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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing
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empirevr
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Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
Project possibility?
      #82823 - 22/07/07 06:36 AM

http://www.baikalinc.ru/en/company/54.html

Or not?

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27009
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Project possibility? [Re: empirevr]
      #82827 - 22/07/07 06:53 AM

It could possibly be converted to a .45/70-type BP ctg. The rebounding hammers usually are not capable of allowing higher pressure ammunition, but some are. This Russian gun may or may not possess the strength to allow for re-tubing on the monoblock to a smokeless-type round, certainly nothing like a nitro-express round. This 'work' will cost you much more than the end result will be worth, unless you can do much of the work yourself. I suggest you find something else to 'play' with.
; Most shotguns are designed around handling pressure up to 12,000psi, which is the maximum allowed in shotgun ammunition. Some are over-built, allowing for transformation, while others should be left as shotguns.
: Since most Russian guns have chrome lined bores, rifling those present would not be a possibiltiy. If non-chrome lined bores were present, they could possilby be rifled, then you would have a powerful BP 12 bore rifle, however the spread of the bores at the breech is usually too much to allow the bores to shoot together, but handloading possibly would allow this to work - of course, if not chrome lined.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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empirevr
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Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
Re: Project possibility? [Re: DarylS]
      #82831 - 22/07/07 07:07 AM

Ok....

Thanks!

Just had some interesting features......

I had a Baikal hammerless with 28" tubes, was one hell of a tough hard kicking gun.

Ben

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EDELWEISS
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Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 608
Loc: Gettysburg
Re: Project possibility? [Re: empirevr]
      #82856 - 22/07/07 04:54 PM

I cant say for that particular model; but EAA (European American Armory), was offering 30-30 and 45-70 inserts for the Baikal coach guns with 20 inch barrels. There were several different models that could use the inserts, and Im pretty sure some had hammers. All of the acceptable models had screw in chokes.

The inserts were "loaded" like shells into the breach of the shotgun barrels, then one of two "spacers" was placed between the barrels and the muzzle, and finally a nut was screwed over each of the inserts against an "O"ring onto the shotgun muzzles. The spacers allowed some regulation. The barrel nuts are knurled and extend about 3/4 on an inch beyond the shotgun muzzles. A "L" shaped rear sight was included that had to drilled and tapped onto the rib.

I believe they were made by Franchi or Tangfolio. Originally they retailed for about $150.oo each. Last I saw the 30-30's were well under $100.oo at CDNN.

There was no requirment to bush the firing pins. The assembled gun was fairly front heavy, and the barrel nut made a CAPE Gun unimpressive, as the nut would extend on one side. In fairness it was a good idea that could have been done a little better.

At 300-400 for the gun and another 300 for two inserts, it was priced right for beginners, but certainly not a real double rifle. My biggest complaint was picking the coach gun for the platform. Perhaps it was because of overall weight of the assembled gun; but I would have much rather seen a 24 or 26 inch barreled version.

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed

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EDELWEISS
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Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 608
Loc: Gettysburg
Re: Project possibility? [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #82858 - 22/07/07 05:02 PM

Also there is the possibility of using rifled choke tubes. I havent seen any factory rifled tubes for the Baikals, but a couple of the choke manufactures will make custom rifled tubes. The question remains as to a usable twist for ball and conicals and I suppose sabots. Then there comes the issue of "reg-u-guessing"

Still its an interesting concept for those of us who are still dreaming about REAL Doubles and Paradox guns.

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed

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empirevr
.375 member


Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
Re: Project possibility? [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #82898 - 23/07/07 07:40 AM

Thanks Edelweiss

I think i'll read some posts about building doubles from shotguns, and maybe post another about it........

I'd like an old type gun, heavy strong et al, then turn it into something handy like a 577x 2.75" light nitro such as Marrakai's or a 50-140 sharps or such........

Ben

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EDELWEISS
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Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 608
Loc: Gettysburg
Re: Project possibility? [Re: empirevr]
      #83012 - 25/07/07 01:24 AM

I was actually thinking about the possibilities of fitting (if thats required), a hammer action to some of their longer barrels. Yes I like the Old Hammer style too!

Ive been toying with the MACE inserts for another project. They only make them a maximum of 18 inches. The price is right enough for me to experiment with them. So far my current scheem is to add unrifled extentions to lenthen the inserts to 24 inches then use a similar (although smaller) nut and wedge system to secure anf "reg-u-guess" until Im on target.

