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Hunting >> Hunting in Africa & hunting dangerous game
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Bakes
.375 member


Reged: 31/01/03
Posts: 589
Loc: QLD
.243 in Africa
      #7956 - 31/01/04 04:21 PM

Just finished reading a Boddington article, where he polled PH's in Africa about their choice of calibres. The .243 seemed quite popular, which I find surprising. Up my way, I wouldn't recommend the .243 for the big pigs that get about, thinking that the .25's with 120gr bullets as a min.
All in all and interesting read.

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mikeh416Rigby
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Reged: 24/02/03
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Loc: The beautiful Oley Valley, PA....
Re: .243 in Africa [Re: Bakes]
      #7961 - 31/01/04 06:39 PM

The .243 is favored by quite a few P.H.s in RSA for the smaller antelope like Springbok, Klipspringer, Steenbok, etc. A lot of them also like the .223 as well.

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Boghossian
.275 member


Reged: 23/01/04
Posts: 93
Re: .243 in Africa [Re: mikeh416Rigby]
      #7966 - 01/02/04 12:30 AM

I wouldn't take it as my only rifle, BUT on the other hand, animals like the klipspringer are realllly fragile and a .30 caliver will destroy alot of edible meat in the front shoulders. The .243 has cheap ammo too and is available locally in Africa too.

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470Nitro
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Reged: 17/09/03
Posts: 467
Loc: Madrid - Spain
Re: .243 in Africa [Re: Bakes]
      #7972 - 01/02/04 04:45 AM

I made a safari with a 22-250. I took some plains game like a couple of Tommies, grants, duiker, dik dik, ... but I also took a leopard with it. Why not a 243 W???

--------------------
-----
down by the river on a friday night
pyramid of cans in the pale moonlight
talkin' 'bout guns and dreamin 'bout women
never had a plan just a livin' for the minute

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shakari
.400 member


Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: .243 in Africa [Re: 470Nitro]
      #7981 - 01/02/04 08:01 AM

I'd have to disagree. A 243 might be a good rifle for culling at night here in Africa, but I'd surely hate to see a client pitch up with one for a hunt. Obviously it would be his choice, but it would almost guarantee that we would end up walking a lot on follow ups...... they'll work just fine if the correct bullet is used and if the client can shoot with pinpoint accuracy every time.....but who amongst us can claim to get the shot dead right 100% of the time.

I always (if asked) adivise clients to consider a .30 calibre as an absolute minimum calibre for African hunting.

Overseas hunters pay a shed load of hard earned money for a hunt so why risk having to pay for animals that might get lost when you all you're saving is a few hundred dollars for a suitable calibre.

As Bobby Ruark wrote, use enough gun.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



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Bakes
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Reged: 31/01/03
Posts: 589
Loc: QLD
Re: .243 in Africa [Re: shakari]
      #8005 - 01/02/04 02:12 PM

Shakari
I don't much like the .243 as I said for the boars and donkeys in the Territory I would suggest the 25's as a min, with the 25-06 as a better calibre over the Roberts, with 120gr bullets.

Now if I were to under take a African hunt, because of limited funds my choice of rifle would be my .416 Rigby (if it ever gets bloody finished ) and my 6.5x55 shooting 140 gr Woodleighs or X's. I've asked this question before on AR, but for the benifit of the members here, what do you think of the 6.5's for plains game.

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shakari
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Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: .243 in Africa [Re: Bakes]
      #8017 - 01/02/04 05:38 PM

Hi Bakes,

I'd put them in the catagory of "only just" As I said, anything under .30 cal is liable to make things more difficult....... and only bullets of 180 grains or heavier tend to get my (full) approval...... Of course lighter calibres will work, especially on smaller game, but you never know what you're going to see when you're hunting.

Your other choice of a .416 (or .375 H&H) would be a far better choice for all African hunting. Assuming a good bulet choice. It will shoot straight through the smaller antelope without damaging the cape any more than a .30 and it obviously copes brilliantly with the larger stuff such as Eland, Zebra & Wildebeest...... to say nothing of being able to use the same rifle on Dangerous Game.

I'm sure that some will say, well what about meat damage?... well, what about it. The hunter is paying a great deal of money to hunt trophies, and the meat damage consideration is irrelevant. There will still be plenty f good meat left, but more to the point there's far less chance of the animal running away and being lost.

I have a regular client and friend named Eddie Priscott who owns a company called Frogs Island 4x4 who hunted with a 25-06 last year. Eddie shoots like a demon and took some great trophies including some of the larger antelope, but we often had some challenging tracking jobs to find his trophies, and despite the fact thet he killed everything he shot at, most animals ran for some considerable distance. Even he at the end of the hunt, agreed with me that the calibre was a bit too light to be comfortable with.

