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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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AzGuy
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Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 388
Loc: Prescott, Arizona, USA

If such a bad idea, why so few for sale
#82336 - 13/07/07 03:28 AM

If chambering the 375 H&H belted is such a bad idea and they all shoot off face, why is it that we don't see very many on the used market?

Probably to the dismay and disgust of the armchair theorists, I'm starting to think that the "actual owners/shooters" of DR's in 375 belted may be very happy with their rifles.

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: If such a bad idea, why so few for sale [Re: AzGuy]
#82339 - 13/07/07 03:53 AM

"Probably to the dismay and disgust of the armchair theorists, I'm starting to think that the "actual owners/shooters" of DR's in 375 belted may be very happy with their rifles."

Yep, I'm one of them - happy with my Merkel 375.

The whole thing is a beat up - and most DR shooters who overload their guns won't admit that they overloaded them,
prefering to blame it on the gun / manufacturer.

I reckon it would take 20 - 30 rounds to take any DR off the face.

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smicha6551
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Reged: 09/08/05
Posts: 88
Loc: NYC & Kuwait

Re: If such a bad idea, why so few for sale [Re: 500Nitro]
#82341 - 13/07/07 04:27 AM

I'm guessing you mean 20-30,000 rounds.

Would this apply to the Merkel in .416 Rigby?

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: If such a bad idea, why so few for sale [Re: smicha6551]
#82343 - 13/07/07 04:32 AM

smicha6551

I mean 20 - 30 rounds.

Load up a high pressure (ie full) load, put 2 in the chamber
and fire away - if your shoulder could take it !!!

Or pull both triggers at the same time and double discharge it.

Edited by 500Nitro (13/07/07 08:30 AM)

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3sixbits
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Reged: 11/07/07
Posts: 41
Loc: Alaska

Re: If such a bad idea, why so few for sale [Re: smicha6551]
#82347 - 13/07/07 08:15 AM

Quote:

I'm guessing you mean 20-30,000 rounds.

Would this apply to the Merkel in .416 Rigby?

Your shooting blanks pard, with that link, I'm sorry to say.

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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
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Loc: South Carolina

Re: If such a bad idea, why so few for sale [Re: 3sixbits]
#82357 - 13/07/07 10:49 AM

I've shot between 500 and 700 in my Merkel 375. I do load it to 375 flanged velocity however. I also have never had a round fail to extract. For some strange reason, the 270 grain barnes TSX has the least felt recoil.

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JPK
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Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD

Re: If such a bad idea, why so few for sale [Re: 500Nitro]
#82366 - 13/07/07 01:32 PM

Quote:

"Probably to the dismay and disgust of the armchair theorists, I'm starting to think that the "actual owners/shooters" of DR's in 375 belted may be very happy with their rifles."

Yep, I'm one of them - happy with my Merkel 375.

The whole thing is a beat up - and most DR shooters who overload their guns won't admit that they overloaded them,
prefering to blame it on the gun / manufacturer.

I reckon it would take 20 - 30 rounds to take any DR off the face.

More than that I blieve, so long as the rifle is properly lubicated. I believe that off face rifles (shotguns too) are more the result of no or poor lubrication, or shooting with dirty hinge and lug lubrication than pressure.

Of course, the huge cases of NE cartridges just beg an inexperienced fellow who has grown up with velocity, velocity, velocity in every article he has ever read to try to push a double rifle.

Still, my double rifle is a 458wm and after about 800 full house rounds it is showing no signs of hinge trouble. But I pay attention to lubrication.

JPK

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: If such a bad idea, why so few for sale [Re: JPK]
#82368 - 13/07/07 02:03 PM

JPK

Valid Point, but I could be bothered listing all the things
I wouldn't do to get it off the face.

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400NitroExpress
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Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State

Re: If such a bad idea, why so few for sale [Re: AzGuy]
#82370 - 13/07/07 02:26 PM

Quote:

If chambering the 375 H&H belted is such a bad idea and they all shoot off face, why is it that we don't see very many on the used market?

I guess you "look" with your eyes closed.

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39883
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: If such a bad idea, why so few for sale [Re: 400NitroExpress]
#82374 - 13/07/07 03:40 PM

Quote:

Quote:

If chambering the 375 H&H belted is such a bad idea .... why is it that we don't see very many on the used market?

I guess you "look" with your eyes closed.

Yes I agree. When looking for examples of big bore double rifles photos to display on NitroExpress.com it is very common to find modern DRs chambered in .375 H&H Magnum.

But maybe some could answer or confirm what has been said above in the thread. It is not the fact the case is belted that is the problem with "off-face", but some believe a belted case can be a problem for extraction vs a rimmed case. Rather it is overloading or using full power loads or factory ammunition that is the potential issue.

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500Nitro
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Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: If such a bad idea, why so few for sale [Re: NitroX]
#82378 - 13/07/07 03:53 PM

Never had a problem of Extraction with mine.

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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA

Re: If such a bad idea, why so few for sale [Re: JPK]
#82418 - 14/07/07 09:48 AM

I must agree with JPK, partially that is, on the lubrication, being more the grimlin that causes the "OFF FACE" condition than high pressure! I would say a full 90% of the off face doubles is because of poor care, rether than overloading.

The problem is a full 90% of the folks who have never owned a double rifle, and start by buying a rimless, or rimless belted cartridge start by thinking they can boost the velocity considerably. This is simply the mindset of most who are attracted to rimless belted magnum cartridges, and have been used to bolt action rifles, and do not fully understand double rifle feeding. This misunderstanding, and poor lubrication combined is death to a double rifle.

The main drawback to a properly loaded, and lubricated double chambered for a rimless, or belted rimless cartridge is, the chance taken in the loading, and extraction/ejection mishaps causeing the shooter a problem at a very inopertune time! JPK, shoots a 458 Win Mag double rifle, and he seems to have zero trouble with it in any way. Still, I for one, of many double rifle shooters will not have a double rifle chambered for such chamberings, that is to be used for dangerous game! Smaller theings like deer, no problem, if it fails to load, or eject properly nothing is lost more than a missed chance at a shot! OTOH, if the same thing happens with a Cape Buffalo, or Lion closeing on you fast, ..........well

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: If such a bad idea, why so few for sale [Re: 500Nitro]
#82431 - 14/07/07 01:49 PM

Quote:

Never had a problem of Extraction with mine.

Note I said:

"but some believe a belted case can be a problem for extraction vs a rimmed case."

Thanks for your first hand comments.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: If such a bad idea, why so few for sale [Re: NitroX]
#82432 - 14/07/07 01:55 PM

NitroX

Noted

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