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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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AzGuy
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Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 388
Loc: Prescott, Arizona, USA
Largest caliber for sleved 410
      #87501 - 21/10/07 09:45 AM

What is the largest caliber/cartirdige that could be done in a sleved 410 shotgun conversion? Any experience with this? What cartridge would you suggest? Any guesses at the cost (not counting the 410 donor) of such a project? Thanks

PS. Just looking for a small caliber plinking DR

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Hike the Grand Canyon, you will never be the same!

Edited by AzGuy (21/10/07 09:47 AM)

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Otto
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Re: Largest caliber for sleved 410 [Re: AzGuy]
      #87525 - 21/10/07 11:07 PM

Understand that I've not yet done this, but may in the future. A neat conversion that would be fairly easy would be a 22 WMR. The idea is to use a liner and secure it in each 410 barrel so that it allows existing firing pin to hit the rim and existing extractor to catch the rim. Counterboring at the breech to a larger diameter is likely required. At the same time, the liners would need to be parellel so that they would regulate. This would require the liners to be closer to the center at the breech and to the outside of the barrels at the muzzles. Support bushings at each end and a couple mid barrel would be necessary, and keep added weight to a minimum. The biggest issue for me is finding a 410 double I'm willing to modify. As we all know, nice ones are spendy.

Otto

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Largest caliber for sleved 410 [Re: Otto]
      #87527 - 21/10/07 11:26 PM

Of course it's going to depend on the specific .410 action you use. Some have Purdey bolts and a third fastener, so ought to be pretty strong lockup. Still might not be a lot of beef in the action itself, though.

I own and have owned a number of small bore double rifles, and from my observation, the petite ones are on 28 ga. frames. An example is my Auguste Francotte 9x57R sidelock ejector.

The frame on that rifle matched the dimensions of a 28 ga. J.P. Sauer I used to own, including the firing pin spacing.

On a smaller .410 action I would limit pressures to something like .32-40, .30-30 or the like. You would have to measure the firing pin spacing to see if that limits the size of the cartridge head you are considering.

Curl

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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Bramble
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Reged: 29/07/06
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Re: Largest caliber for sleved 410 [Re: CptCurl]
      #87543 - 22/10/07 03:27 AM

I like the idea of .38spec/357 mag or .22 Hornet

Cost ?? depends on how much you can do yourself.

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peter
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Re: Largest caliber for sleved 410 [Re: Bramble]
      #87547 - 22/10/07 04:21 AM

30-30 or the 6 x 70r would be my choise

peter

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empirevr
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Reged: 03/09/06
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Re: Largest caliber for sleved 410 [Re: peter]
      #87563 - 22/10/07 08:03 AM

One chap is selling a 410 that was previously a double rifle....

I guess it must have been a 450 bpe???-sleeved to smooth?

Ben

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DarylS
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Re: Largest caliber for sleved 410 [Re: empirevr]
      #87616 - 23/10/07 03:06 AM

The firing pins would have to be bushed and replaced if chambering to anything of more pressure than a rimfire. I would stay away from anything over about 25,000CUP or PSI, which is RF pressure, btw. Of course, the breech thrust from the rimfires is much less due to diameter. European .22 Hornet ammo would be OK, I guess as it's loaded to lower pressure than US ammo. Still, it would need a small firing pin. In loading Hornet ammo in a rifle with a large pin, I was restricted to holding velocities under 2,300fps or primer flow would cause piercing due to the large pin and pin-hole.
: Even a .30/30 needs a standard small pin, not larger than 1/16" in diameter, due to it's 34,000CUP breech pressures.
: I would go the rimfire, myself, and a .22LR or .22WMR would suffice. This rifle, with iron sights would not do justice with the .17HMR, although the .17Mach2 would be a candidate.
: You could conceivably sleeve and chamber of a black powder ctg. such as the .32/40 or .38/55 and use black powder equivalent loads with the large pins. As long as pressure is held to under 30,000CUP/CIP or about 26,000PSI, this would be OK.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DUGABOY1
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Re: Largest caliber for sleved 410 [Re: Otto]
      #87621 - 23/10/07 07:01 AM

Quote:

Understand that I've not yet done this, but may in the future. A neat conversion that would be fairly easy would be a 22 WMR. The idea is to use a liner and secure it in each 410 barrel so that it allows existing firing pin to hit the rim and existing extractor to catch the rim. Counterboring at the breech to a larger diameter is likely required. At the same time, the liners would need to be parellel so that they would regulate. This would require the liners to be closer to the center at the breech and to the outside of the barrels at the muzzles. Support bushings at each end and a couple mid barrel would be necessary, and keep added weight to a minimum. The biggest issue for me is finding a 410 double I'm willing to modify. As we all know, nice ones are spendy.

