .303 Wolf imports is, I think, actually made in Serbia. Good stuff though, just the same. I shoot lots of it in 6.5x55 and 8x57.

However I am not impressed by how many guys want to immediately "upgrade" them by re-chambering them to something more powerful. This sounds like asking for trouble to me.




This last bit kind of confuses me, too. I mean, the guns were made in .45-70 {Nitro's pseudo-big-bore. ...I love it...I love the .45-70, too, and don't take it personally. I think of my .45-70 high pressure loads as the "Assault Weapon Loadings" of the .45-70 so I don't run afoul of NitroX... }

Anyway, if the dang gun is made in .45-70, .9.3x74R, .30-06 and 7x57R, why rebore/chamber to some other? I don't know, to each his own, but it confuses me, too... The 9.3x74R is nothing to sneeze at.

As for the reference to Remington trolls. I hope there is a chubby, fat-faced, dirt-under-the-talons troglodyte on the Remington payroll sitting here reading this as I type. Get the "big bore" combo and double Baikals back in the lineup, clean up any warts {read: REGULATION PROBLEMS} you find, and I near double guarantee you that you will sell a boatload of them. And please, keep the Good'Ole'Boy Factor to a minimum...

They are great guns for the quid.


--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: 9.3x57]
      #90213 - 01/12/07 02:49 AM

9ThreeXFifty7,

If Remington were to offer the 7.62x54R I would buy that as ammo would be cheap - there are huge numbers of $ 100 Mosins in use in Wisconsin, Indiana etc and this would be in keeping with the Baikal's status as a low price using gun. The 9.3x74R is a fine cartridge, no doubt, but then it suggests champagne class, not quite the cheap beer budget that, I think, most people would want to address with this rifle whenever/if it comes out.

In any case, yes, if Remington have an ear to the ground instead of having their collective heads buried there, they would know how much interest there really is in buying these rifles. Several forums have gotten tired of speculating on when or whether they would launch these rifles - since they do seem to have found time to launch them on sale in the UK, I hope that we would get them here soon enough. What I cannot understand, though, is their strategy in doing what theya re doing - the US is the world's largest market for guns and ammunition. You would think that they would try to address this first - somehow, they seem otherwise inclined.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #90330 - 02/12/07 08:32 AM

Quote:

9ThreeXFifty7,

If Remington were to offer the 7.62x54R I would buy that as ammo would be cheap




Same here.

Really, I can hardly think of a better double/combo cartridge than the 7.62x54R. Rimmed already, great ballistics, a vast amount and variety of loads available. I wonder though, as there are those fellows who say shooting Nosler Partitions and Swift A-Frames is a no-no out of double guns due to the increased resistance the partition offers the barrel steel. Many 7.62x54R bullets use steel or other hard cores with a skin of lead between the core material and the jacket. A problem for a double? I don't know. Might be depending on groove depth.

My hope when Remington took over the sale of the guns was that their engineers might spend a wee bit of time figuring out a regulation method that would be easy to incorporate into production, thereby eliminating that bug-bear from the design which is to say adding an excellent feature to the gun. The guns are "almost" there in my opinion, and just a little more attention would make them quite amazing for the price. Incidently, I shot quite a variety of loads thru my .30-06 and had zero pressure problems with it that I could determine.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: 9.3x57]
      #90332 - 02/12/07 08:49 AM

A .30-40 Krag would be nice!

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: CptCurl]
      #90393 - 03/12/07 05:42 AM

$1,000 US - hmmm - few more months and that might only be $800.00 cdn. Cool!
: Last pole of 2003 - 43% of the US baby boomers planned on funding their retirement with a law suit.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Alberta
.275 member


Reged: 03/12/07
Posts: 66
Loc: Canada
Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: DarylS]
      #90420 - 03/12/07 12:18 PM

Hey, I am that "Canadian guy" with the springy sxs Baikal in 30-06. My rifle also had an issue with the safety not working correctly. I sent it back, and haven't heard anything about it since. I will be phoning the Canadian importer in Toronto this week, maybe next, no big hurry. The store I bought it at sent it to them a year ago!LOL To be honest I wanted to wait quite a while before getting a new one just to see if any one else is having problems.

So far that was the *only* rifle I have heard of (from an owner) that had any problems what so ever. There was a few of them sold here and I know one guy was really happy with his. I have never ever heard of a problem with a O/U, which have been produced for quite a long time. I have also NEVER had a problem with any Baikal I have ever owned (other than the sxs) so lets be clear on that.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: Alberta]
      #90423 - 03/12/07 01:05 PM

Quote:

Hey, I am that "Canadian guy" with the springy sxs Baikal in 30-06.




