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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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empirevr
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Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
500 bpe 3.5"
      #82020 - 08/07/07 05:54 AM

Does this exist?

Sorry i cannot confirm anywhere else........

So; 450 bpe = 2" 2.5" 3" 3.25" cases right?

500 bpe = 3" 3.25" and 3.5" or not?

577 = 2.75" 3" 3.25" yes?

I am wondering about the 500x3.5" though as this i cannot remember.....

With gratitude,

Ben

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400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: 500 bpe 3.5" [Re: empirevr]
      #82021 - 08/07/07 06:58 AM

Not that I can think of. Westley Richards' long defunct metallic cartridge company, National Arms & Ammunition, had a 3.5" .500 basic case, but it was never used for a .500 bore cartridge that I'm aware of. The .500/.450 3.5" NA&A BPE and the .475 No. 2 were the only two cartridges ever based on it as I recall.

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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empirevr
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Re: 500 bpe 3.5" [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #82022 - 08/07/07 08:21 AM

400

Thankyou

Thanks also for the new caliber, 500/450 3.5" bpe......never come across it,i shall now look into it in case my search provides another viable option.

Ben

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sbs470
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Reged: 15/04/04
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Re: 500 bpe 3.5" [Re: empirevr]
      #82043 - 08/07/07 10:05 PM

I have just been through Bill Fleming's book

British sporting rifle cartridges
A summary of case types,headstamps, bullets and charge variations.

no mention of a 3 1/2" BPE case.

good shooting
sbs470

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empirevr
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Reged: 03/09/06
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Re: 500 bpe 3.5" [Re: sbs470]
      #82046 - 08/07/07 10:16 PM

Thanks sbs

My mistake.......

Ben

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1980E26
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Re: 500 bpe 3.5" [Re: empirevr]
      #82144 - 10/07/07 08:33 AM

Ben,


The 500/450 3.5" BPE is a very rare round and only a few have made it through the journey of time. I am fortunate enough to have one in my collection. It has the trade mark waffle primer of NA&A. Pretty cool stuff.

Corbin

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: 500 bpe 3.5" [Re: 1980E26]
      #82156 - 10/07/07 12:57 PM

Both Tinker and I have Tolley doubles chambered for the 3 1/2 inch .450 Magnum Express cartridge. Sacrilege I know, but I shoot blown-out 3 1/4 cases in mine, reloads of course. The bullet-jump does not appear to affect accuracy, (with jacketed projectiles, at least). N-for-B ballistics are 350gr RN-JSP at 1950 fps.
At least I have avoided the need for case-trimming!

Most original 3 1/2 inch cases surviving in Australian collections are coiled brass to my knowledge.

The .450 No.2 case is so similar (except for rim thickness) that you would be better off with that cartridge as a preferred chambering IMHO, loaded down to BP ballistics if that is what you require.

Remember that large case capacity was an advantage only if you were looking for increased velocity with black powder, or had to cope with the pressure increases of cordite in the tropical heat. With modern powders, extra case capacity is a pain in the proverbial, as it has to be filled with wads or filler. Modern nitro powders allow fully 2 tons less pressure for the same ballistics in most N-for-B loadings, and the Hodgdon 'Extreme' powders are temperature-insensitive, so the big cases are useful today only if you're shooting charcoal.

If I were custom-chambering a modern double for a .500 with N-for-B ballistics, I would probably consider cutting it down to 2 3/4 ! ....and it would still need a filler wad!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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tinker
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Re: 500 bpe 3.5" [Re: Marrakai]
      #82164 - 10/07/07 03:03 PM

My Tolley 500/450 3-1/2" BPE runs best at 2025 or so FPS with 350grSNRN jacketed bullets.

I'm using 21gr Dacron as case filler on (can't remember just how much at this moment, I think 75gr) Varget powder and fed215 primers.


Also, thanks to Marrakai's generous nature, I will be the proud owner of Two J&W Tolley rifles in this chambering once he completes the build of the special shipping case for his TLH model and his nice 6.5mm mannlicher bolt rifle (which he's offered as a gift to my recently born son)

Thanks Marrakai!

*tinker keeps wishing...*


--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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empirevr
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Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
Re: 500 bpe 3.5" [Re: tinker]
      #82171 - 10/07/07 05:51 PM

Yep

Better a 500x3" as i am already cringing at ammo costs, Kynamco from their 2001 catalog which yes,i still have, state about $20 a round loaded N for bp....

Hmm, better learn the loading game.

Ben

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
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Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: 500 bpe 3.5" [Re: tinker]
      #82177 - 10/07/07 11:30 PM

Tinker:
They may complete the special shipping case right after they finish building my coffin!

"...cold dead hands", you know the saying!

The two Tolleys would look rather nice cased together though!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: 500 bpe 3.5" [Re: Marrakai]
      #82184 - 11/07/07 12:53 AM

Marrakai - I am with you on case length. When my bro and I re-=barreled our black powder ctg. guns, his a Sharps and mine a Rolling Block, we went with the .50 Alaskan case. This, of course, is a blown out .348 Winchester at 2.1" long and easily runs over 2,000fps with low pressure smokeless loads and 450gr. bullets. The 520 and 550gr. both make 1,800fps, safe in both guns using easily aquired H4895 and Varget. With black powder loads to 85gr., they are very accurate and about duplicate the .50/90, while accuracy is very much better than any original Sharps ever gave in that chambering. We went with 24" twist McGowen barrels and mine,w iht BP lads runs 1-1/2" at both 100 and 200 meters using tang rear and hooded post front sights.
; We both struggled with getting descent accuracy from the long cases, 3-1/4" in both the .45 and .50 cal. That was enough and went with the easily aquired .348 brass in it's shorter length. Accuracy was an instant deal with them as most any load shot better than the best of the longer cases.
; AA and Hodgdon both have data for the big cases.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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empirevr
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Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
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Re: 500 bpe 3.5" [Re: DarylS]
      #82186 - 11/07/07 01:09 AM

Quote:

Marrakai - I am with you on case length. When my bro and I re-=barreled our black powder ctg. guns, his a Sharps and mine a Rolling Block, we went with the .50 Alaskan case. This, of course, is a blown out .348 Winchester at 2.1" long and easily runs over 2,000fps with low pressure smokeless loads and 450gr. bullets. The 520 and 550gr. both make 1,800fps, safe in both guns using easily aquired H4895 and Varget. With black powder loads to 85gr., they are very accurate and about duplicate the .50/90, while accuracy is very much better than any original Sharps ever gave in that chambering. We went with 24" twist McGowen barrels and mine,w iht BP lads runs 1-1/2" at both 100 and 200 meters using tang rear and hooded post front sights.
; We both struggled with getting descent accuracy from the long cases, 3-1/4" in both the .45 and .50 cal. That was enough and went with the easily aquired .348 brass in it's shorter length. Accuracy was an instant deal with them as most any load shot better than the best of the longer cases.
; AA and Hodgdon both have data for the big cases.



Oh how i long for a 577x 2.75" now.........:(

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