Otto



Liners are not the way to go when converting any shotgun to double rifle! Addtionally, if the barrels were parallel,with the muzzles on the OUTSIDE of the shot barrels, it would regulate less! They certainly would not regulate, setup as you describe! Sleeving is the way to go with barrle blanks converging at the muzzles, and pointing low of line of sight!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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DUGABOY1
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Re: Largest caliber for sleved 410 [Re: AzGuy]
      #87624 - 23/10/07 08:09 AM

Something made on a 38spl, or 357 mag case would be fine in a sleeved 410 ga shotgun, with a decent lock-up! If it were a little more available, the 256 win mag would be perfect for this, or that same case necked down to 6mmwith no other changes in case shape. This is a wildcat I designed a few years ago to use in the little BSA MARTINI rifles, named the 243 COYOTE! It used a 75 gr bullet, and pushed that bullet @ 2500 fps from an 18" barrel, and was death on coyotes, and bobcats!

A factory round, the 218 BEE would also be a fine little cartridge for the little 410 based double rifle, or the 357 Mag/38 Spcl, would also work in the quality 410, as would the low pressure 45 long colt, though the chamber walls would be getting a little thin.

The 30-30, and such would be much better in a 28, or 20 ga action,IMO.

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Rusty
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Re: Largest caliber for sleved 410 [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #87627 - 23/10/07 08:31 AM

Try this link Barrel inserts

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Rusty
We band of brothers!
DRSS

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AzGuy
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Reged: 23/03/06
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Loc: Prescott, Arizona, USA
Re: Largest caliber for sleved 410 [Re: Rusty]
      #87630 - 23/10/07 10:28 AM

Rusty,

Thanks for the link........an amazing amount of good info on this forum!!

Thanks to all, going to have to pursue this a little more.

--------------------
Hike the Grand Canyon, you will never be the same!

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Ron_Vella
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Re: Largest caliber for sleved 410 [Re: AzGuy]
      #87631 - 23/10/07 11:17 AM

There is an option to bushing firing pins and offsetting liners. I chose to sleeve a pair of .22 barrels into the monoblock that I created from the .410 barrels, chamber for .22 Hornet, and load 50 grain cast bullets, driven at 1500 fps. The result is rimfire pressures, no need to offset the bore or the pins, etc. Also, a flat-nose cast bullet hits MUCH harder than a regular .22 rimfire.

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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
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Re: Largest caliber for sleved 410 [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #87671 - 24/10/07 08:48 AM

Quote:

There is an option to bushing firing pins and offsetting liners. I chose to sleeve a pair of .22 barrels into the monoblock that I created from the .410 barrels, chamber for .22 Hornet, and load 50 grain cast bullets, driven at 1500 fps. The result is rimfire pressures, no need to offset the bore or the pins, etc. Also, a flat-nose cast bullet hits MUCH harder than a regular .22 rimfire.



No need to shoot the Hornet slow,unless you just want to. The mono blocked 410 can take full house loads in the 22 Hornet, or the 22 K-Hornet, 218 BEE! 25-20 Win would be an option as well.

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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Ron_Vella
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Re: Largest caliber for sleved 410 [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #87676 - 24/10/07 10:17 AM

There is definitely a need to shoot the Hornet slow if you do not reduce the size of the firing pin, decrease the bushing diameter accordingly, maintain close tolerances, and ensure a proper profile on the nose of the firing pin. To do otherwise with full pressure Hornet loads is to invite a pierced primer and potential injury to both the rifle and its shooter!

Edited by ronvella (24/10/07 10:20 AM)

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DarylS
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Re: Largest caliber for sleved 410 [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #87687 - 24/10/07 12:17 PM

Ronvella - I did just about the same with an original Steven's favourite, converted to centrefire, using a Hornet barrel, running flat nosed .225" bullets at 1,500fps with Herco powder. It was a lot of fun on gophers and killed much better than any load in a .22LR. It pretty much duplicated the old .22 WRF round that shot a 45gr. flat point at 1,500fps.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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mickey
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Re: Largest caliber for sleved 410 [Re: DarylS]
      #87693 - 24/10/07 01:34 PM

You could just shoot 44-40 pistol rounds through it as is. Perhaps a tweak on the regulation would be needed but it should shoot well enough for short work.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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AzGuy
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Re: Largest caliber for sleved 410 [Re: mickey]
      #87724 - 25/10/07 01:51 AM

Quote:

You could just shoot 44-40 pistol rounds through it as is. Perhaps a tweak on the regulation would be needed but it should shoot well enough for short work.



Would the same be true for 45 Colt ammo?

Would/should I "bore out" the chokes (now IC/M) ?

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mickey
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Re: Largest caliber for sleved 410 [Re: AzGuy]
      #87728 - 25/10/07 03:16 AM

I would guess they would but have never done it. My Grandfather had an old single shot Stevens, that I have now, that he used for coyotes and other rascals around the ranch. It probably has more 44-40 through it than shot shells.

It wouldn't hurt to cylinder bore it but an open choke probably won't matter with lead bullets.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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