What is a "springy" action?

What happened?

Cases stretch and separate?

Please advise...

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
peter
removed


Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: 9.3x57]
      #90442 - 03/12/07 07:23 PM

hi alberta

wellcome to the site, it is good to have the one that is in the know about the bad baikal S&S rifle.
so we can get the right info instead of rumors and speculation.

again wellcome to the site.

peter


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Alberta
.275 member


Reged: 03/12/07
Posts: 66
Loc: Canada
Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: peter]
      #90471 - 04/12/07 06:21 AM

Here is a copy/paste of my range time with the Baikal. Please take note that I have never owned a double rife before, some of my terminology and thinking may be incorrect.




Well, I shot it. I put about 60 rounds through it today. I did all my shooting at 50 yards, standing up and resting my for end hand on a sand bag. I shot 4 shot groups, Right,Left, Right Left bbls without letting bbls cool.

First thing I shot was some very light 150g loads (55g H4350 and a Ballistic tip)that I had made up a year ago. My fist group was not so good my second one was the best of the day, about 1.5". The gun actually regulated well with those loads. Both bbls went to about the same horizontal area but there was a bit of vertical spread. The average group was about 3" and about a foot left of center.

Then I shot some factory Winchester 165g Power Points. This is where things went for s**t. After firing the first two shots I had a hard time pushing the lever over to open the action. I noticed that the primer from the left bbl had quite a big pucker mark where it had flowed into the firing pin hole. The mark is not just around the firing pin but actually raised into the hole. It seems the pins do not remain out after firing, they pop out then go back in. This allows the primer to flow into the hole. I fired to more shots and again had a hard time opening the action. The group was well regulated, the left bbl slightly to the left and the right a little to the right. The group was about 3".

I had a box of Winchester 180g Power Points so I shot those. I fired 2 shots and when I went to open the gun I had a hard time moving the lever. I looked at the Face and saw that the bbls had been pushed off face. I opened the gun and saw the primer pucker mark again. I shot one shot through the Crony, it was 2730 from the 23.5" bbl. I stopped shooting factory ammo. It is too hot for this gun, not that the pressure is to high from the factory loads just that the gun cant handle the regular pressure from the 30-06 . I seriously doubt that the gun would last long shooting loads of normal pressure. I guess it would shoot off face very quickly. I also noticed that the safety would not move to the safe position if the right bbl was uncooked. To put it on safe I had to push the right trigger forward then the safety switch would slide. I know for sure that it worked fine the day before. ARGHH

I then shot a load of 53g IMR 4350 with a 165g Hornady. I had the OAL at 3.210 It seems this gun does not have much free bore. The gun shot a 3.5" group again regulated well. The right bbl printed over the left, making a square. The gun opened normally.

I shot 55g load with the Hornady. It made a nice 1.75" group except for a high flier from the right bbl opening the group to 4" Gun opened normally.

Next was a 57g load. The left bbl shot left and the right right. The group was a 5" square. The qun did not open easily but was not as bad as the factory loads. But still too much pressure!!

I then went home and made up a bunch of 53g loads with the 165g Hornady since it worked ok. I wanted to adjust the jack screw so I turned it 5 clicks towards the butt. It crossed the bullets by 4.75" but at least they were on the same horizontal plane. I began to turn the jack screw back to where it was set before. I moved it a few clicks at a time then shot, then moved it some more. The left bbl did not move much, an inch or two but the right would really move around. I brought both bbls back together so they printed on top of each other again. The left bbl seemed to move quite predictably but the right did not do so well. I quite often had a high flier. BTW the right bbl is the floating bbl and the left is the fixed bbl.

I then shot some light 180g loads, 49g IMR 4350 with a Hornady Interlock BT. I measured this at 2360 FPS These bullets crossed by 6" Normally a heavy bullet will shoot wide of each other, and I saw it happen with the 2 180g factory loads I shot. But due to the low velocity and light recoil these bullets crossed. I adjusted the jack screw, turning it towards the muzzle to bring these bullets together. I ran out of shots and they were crossing but only by 2" Also all the bullets were on the same horizontal plane except one high flier from the right bbl again.

I shot some 180g Hornadys with 51gof IMR4350 at 2430FPS. These bullets regulated perfectly with were I last left the jack screw set . The increased recoil stopped then from crossing like the last load did. Also there was always one high flier from the right bbl to spoil each group. Without that right bbl flier I had 3 shots into an inch, but some times that right bbl (it would be the first shot one time then the second one the next) would print high and opened the groups to 2 or 3"




-So here is what I know. This gun cannot handle factory 30-06 pressure. I don't believe the loads to be over spec pressure I just think the gun cannot handle it. Mid range hand loads only.