If Baikal rates their guns as safe for 45-70 factory, then Im guessing a 45-120BP load will work, especially if I bush the firering pins and sitck to strictly BP loads. 45-120 has the added "bling" of a 3 1/4inch case compared to the shorter 45-70, and its a simple task to lengthen the chamber.

It'll never be an Africa gun but the project is half the fun for me, and it'll raise some eyebrows in the Whitetail camps. Plus Im thinking it'll smack some Wild Boar with some authority.

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed

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empirevr
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Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
Re: Project possibility? [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #83018 - 25/07/07 05:14 AM

Hmm

Thing is im after .50 and bigger really unless i head toward 450 nitro speeds with a 450 bullet.

Wonder about a 10g shotgun,modern,converted to maybe 500 nitro.......or 577x2.75

Thoughts?

Ben

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EDELWEISS
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Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 608
Loc: Gettysburg
Re: Project possibility? [Re: empirevr]
      #83064 - 26/07/07 01:29 AM

Sounds you you've got some great ideas. I went with the 45-120, beacuse its easy enough to load and in a pinch you can shoot factory 45-70 through it. Plus I figured if it works 450No2 is a possible upgrade.

I too, am in pursuit of 50+ bore sizes but frankly I have extremely limited knowledge of the workings of that class of cartridges and rifles. Ive got a double rifle in 50cal but its a muzzel loader so Im reasonably safe there, but beyond that its only a hazy theory to me.

Ive tinkered around with thoughts of loading conical bullets into brass shotgun cases and possibly having rifled 12 or 20 gauge barrels made for a double shotgun. I even pondered trying a 20/577 type insert made and loading with 58 cal minie balls. So far the best theory Ive dreamed up was a 16 gauge sleeved to rifled 28+/- gauge for 58 minie balls. Im thinking that the hollow base minies will be a bit forgiving with loads and chambers, and since Im limiting my self to nothing more dangerous than wild boar or possibly black bear, with BP equivilent loads, that the system should work. Of course that whole nasty regulating thing is still lurking in the distance.

As for 10 gauge, Ive got a suitable double that Im planing on cobbling together as a Paradox/bore gun of sorts. Right now its shortened to 25 inches and has a set of sights installed. I suppose I should be happy that its a decent slug gun as it is, but Im considering having tapped for custom rifled chokes. My concern is the blank choke tubes are only a couple inches long and Id prefer 5 or 6 inches at a nice slow twist to be more in line with the original Paradox design.

Good luck on your project.

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed

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empirevr
.375 member


Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
Re: Project possibility? [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #83071 - 26/07/07 04:26 AM

Theres a point though........

10g ball and slug gun, might be handy enough.......

That blasted barrel lining thing is pricey, and then it must be regulated etc, do you have to regulate for slugs and balls???

Daryl uses his guns in this manner too, im sure he'll shed a little light here.......

It wont be my project, in the sense that i'll be paying a smith to do it.

Either that or a Ruger No.1 in 500 nitro or something.........one shot worries me a lot though.Yes i'll only be up against what your up against, but then i have x amount more faith in the 50+ cals as stoppers........

Thanks

Ben

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EDELWEISS
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Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 608
Loc: Gettysburg
Re: Project possibility? [Re: empirevr]
      #83104 - 26/07/07 10:33 PM

Well this is coming from the voice of ignorance, as Ive never hunted anything more dangerous than Black Bear and Wild Boar. Short of running in amongst a heard a single shot VS. a bolt, never bothered me if you have a PH standing next to you. The PH can fire whilst you reload. I only have experience with a No1 and Ive always found it quick especially with a second round between the fingers of my off hand.

My 10 ga started as a 30inch duck/goose gun, that just screemed at me for help. I had a local smith shorten the barrels and add sights. That kept the price within reason and it happily shoots factory slugs well with in whitetail vital zone groups. On the downside Ive blown entirely too much money trying to make brass shells with exposed conical bullets, purely for the "Ahhhh" effect. Im still scheeming about the brass shell issue, but its on the back burner. If you decide to try that route drop me a line and I'll pass on all my info, I also have a mold for the bullets.

I'll try to post more later today, gotta run for now.

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed

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