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Hunting >> Hunting in Australia, NZ & the South Pacific
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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Which is tougher the Asiatic or cape buffalo! [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #89103 - 16/11/07 01:59 PM

Quote:

not all tamed buffalo came from one domestication event


Since water buffalo have been domesticated over several thousand years in India and South-east Asia, this is pretty obvious really!

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Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Which is tougher the Asiatic or cape buffalo! [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #89106 - 16/11/07 03:43 PM



Alan

Have seen quite a few Albino and Pale Buffalo and
was with a mate who shot an Albino bull while
I shot the other bull.

The Ivory Horns are great to look at.

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia
Re: Which is tougher the Asiatic or cape buffalo! [Re: Marrakai]
      #89110 - 16/11/07 05:10 PM

Probably the best way to describe the buffalo is FERAL ASIAN BUFFALO,simular to the camel,donkey,goat,cattle and horses.
They without exception were brought to Australia as domestic animals that now run wild in different parts of Australia.
Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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Nakihunter
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Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 588
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Which is tougher the Asiatic or cape buffalo! [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #89112 - 16/11/07 08:01 PM

This thread has come back to the direction that was originally intended.

Now the debate can be split into 2 issues

1 Is the Australian Water buffalo (the feral animal & we could include the Brazilian ones as well) as tough as the Africal Buffalo - in terms of ability to soak up lead & difficulty to put down even with a good shot?
2 Is the Asian WILD Buffalo as dangerous or more dangerous than the African Buffalo? (I am assuming that the feral bufafalo is not considered a particularly dangerous animal though it might charge on occasion & probably has killed some people).

Regarding the first question - There are many on this forum who have hunted & shot both animals. Their answers to this specific question would be really interesting.

The second is a hypothetical question as there are very few Asian WILD buffalo around to do a valid comparison. I believe that in today's environment, the African buffalo has the vote for the number of people it hurts - there are simply much more African buffalos around. Both animals are known to be fearless, cunning, capable of ambushing their adversary, attacking without provocation and being utterly terrifying in a charge. At over 6 feet tall & over 1200kgs in weight, the Asian WILD buffalo would be more intimidating (not that the African buffalo is not intimidating). The African animal is quicker on dry land while the Asian WILD buffalo is found more commonly in swamps & hence a bit slower. But the stories of the WILD buffalo charging riding elephants in Kaziranga National Park in Assam, India are really scary. That could be among our very few hopes of experiencing an encounter with this awsome WILD animal.

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Always shoot through the target & not just at it.

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hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Which is tougher the Asiatic or cape buffalo! [Re: Nakihunter]
      #89119 - 16/11/07 11:36 PM

I have hunted neither but it sounds like it kinda comes down to the animal with the nastiest attitude at the moment.If you run into that animal you don't just walk up and shoot it but have excitement and real danger present!!

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An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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Bakes
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Reged: 31/01/03
Posts: 589
Loc: QLD
Re: Which is tougher the Asiatic or cape buffalo! [Re: hoppdoc]
      #89122 - 16/11/07 11:49 PM

Since were talking Buff, heres my first bull.


And some taken by Gary Hall


And how they got this bugger to stand still on a table has me buggered


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DDouble
.300 member


Reged: 17/02/06
Posts: 127
Loc: Brazil
Re: Which is tougher the Asiatic or cape buffalo! [Re: Bakes]
      #89167 - 17/11/07 02:16 PM

Marrakai, several things that were obvious ended up proved to be wrong. This one is proved by DNA analysis and probably this is just the start of studies that could retrace all these populations (and crossings).

Nakihunter, I have hunted both (but more times de Asiatic buff) and I think, like Bell used to say, that it is an easy and uneventfull hunt most of the times. Bell's said he never had a problem with buffalo, despite having shot around a thousand of them with light calibers such as .256. Usually lack of skill, big mistakes or a very unluky day will make someting bad happens.

I belive it is much more a specific situation, a wounded animal, a specific type of nasty terrain, or a little problem with the gun that can bring tragedy.

I have hunted buff with a recurve bow many, many times and we chased them into the jungle, pressuring them to stop, trying to find the bull withing the herd (usually they stay in the back protecting the cows and calves)!!! And despite all of that utterly fearless (stupid would be a more fair description) behaviour on our part, we had very few close calls. Most of them were just a matter of some fast climbing. The one more dangerous charge was the only ay we took a .375HH and our gest/hunter shot the bull on the hand...

Dante

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Ddouble

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SGraves155
.224 member


Reged: 07/11/06
Posts: 15
Loc: NW Arkansas
Re: Which is tougher the Asiatic or cape buffalo! [Re: DDouble]
      #94024 - 11/01/08 08:38 AM

IMO, since the cape buffalo has never been domesticated to any significant degree, it is therefore probably wilder and more dangerous than water buffalos.

The Asian swamp buffalo in Australia ia a wild(or feral if you will) and agile animal, capable of soaking up much lead, but still capable of being rounded up and domesticated. IMO, he is as much fun to hunt as the cape buffalo, and just as tough, and maybe tougher, physically.

The feral River buffalo (milk buffalo) of Europe and South America can be somewhat less muscular and less agile and less wild than the others, but can still be quite wild and dangerous. It is not generally as physically impressive as the others. The chromosome count is different between the River and the Swamp types. There are many different breeds of milk buffalo.

There are plenty of domestic cattle that are wild as march-hares, and some that will permanently turn out one's lights. I believe that the scrub-bulls of Australia, Texas, and South America have similiar reputations in this regard.

FWIW Chromosome Counts (2n)
Domestic cattle and American bison= 60
Cape buffalo= 52
Swamp buffalo=48
River buffalo=50
Gaur=58

--------------------
Steve

Edited by SGraves155 (11/01/08 08:44 AM)

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reflex264
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Reged: 20/01/08
Posts: 50
Loc: TN
Re: Which is tougher the Asiatic or cape buffalo! [Re: SGraves155]
      #94793 - 20/01/08 03:14 PM

I recently watched a video in Africa of children riding on cape buffalo which until that time I believed were never domesticated. I have some hunting footage of cape buffalo and water buffalo in which both animals soak up lots of lead. One of the toughest was a asiatic water buffalo that took 6 solid hits from a .470 and just kept acting like he wasn't hit. One of my cape buff videos shows a charge in which the buff is shot 6 times as well with a shot through the eye ending the matter. I listened to a "expert" that owns buffalo from all species and sub-species explain the differences in the water buffalo. He describes the swept horn such as is commonly seen in Austrailia as the asiatic water buffalo. A brown colored variation with horns that dip then turn up as the river buff or buffalipso and a black buffalo with horns like a cape buff except they don't have a boss as the island buff. There is a gent that lives about 20 miles from here that collects buff species. He has asiatic, gaur, buffalipso and cape buff. As big as the gaur are he has a bull that from what I was told is a asiatic that is well over 6' high at the shoulder and weighs nearly 3000lbs. He has bred some more bulls in the last few years from this bull and the off spring are huge within 3 years. reflex264

one of the off spring of the monster bull


these are in Florida
these were described as island buff

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