-There is something wrong with the safety now, probably needs to get looked at.

-The jack screw works but is quite touchy. Looking at the end bbl band, there is a lot of room left to move the Right bbl towards the left, meaning that I could probably get 200g bullets to regulate (Heavy bullets shoot wide causing you to bring the bbls closer together) To bad I wont be able to load the 200g up to a reasonable velocity.

-The Right floater bbl keeps shooting fliers high. There is room for the bbl to move side to side as the jack screw adjusts it. Unfortunately there is also some play up and down. I can actually see a little gap between the bbl band and the bbl right on the top side of the bbl. I would guess if I could tighten up the bbl band to close that gap and stop the bbl from moving up and down the high flier would go away.

-The gun shoots terribly to the left, I needed to bring the rear sight all the way over to the right to get it on the paper.


-Last but not least YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!! I don't think the 30-06 is a good Idea in this frame. Mine doesnt seem to be able to handle it. The 45-70 would be much better suited to this rifle.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Alberta
.275 member


Reged: 03/12/07
Posts: 66
Loc: Canada
Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: Alberta]
      #90475 - 04/12/07 06:42 AM

I would just like to clarify a few things
:the primer problem I was having...later after writing that I noticed the one fireing pin hole was greatly over sized causing the pucker.

:when I say "hard to open" I mean 2 thumbs required to get the lever to move when using factory rounds, at first i did not know if it was because it was new but when I clearly saw the BBL being pushed off face when holding the rifle up to the light I know what was going on. There was NO gas blowing and NO brass flowing! and yes I did keep shooting it with lesser hand loads because I have a crazy side to me.



I also spoke with Baikal Canada today and they were VERY good to me, helped me find out what the hold up was (store/Baikal communication snafu). Looks like I can get a new rifle if I so choose.
I don't know if I will or not....ma bey.

Edited by Alberta (04/12/07 06:52 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: Alberta]
      #90478 - 04/12/07 06:57 AM

Was this an EAA Biakal or the Remmy?
Could there be a difference in the actions after Remmy took over distributation?
Wouldn't you rather get your money back?

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Yogi000
.333 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 265
Loc: New York, USA
Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: AkMike]
      #90480 - 04/12/07 07:09 AM

Are these double rifles available yet in the states? Any idea of US prices. I just went to the Remington website and searched and found nothing about double rifles.

So you can get them in Canada now?

I be interested in one, any claibre but in 45-70 or bigger would be terrific.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Alberta
.275 member


Reged: 03/12/07
Posts: 66
Loc: Canada
Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: AkMike]
      #90481 - 04/12/07 07:15 AM

It was a Baikal 221, I don't remember it saying EAA and 100% for sure did not say Remington in it. It also would have been one of the very first sold in Canada.


As far as getting another one or not....hummmmm it was only 1000 bucks....worth a gamble on another????? Quite possibly actually.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39883
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: 9.3x57]
      #90517 - 04/12/07 02:56 PM

Quote:

This last bit kind of confuses me, too. I mean, the guns were made in .45-70 {Nitro's pseudo-big-bore. ...I love it...I love the .45-70, too, and don't take it personally. I think of my .45-70 high pressure loads as the "Assault Weapon Loadings" of the .45-70 so I don't run afoul of NitroX... }




Hey I'm not anti-45/70. A double in one would make a fine brush rifle or a medium game rifle. A par with a nice vintage BP or Nitro-for-black double rifle in .450.

I just don't see the sense in 'pushing' a modern cheaply made rifle into a NE powered type round if the manufacturers weren't game to do it themselves in the first place.

A Baikal s/s in say a .450 or .470 NE would outsell a .45/70 any day if they were willing to do it.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Alberta
.275 member


Reged: 03/12/07
Posts: 66
Loc: Canada
Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: NitroX]
      #90519 - 04/12/07 03:23 PM

Remember these rifles are mostly geared towards non(or beginner) double rifle aficionados. It is my personal guess that a 45-70 would be a top seller. Guys like me would eat it up, cheap and easy to buy brass bullets and factory ammo to get you started.


As far as simply rechambering to something with more power and shooting I don't know if it would work easily anyhow. There is very limited amount you can do with that jack screw. The floater bbl must always "chase" the fixed bbl when regulating. That means as recoil increases the whole gun will shoot more and more to the left. The rifle I had all ready had the rear sight all the way to the right (gun shot left) there was very little adjustment left. I am left handed, having the rear sight to the right was not a problem, a right hander would have had issues. A scope may solve that problem I guess??? I got the impression that the fixed bbl was not "angled" inwards enough, something I hope they addressed.

