africa1
.224 member
Reged: 30/05/07
Posts: 13
Loc: ohio, USA
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Yesterday I shot some factory loads through the chrono.
458 wm
A Square 465 gr rn & monolithic. Published at 2220, actual 2215.
Hornady 500 gr rn & solid. Published at 2200, actual 2100.
Winchester 510 gr rn. Published at 2040, actual 1990.
338wm
A Square 250 gr rn & monolithic. Published at 2220, actual 2210.
Winchester 230 gr fail safe. Published at 2780, actual 2812.
Winchester 200 gr power point. Published at 2960, actual 2892.
338 shot through HS Precision bolt 26". 458 through Beretta double 24"' Five shot strings.
For what it is worth the A Square is my choice. The softs and solids hit to the same point in both calibers. The 338 Fail safe went through a 1/2" steel plate like armour piercing--a perfect round hole. Maybe not a good choice for game. It reminded me of Barnes triple Shock---too much penetration. I hope this is helpful.
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bigdog
.375 member
Reged: 05/02/06
Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois
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Sounds like the A Square loads are right on with the published data. So many companies tend to overstate their velocities by a wide margin so it looks good on the box.
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Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad
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AzGuy
.333 member
Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 388
Loc: Prescott, Arizona, USA
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africa1,
Welcome to the forum!!
Thanks for sharing the chrony info......Asquare seems to be very consistant.
How are they in terms of accuracy?
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africa1
.224 member
Reged: 30/05/07
Posts: 13
Loc: ohio, USA
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Arizona, Thanks for the welcome. The A Square 458 loads shot 1" groups at 50 and 80 meters out of my double. I am very lucky--my Beretta seems to shoot all factory loads well. The 338 A Square loads grouped at 1 1/2". The other loads came in at under 1". Superior sent me some 338 Woodleigh rn loads that also chrono at the published velocities and grouped at 1". Regards.
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400NitroExpress
.400 member
Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
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I wouldn't shoot A-Square monos in a double rifle of any description, new or old.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."
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africa1
.224 member
Reged: 30/05/07
Posts: 13
Loc: ohio, USA
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I have had no problems with the ammo. They hit like a sledghammer. What has been your personal experience that would deter me from further use? Regards
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400NitroExpress
.400 member
Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
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You need to read up on this issue. There's plenty of information available. Monometal bullets just aren't for double rifles. They can and do cause barrel damage. DR bullets need a compressable (lead) core.
The usual damage is overstressed rifling, and it's very common. A friend of mine who is constantly shopping for double rifles sends his "prospects" to his gunmaker before finalizing the deal. Two of the last four turned out to have overstressed rifling. I ruined one myself with Barnes X.
The problem with OSR is that, while the problem is well known, few actually know what it looks like. I know several very bright, experienced DR guys that have spent a lot of money on DRs without knowing that the barrels were damaged. This also leads many to believe that they've gotten away with it when they haven't.
Some believe that the problem is confined to older rifles, which isn't true. Some also believe that "banded" monometal designs (which the A-Square is not) are OK, which I think is wishful thinking.
The other common type of damage from monos is the barrel solder breaking loose.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."
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africa1
.224 member
Reged: 30/05/07
Posts: 13
Loc: ohio, USA
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Thanks for the tip .400. I will make some calls. Do you know of a gun maker whom I can call who does not recommend the Monolithic and its kindred designs? What are your thoughts on the Woodleigh solid? It seems like a good bullet and Superior does a nice job loading them. Regards.
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400NitroExpress
.400 member
Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
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J. J. Perodeau (580-237-7388), formerly of Marcel Thys in Liege, does a lot of DR work in the US, and sees a lot of messed up barrels. I spoke to him recently about one that he speculated may have had A-Square or similar ammo run through it.
Russell Wilkins at Holland & Holland in London.
Holland recommends the Woodleigh, and that's the only solid they use. It's the one that I use. Hornady is currently bringing back it's previous solid design, which is a gilding metal covered steel jacket design very similar to the Woodleigh. Since that bullet will also soon be available in the DR diameters and weights that I use, I will also be using it.
The 480 and 500 grain Woodleighs would be fine in a .458.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."
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africa1
.224 member
Reged: 30/05/07
Posts: 13
Loc: ohio, USA
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400, Thanks for this information. I am glad that I posted to start this thread. I will follow up with the persons you mentioned. Regards
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JPK
.375 member
Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
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Nothing wrong with a driving band mono bullet, imo. Look at North Fork. Their flat nose solid will move your 458wm double into a new league of performance - as it did mine.
JPK
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Gerard
.224 member
Reged: 12/06/05
Posts: 44
Loc: N/A
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"Nothing wrong with a driving band mono bullet"
Amen.
The caveat is that some bullets are called banded bullets when they are in fact grooved bullets. A true drive band bullet has a shank that is manufactured to the CIP bore diameter of a caliber with only the drive bands at barrel groove diameter. See this slide show that illustrates the difference. It is a pps file, takes about 10 minutes to download and must be viewed with MS PowerPoint.
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