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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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taw1126
.333 member


Reged: 24/07/07
Posts: 290
Loc: Texas
Chapuis & Merkel
      #83299 - 31/07/07 03:47 AM

Seems I may have missed the boat on Merkel double rifles; I've wanted one of their 140's in 9.3x74R for a couple of years but spent all my gun money on old Winchester levers. Now it appears that Merkel stopped importing these into the U.S.

The only other SxS double I've noticed in that price range (and caliber) is the Chapuis. Can anyone compare the quality of these two, or make recommendations on other brands I should be looking for/looking at? I've handled quite a few Merkel shotguns and know they lock up as solidly as a vault door...if the Chapuis isn't their equal I'll probably just spend some time looking for a used Merkel.

Thanks in advance.

Trey

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zimhunter
.333 member


Reged: 05/02/04
Posts: 388
Loc: Southern Arizona
Re: Chapuis & Merkel [Re: taw1126]
      #83302 - 31/07/07 06:04 AM

Don't really know about the 140 but Merkel currently imports the 141 which is easily the equivalent of the Chapuis. I have owned both guns a Chapuis UGEX in 9.3x74r and several Merkels my current one bought this year a 141 in 8x57IRS that I am VERY pleased with. Cannot fault either maker in any way and would use either in a heartbeat for any game anywhere. I personally cannot see or feel a quality difference in either make and believe you should just buy the one that feels best to you. My current 141 has ejectors,single non-selective single trigger,red flourescent blade front sight. I have added a Leupold VX-III 1.5x5 in a pivot mount. The stock is the humpbacked European style and while I don't really like the looks It fits as if made for me. It is my understanding that most 141's have adjustable barrels but mine does not. Cannot reccomend Merkels highly enough.

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butchloc
.300 member


Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 230
Loc: faribault mn
Re: Chapuis & Merkel [Re: zimhunter]
      #83305 - 31/07/07 06:24 AM

merkel is making the barrels for chapuis. chapuis is a french rifle so if you get into the thick of thinks it just might run away

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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Chapuis & Merkel [Re: butchloc]
      #83309 - 31/07/07 07:51 AM

Quote:

merkel is making the barrels for chapuis. chapuis is a french rifle so if you get into the thick of thinks it just might run away




YOU ,, are a funny man...

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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taw1126
.333 member


Reged: 24/07/07
Posts: 290
Loc: Texas
Re: Chapuis & Merkel [Re: butchloc]
      #83310 - 31/07/07 09:33 AM

Quote:

merkel is making the barrels for chapuis. chapuis is a french rifle so if you get into the thick of thinks it just might run away


Yep, I have the same concern!

Truthfully, I didn't think the French were all that well-known for their gun-making abilities. I did talk to one guy today who owns both the Chapuis and Merkel in 9.3x74R and his positive comments on each were:
1. Chapuis has longer barrels and is about 3/4 pound heavier (a little easier on the shooter);
2. Regulation on Merkels can be user-adjusted;
3. The front trigger on Merkels is a set trigger;
4. Ribs on Chapuis are factory milled for scope mounts; and
5. Chapuis doubles are generally $400 to $500 less expensive than Merkels.

He thought they are/were pretty much equals in that price range...anyone have different opinions?

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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Chapuis & Merkel [Re: taw1126]
      #83311 - 31/07/07 09:39 AM

Taw1126, As Zimbabwe said, the Mod 141 Merkel is imported into the USA, and is a nice rifle.
At our last DRSS hunt/shoot get together Brain1 had his there and it was super accurate! His was a 9.3X74R, with two triggers, and fiber optic sights, and ejectors. His has the adjustable regulation feature, and is scoped with a 2-7X40 scope. The barrels are i 1/2 inces shorter than my 140-E Merkel, and about two lbs lighter, which I don't care for, in a rifle chambered for the 9.3X74R!

Zimbabwe's 141 is chambered for 8X57 IRS and in that chambering the rimless, cartridge, and the single trigger doesn't bother me at all, but for the larger chamberings, I like double triggers, and rimmed cartridges, and a little more weight. You won't go wrong with the Merkel, or the Chapuis, but I'd opt for the 9.3X74R chambering, with double triggers, and ejectors. If you want a mod 140-1, or a 140-E Merkel you can see if the importer will consider getting you one! They are still made, and sold in Europe, and a used one will be hard to pry loose from it's owner! Don't believe the rumor that Merkel is makeing the barrels for Chapuis, but they could not do no better,if they were, because Merkels cold hammer forged barrels are top notch, but then so are Chapuis barrels which are hammer forged as well, and are drilled from over size stock in their plant in France.