Edited by Alberta (04/12/07 03:35 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Fladude
.224 member


Reged: 21/11/07
Posts: 15
Loc: florida
Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: NitroX]
      #90524 - 04/12/07 04:33 PM

Quote:



A Baikal s/s in say a .450 or .470 NE would outsell a .45/70 any day if they were willing to do it.




Internationally maybe. In the US, anything that's a .45 has a large and hard core cult following. No one here cares what the manufacturers want. We will have high powered .45's and someone will make them. The people who make them will get the $$$.

As for Remington, I find it humorous that people are talking about it as some local good old boy company. Cerberus is the leading stock holder in Remington. It also owns Bushmaster and Chrysler and about 60 billion dollars worth of other companies around the world.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: NitroX]
      #90570 - 05/12/07 12:52 AM

Quote:

Hey I'm not anti-45/70. A double in one would make a fine brush rifle or a medium game rifle. A par with a nice vintage BP or Nitro-for-black double rifle in .450.

I just don't see the sense in 'pushing' a modern cheaply made rifle into a NE powered type round if the manufacturers weren't game to do it themselves in the first place.




Nitro, I was kidding. I understand your concern about the seemingly common obsession with hotrodding the .45-70 and then proclaiming it the equal of the .458 WM, etc. I agree with you. I am a big fan of the .45-70, particularly in the accurate and handy Marlin, a gun that can stand significantly heavier loads than the old Springfield Tradoor, etc. But I'm not going to proclaim my rifle a .458 Winchester Mag Lever Gun, either and I get a chuckle when I read others doing so.

As for selling more .450's than .45-70's, I'm not so sure. You might have a good point in Australia where they could serve a practical purpose, but I don't think any side-by-side rifle is going to be a BIG seller anywhere, and the .416+ heavy calibers are not really big sellers even in bolt guns. "Classic cordite" isn't going to set any sales records in any guns and I suspect such shells would have a tough run for their money stacked up against the .45-70 in a race in the USA. Big talk always accompanies the heavy calibers by aficionados of them, but as for actually selling them, well, that is a tough job. When I was working in retail, we sold 4000+ guns per year and I considered the .416+ calibers to be "loss leaders" of a sort, making big headlines, attracting many bwana-wanna-be's, but when push came to shove on the sales floor, we sold 100 or more "less powerful" guns {.338, .300, etc} for every one of the .416+ biggies. For simple reasons; A guy could use the smaller bores whereas he could look at and pretend with the big ones. The guy may have come in to the shop to handle a .458, but he went home with a .338. And it happened all the time.

Before I get swamped with howls from the defenders of big-bores, I'm not condemning the ownership or use of them in any way, but I AM stating that from a marketing standpoint, the heavies are tough to send out the door. They are a very slim slice of the gun pie. Sure, there are shops where they are sold, there are dealers that sell them. But for a company to weigh the pretty-popular .45-70 against the not-very-popular .450 NE, and tool up to produce the .450 would be a difficult decision to make and if I was on the marketing board I'd vote .45-70 all the way.

I still think the heavies are great marketing tools for gun companies, but as for mass appeal and big money being made from them? Watch the next economic slowdown. They'll be the first ones to disappear from the catalogues. If there is little market for the .45-70 in the Baikal sxs, I doubt there's a market at all for the .450 NE.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: Fladude]
      #90606 - 05/12/07 06:38 AM

Quote:


As for Remington, I find it humorous that people are talking about it as some local good old boy company. Cerberus is the leading stock holder in Remington. It also owns Bushmaster and Chrysler and about 60 billion dollars worth of other companies around the world.




If Cerberus have any brains whatsoever, they would look at marketing what hunters have an interest in buying instead of dragging their feet over something that they have been talking about for more than two years now.

its not as if big companies have never screwed up. If Remington and Chrysler were doing well, they would never have gotten sold in the first place.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #90611 - 05/12/07 06:41 AM



Ah, mehulkamdar, well said.

But Big Companies know what they are doing !!!!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
englishupland
.224 member


Reged: 21/12/07
Posts: 37
Loc: MI
Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: NitroX]
      #94407 - 16/01/08 05:26 PM

Any idea where I can get one in the US?? Havnt seen the SXS on any auctions...Dealers dont have any.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all)



Extra information
0 registered and 446 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  CptCurl 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 9908

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved