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If you want to go after elk, etc or shoot at 300+ yards, use a bolt.

Dave

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Hop,

This thread is bordering on the absurd. Long range 200+ yards and double rifle don’t belong in the same sentence. As soon as you slap a scope on a double to make that 250 yard shot, you are carrying an extra barrel for no go reason.

However, let me tell you that an inexpensive ultra-compact 45-70 has been desired by some Alaskan guides over the lever gun. Having a guaranteed near instant second shot has high appeal when a grizzly is bearing down.

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No greater misconception has ever been printed, than the above post! Bonanza, you know better that to make such statements! No other way to say it you are simply wrong!

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..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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I agree with Bonanza that this disucssion is indeed bordering on the absurd. I don't understand the concept of trying to force a superb short and medium range tool (a Double Rifle) into something that it can be in theory, but in practice will always be less than ideal, a long range weapon. A double must be regulated to allow both barrels to shoot to the same or close to the same point of impact. Take a lighter double (30-06) and regulate it for 300 yds, and then it becomes useless at 100 or 150 as the point of aim is no longer there.

Of course, you can always 'regulate' a single barrel by using a scope and sighting one of the two barrels to shoot accurately at 300 or 400yds. So what, you now have a single barrel, single shot rifle.

And are you really going to shoot a bear at 300yds? Not me, and not something a competent guide will permit.

If you want to go after elk, etc or shoot at 300+ yards, use a bolt. We seem to be deluding ourselves by ignoring real life and spending inordinate time speculating about making doubles do what they were never intended to do, and what they will always be compromised in accomplishing.

Dave

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I must back off Bonanza! He didn't make the most rediculous post here, the one quoted above is the winner. A complete misunderstanding ogf how a double rifle works properly, from beginning to end!
A double rifle is not regulated to one distance! It is regulated to shoot paralell, This misunder standing comes from useing the same word for cutting the sights as is used for regulating the barrels physical convergance. Be cause the barrels physically converge, does not mean the bullet paths converge! It would take twenty pages to explain this to folks who have believed the gun rag writers who don't understand double rifles either! Do I'll not waste my time, because very knowledgable people right here on this web-site have explained it time after time, but it seem s to be one of those things that people refuse to learn!

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..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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A double must be regulated to allow both barrels to shoot to the same or close to the same point of impact. Take a lighter double (30-06) and regulate it for 300 yds, and then it becomes useless at 100 or 150 as the point of aim is no longer there.

Dave

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I think it may be true if we are talking about a scope on a slow cartridge. Then the trajectory would be the cause of high shots at 100-150 yards.

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What ideal round would you want?


[QUOTE]I know the practical easy answer is the 9.3x74R but I would say that is lacks legs/trajectory for the longer distances.Most western shots and animals I have seen taken can go 200+ yards.You wouldn't want you buddies dropping them at those ranges with you just watching or missing rainbow shots.[/QUOTE]

The 9.3X74R double rifle , properly loaded will do just fine at 250 yds, and beyond! [color]


[QUOTE]Is such a Double round out there with such potential? No??[/QUOTE]

Yes, there are several! The 9.3x74R is the best of the lot, because it has power for very large animals, yet is flat shooting enough, to handle 250+ yd Elk, or Moose, yoet is fine for cross canyon deer hunting, or shooting across wide expances of grass to prong horn. However, the 7X64 rimmed, 7X57 rimmed, the new 30 Blazer, rivals the 300 win mag., and all properly loaded will handle ranges the shooter can't!

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The most absurd aspect of this post is the notion that the correct calibers don't already exist. As Dugaboy1 said above and I posted earlier, there are plenty of cartridges commonly chambered in double rifles that fill the bill nicely from a pure ballistics standpoint.

Or maybe the most absurd thing is the encouragement of shooting game from field positions at much past 250 yards with any gun & cartridge!

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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"
Or maybe the most absurd thing is the encouragement of shooting game from field positions at much past 250 yards with any gun & cartridge!"

Amen, brother, amen. In addition to my agreement on the first point, shooting any game at long distance should be done from a rest, prone using a support, and only if that is the ONLY way to approach game in the first place (i.e. varmints, mountain critters, etc, all of which must be hunted at 300+ yards.) There are many of us who go out West and tag prairie poodles at way beyond that range, using a portable benchrest and big optics. There is no way to get close enough to shoot offhand if you were silly enough to try. And, would any humane or sane hunter shoot any animal at long range where the risk of wounding it and not following up quickly to finish the job was a possibility.

Remember the old hunting adage, "First, get as close as you can, THEN GET TEN YARDS CLOSER BEFORE YOU SHOOT!"

Dave

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What you say is true, I find that most shooters in the field can't keep all their shots on a 55 gal drum at 300 yds under hunting conditions, off hand, and some from a rest. My thing is "get close, the closer", but that is not what started this thread!

The thread started with a little tongue in cheek snikering, implying that a double rifle was useless for long range shooting at game! That implication is what I was addressing, not should anyone shoo that far!

The fact is a double rifle properly loaded, is just as capable as any single barrel hunting rifle,of like chambering, if the owner knows what he is doing at the loading bench, and when zeroing his sights, scope, or iron!

I would say there are those on this website, who know how to zero a scope for double rifle shooting, some who own, and shoot double rifles do not! They think they do, but the fact is they do not. Addtionally most who do not own, and shoot doubles, are clueless for the most part! These people try to zero the scope on a double the same way he does on a single barrel rifle and that will never work past the point where he zeroed it!

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..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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If we want to select/create an ideal Double caliber/round for hunting the Wester USA--primarily whitetail/pigs/antelope/black bear-- and elk/moose at the top end--

What ideal round would you want?

Ideally-

1) You would want it rimmed for fast work with ejectors
2) You want higher velocity with lighter bullets around 150-200 grains for better trajectory longer ranges similar to bolt guns used for decades and decades
3) Adjustable regulation for accuracy/convergence at distance.
4) It will be used more with scope than without
5)The round design would be herently accurate

Your Double rifle requirements would be quality,weight between 7-8 pounds without scope, and accuracy to 250-300 yards!! Most american hunters would doubt this possible with a Double. After all they know Doubles are strictly short range rifles aren't they?

I know the practical easy answer is the 9.3x74R but I would say that is lacks legs/trajectory for the longer distances.Most western shots and animals I have seen taken can go 200+ yards.You wouldn't want you buddies dropping them at those ranges with you just watching or missing rainbow shots.

Is such a Double round out there with such potential? No??

How about a 30 cal/7mm cal Double?? The 30 cal works great in bolt guns and the Double is just the launching pad--

Laugh as you want but I think such an accurate Double pushing a 150-200 gr bullet at 2900-2700 fps would work fine.

How about a 300 H&H flanged or this round wildcatted to 7mm?

Can Doubles be used effectively for Western hunting or would such a Double be impractical/ridiculous?? Should the Double stay in the gun safe so the bolt actions can play??

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hoppdoc,

You did answer your own question(s)

The answer: "How about a 300 H&H flanged....?"

Well, how about it? 150 grs @ 2850fps, 180grs @ 2550, and 220grs @ 2250fps.

Very old but just right for your "new" idea.

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Hike the Grand Canyon, you will never be the same!

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