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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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empirevr
.375 member


Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
450 bpe
      #82768 - 21/07/07 07:41 AM

Do any of you have one?

Or should i simply say, what is the 'max' load that can be had from this cartridge, using N for BP?

Kynoch have 2150 with a 350gr SN.......

Thanks

Ben

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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: 450 bpe [Re: empirevr]
      #82781 - 21/07/07 11:56 AM

Ben,

You need to come to the next BGRC Lodi Wisconsin Match in October or to speak to Ernie Stalman of Badger Barrels. He owns at least one and would be the best person to ask. I never fail to be amazed by his collection of double rifles - he has some real beauties and is always happy to explain the intricacies of owning and shooting these guns to anyone who asks him.

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: 450 bpe [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #82782 - 21/07/07 12:16 PM

Quote:

Ben,

You need to come to the next BGRC Lodi Wisconsin Match in October or to speak to Ernie Stalman of Badger Barrels. He owns at least one and would be the best person to ask. I never fail to be amazed by his collection of double rifles - he has some real beauties and is always happy to explain the intricacies of owning and shooting these guns to anyone who asks him.

Good hunting!





Ernie owns at least one as he bought 2 from me.

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empirevr
.375 member


Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
Re: 450 bpe [Re: 500Nitro]
      #82800 - 22/07/07 02:06 AM

Thanks

And any info on this Kynoch round or the 450 bpe chaps?

Ben

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: 450 bpe [Re: empirevr]
      #82804 - 22/07/07 02:58 AM

2150fps sounds too hot to me.

That's standard velocity for the 350gr out of the 450ne.

Most properly regulating NFB loads for 450bpe rifles I've seen cruise at the mid to high 1800's for straight case guns and up to the high 1900's for the 3-1/4" bottleneck guns.

My magnum 450, which uses 3-1/2" bottleneck cases and a 5-1/2 dram charge with the 350grsn bullet, regulates at 2025fps, and that's with a NFB load of Varget and dacron.


On page 168 of Graeme Wright's book, Shooting the British Double Rifle, the listed MV of Kynoch's .450NFB load is 1750fps with a 365gr bullet.

I would be very hesitant to consider the use of ammunition reported to run 350gr bullets at 2150fps in a 450 BPE rifle.

When you're working with a BPE double rifle, you're looking for the regulation load for the gun, not the max load for the cartridge components.

Are you looking to create a load to build a homebuilt DR around, are you shopping for an old BPE DR and want to know how far you can push it, or are you just curious?

With modern components, there are plenty of examples of guys pushing much higher than 'vintage' velocities out of modern barrel steel on modern actions in such cartridge types as the various Sharps cartridges and the .45/70...





--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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empirevr
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Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
Re: 450 bpe [Re: tinker]
      #82811 - 22/07/07 04:14 AM

Hi Tinker

Thanks

Basically i was wondering if an energy total of between 3,500 and 4,00 ft lbs would be possible out of a 450 bpe........

Basically in the sense that there is a high power 'light nitro' loading for the 577 2.75 bpe.........

I also find it very confusing, that the 500 bpe can be wound up with ease, yet the 450 cannot.

I guess its too do with case size and pressure then?

For example, what can one get from a 500 3.25" bpe shell?

Thanks

Ben

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 450 bpe [Re: empirevr]
      #82824 - 22/07/07 06:41 AM

Go to Accurate Arms web site for loading data on the Sharps black powder ctg. for the same length as English rounds. They will show what velocities they got from black powder equivalent loads with the powders they used. Their standard for the .50 3-1/4" was 28,000CUP, if I'm not mistaken. Depending on the bullet weight, this low pressure allowed them to load the .50 to well over 4,000FPE, whatever that number actually means.
: The smaller bores require higher pressures to obtain the same FPE - that's just common sense.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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empirevr
.375 member


Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
Re: 450 bpe [Re: DarylS]
      #82828 - 22/07/07 07:01 AM

Hi

Thanks Daryl thats spot on........

I have heard of loads giving some 3,600 fpe......

Thats what, 1900 fps with a 440 grainer......

Ben

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: 450 bpe [Re: empirevr]
      #82947 - 23/07/07 11:44 PM

empirevr:
If you look on page 77 of Wrighty's 2nd edition, you will find a table of recommended 'factory load' equivalents for Nitro-for-Black cartridges.

The .500/.450 shows a 350gr bullet at 1950 fps.

The .450 x 3 1/4 shows a 350gr bullet at 1970 fps and a 365gr bullet at 1950 fps. A few reduced loads which still regulate are given there as well.

Like Tinker, I get just over 1950 fps with a 350gr Woodleigh from my Tolley .500/.450 x 3 1/2 if I cock my hat at just the right angle. That's with 72gr AR2208 (=Varget). The ME is around 3000 ftlbs.

According to Graeme Wright (on the same page of his book) the .500 3-inch turns up 1850 fps with the 440gr bullet. This matches the Kynoch factory-load of 100+ yrs ago, and gives ~3350 fpe.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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empirevr
.375 member


Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
Re: 450 bpe [Re: Marrakai]
      #82973 - 24/07/07 05:16 AM

Thanks Marrakai

Hows your 577 doing?

How much would a gun like that cost to have made including shotgun?

Ben

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