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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GoneShootin
.224 member


Reged: 18/07/07
Posts: 31
Loc: Sydney Australia
Re: Chapuis & Merkel [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #83312 - 31/07/07 10:19 AM

Do any of them make a SxS in 9.3x74R, double triggers and no ejectors just extractors. Brass aint too cheap, and i dont need it to eject.

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zimhunter
.333 member


Reged: 05/02/04
Posts: 388
Loc: Southern Arizona
Re: Chapuis & Merkel [Re: GoneShootin]
      #83315 - 31/07/07 11:58 AM

Small Correction,my 141 8x57IRS is a RIMMED cartridge and came with the rear mount base for a pivot mount. I bought the remainder of the mount from MAK and installed it in about 15 minutes and am very pleased with it. Mount cost a little over $500 and is really nice. I have only seen 2 of the 141's as that's all my dealer recieved but both had the rear base and the front dovetail where the pivot mounts was filled with a blank.

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NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: Chapuis & Merkel [Re: zimhunter]
      #83316 - 31/07/07 12:20 PM

I have been using a Chapuis in 9,3x74R for several years, including 3 Safaris to Zimbabwe. It has proven to be a superb hunting rifle. I have over 3000 [three thousand] rounds through it.

The Merkels are nice guns as well. I would handle both and get the one that fits you the best.

The 9,3x74R is a most excellent hunting calibre.

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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Chapuis & Merkel [Re: zimhunter]
      #83317 - 31/07/07 01:22 PM

Quote:

Small Correction,my 141 8x57IRS is a RIMMED cartridge and came with the rear mount base for a pivot mount. I bought the remainder of the mount from MAK and installed it in about 15 minutes and am very pleased with it. Mount cost a little over $500 and is really nice. I have only seen 2 of the 141's as that's all my dealer recieved but both had the rear base and the front dovetail where the pivot mounts was filled with a blank.



Sorry about that Zim, I was thinking of the 8X57 JRS, and didn't notice it was the IRS! You know what old age does to your thinking!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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Nighthawk
.224 member


Reged: 12/02/07
Posts: 46
Loc: Belgium
Re: Chapuis & Merkel [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #83326 - 31/07/07 06:10 PM

The IRS is the same cartridge as the JRS (has something to do with the old German alphabet). The 8x57IS (or JS) and 8x57I (or J) are the ones without the rim.

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DDouble
.300 member


Reged: 17/02/06
Posts: 127
Loc: Brazil
Re: Chapuis & Merkel [Re: Nighthawk]
      #83337 - 01/08/07 12:56 AM


Looked at both in 9.3x7R and I did choose Chapuis. The barrels are made in their factory in France and they are very accurate and well regulated. Suggest you check the video of their factory tour, here is the link...

http://www.weaponvideos.org/viewvideo/24...pkey=4ffd05543a

--------------------
Ddouble

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taw1126
.333 member


Reged: 24/07/07
Posts: 290
Loc: Texas
Re: Chapuis & Merkel [Re: DDouble]
      #83339 - 01/08/07 01:10 AM

Well, if I had to make a choice today I would go with Chapuis simply because of the price difference...I can't find Merkel's for less than $6500 and I can get a Chapuis for about $2000 less (which buys a hell of a lot of ammo). I'll probably keep looking for awhile but right now it looks like I'll be purchasing my first French firearm soon.

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zimhunter
.333 member


Reged: 05/02/04
Posts: 388
Loc: Southern Arizona
Re: Chapuis & Merkel [Re: taw1126]
      #83347 - 01/08/07 04:10 AM

On my Chapuis I removed the blocks in the rib and made bases for Ruger rings and was well pleased with the results. I don't think you will be disappointed at all with your choice. They are fine guns.

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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Chapuis & Merkel [Re: GoneShootin]
      #83362 - 01/08/07 09:03 AM

Quote:

Do any of them make a SxS in 9.3x74R, double triggers and no ejectors just extractors. Brass aint too cheap, and i dont need it to eject.



The Merkel ejactors are an option, but it pays to buy them, and if you don't want to use ejectors simply disinguage them. This is so that when you are ready to sell the rifle it will automaticlly be worth $1000 more than without them, and all you have to do is re-install the springs before selling the rifle! Many people will not buy a extractor double rifle, even at a discount. By haveing them you offer the option! OTOH, a single trigger is something that is also a sale killer, on a rifle larger than 8MM, and it is much easier to sell a double rifle with double triggers, and a single trigger is very expensive to replace with a set of double triggers.

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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DDouble
.300 member


Reged: 17/02/06
Posts: 127
Loc: Brazil
Re: Chapuis & Merkel [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #83497 - 03/08/07 10:55 PM

My new Chapuis arrived yesterday, and after paying all taxes (Brazilian taxes are 60% on the price of gun+freight) I got it through customs.

What a beauty!!!

The wood is much better than I had hoped. It is rated AAA but to me it is exibition grade.
Wood to metal work is flawless.
The extra 20 gauge barrel with separate foreend has a perfectly fit with extractors timing also perfect. Ran to the club and shot a 22/25 in olympic trench, better than several guys with their Perazzis. It has a super tight shot pattern!
The gun is superbly regulated for the Norma ammo, but will need some work for the solids in intend on using for our water buffalo.

This morning I trying to cancel a few appointments to free a couple of days and head to the amazon to shoot a few buff...

--------------------
Ddouble

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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Chapuis & Merkel [Re: DDouble]
      #83544 - 05/08/07 12:20 AM

Quote:

My new Chapuis arrived yesterday, and after paying all taxes (Brazilian taxes are 60% on the price of gun+freight) I got it through customs.

What a beauty!!!

The gun is superbly regulated for the Norma ammo, but will need some work for the solids in intend on using for our water buffalo.

This morning I trying to cancel a few appointments to free a couple of days and head to the amazon to shoot a few buff...



DDouble, what solids are you planning on useing in your Chapuis? Chapuis will not warranty the rifle if you use mono-metel solids in your rifle! It seems there was a guy on AR,that used Barnes Super Solids, (Monolithic) and his barrels seperated from the ribs, twice! Chapuis fixed the rifle, then it did it again, and they began to ask questions. When they found out he had been useing monolithic solids, they fixed the rifle, and told him he was on his own, if he used the monolithics in this or another Chapuis double rifle! Woodlieghs are OK, and IMO the North Fork cps, and fps are useable in any double rifle because of their design, but Chapuis may not see it that way!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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jimatcat
.224 member


Reged: 04/04/06
Posts: 15
Loc: victoria texas, usa... 125 mil...
Re: Chapuis & Merkel [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #83573 - 05/08/07 10:53 PM

i bought 1 of the chapuis' from dale nygaard in the last group buy... a 9,3 x 74r in UGEX...double triggers, non-ejector, extractor model... included the chapuis bases and QR scope rings... other than having some left trigger trouble and the release lever marking wood and receiver, im pleased with the rifle... its my first double, i shoot it very well.... its regulated to 50 yds.. i use factory S&B 285 gr sp's... i have a 3" group at 50... with irons, on sticks... maybe with a low power scope , i can do better....

--------------------
go big or go home

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DDouble
.300 member


Reged: 17/02/06
Posts: 127
Loc: Brazil
Re: Chapuis & Merkel [Re: jimatcat]
      #83599 - 06/08/07 12:15 PM

Dugaboy, yes I read the suggestions to avoid monolithics so I chose exactly the wooleights you suggested. My doubt was between using 286 or 320's as I have always liked the heavier bullets. I will probably stick with the 286's because the rifle was regulated for them.

How much difference is expected in regulation from softs to solids if I keep the same weight bullet?

--------------------
Ddouble

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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Chapuis & Merkel [Re: jimatcat]
      #83607 - 06/08/07 11:44 PM

George of Champlin Arms was really pushing the Chapuis at the SCI show in Reno--however he is also a dealer for them so preference might be somewhat tainted by that small item

I have had a Merkel and it shot great--and quality seemed quite good--

don't think there is really a bad choice here..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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