Another regular client & friend is Peter Lang who shoots a .416. Peter also shoots very well indeed, and has hunted everything from the smaller antelope to Buffalo with me on various hunts and I doubt we've ever had to track any animal he's ever shot with me for more than 50 yards.

Tells it's own story doesn't it?

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



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iqbal
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Reged: 05/02/03
Posts: 778
Loc: Karachi,Pakistan
Re: .243 in Africa [Re: shakari]
      #8022 - 01/02/04 09:15 PM

Shakari,what about a .270,would it not be better than a 243 for the small game mentioned?I am a great fan of the 270 and have shot deer,ibex and horned sheep and also nilgai with this caliber without requiring a followup shot.I agree it is undersized for large game in Africa but it is definately better than a 243 for springbok,dikdik etc.Also i would like to know why a 7mm.mag. is not very popular in Africa.One PH told me that its too loud.Does that sound logical?

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Bakes
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Reged: 31/01/03
Posts: 589
Loc: QLD
Re: .243 in Africa [Re: shakari]
      #8025 - 02/02/04 01:21 AM

Thanks for your comments Shakari. I like my 6.5 and I'm confident with it. I think it would out penetrate the 270 and 7x57/7mm08 class of calibres. If I ever make it out your way I'll take your advice on board. Another calibre I like is the 8x57, I use this in a Mauser Verguerio, don't go much on the factory loads however, a good handload would be just the thing for Africa what do you think?

Hey while I've got you chatting, whats an African name for Zebra?

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shakari
.400 member


Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: .243 in Africa [Re: iqbal]
      #8028 - 02/02/04 02:29 AM

Iqbal, I've never shot a horned sheep, but I understand they're pretty damn tough and perhaps one day I'll be lucky enough to...... as long as I don't have to climb too many of your mountains I've heard so much about!

Yes the .270 is a better calibre than the 243 for Africa and it's also one of those calibres that seems to perform a lot better than it looks on paper, but I believe it's still slightly on the light side. I like to work on the principle that you never know when you're going to come across one of the bigger antelope etc, and any bullet lighter than about 180 grains (in any calibre) might cause problems.... having said that, I believe that most hunters let their interest in ballistics lead them straight into the arms of the gundealer....... We often see clients pitch up for a plains game hunt with 3 or even 4 rifles, and quite honestly, they don't need them. I'm not saying they don't enjoy using them , just that they are unnecessary. They see an animal in the bush and by the time they've buggered about sorting out which rifle they're going to use the animal is long gone. All any hunter really needs to bring on a safari is 1 rifle and 2 at the very most. You probably know the old saying of "beware the man with one rifle.... because he can use it well" A .375 or .416 will kill any animal in Africa if the man behind it knows how to use it.

Bakes: As to loads, I personally love reloading and rate a handloaded round with a good bullet choice as unbeatable. My personal choice for all plains game is 180 grain Win Silvertip in any .30 calibre. It's an old round, but it's about the only bullet I have NEVER seen fail..... it's also like stepping up a calibre in it's effect..... but I'm sure that a lot of people out there who don't agree and I look forward to many years of campfire discussions about it..... I've even used them and seen them used in .375 H&H on Buffalo bulls and they performed bloody well.

There's not really an African word for Zebra as each tribe has it's own language/dialect. But the Zulu call it E'tobi pronounced Eh- toh-bee and in Swahili it's Punda Milia, pronounced Poondah Meeliah. Both roughly translate into meaning donkey in pyjamas. Africa has a wide variety of languages, but if you can speak a bit of Zulu, Sawahili & English then you can make yourself understood pretty much anywhere in Africa

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



Edited by shakari (02/02/04 04:39 AM)

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atkinson6
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Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: .243 in Africa [Re: shakari]
      #8040 - 02/02/04 09:24 AM

I have culled a lot of Springbok, Blesbok with the 6x45 and the 75gr. Barnes X bullet and it works fine...I have shot a number of mule deer and pronghorn antelope with it, but I had to modify my hunting methods to meet the capabilities of the gun, I expect the same applies to the .243...It is popular in Africa as is the 6x45...

But I will have to agree with Shakari on this one, I personally wouldn't recommend either 6mm for the American hunting Africa, and would strongly suggest a 30-06 and up, the 300s and 338s being the best for an all around plainsgame rifles,...This does not mean that anyone who wishes to shoot a lesser caliber can not, thats up to them, not me.....I don't care what anyone uses if they are confident and happy with it.....

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Gibbs505
.333 member


Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 442
Loc: BC, Canada
Re: .243 in Africa [Re: Bakes]
      #8042 - 02/02/04 09:43 AM

Don't have a 243, but I do have a 6.5 x 55 that I just love to shoot. Also have a 375 H & H and a 505 Gibbs. If I was to show up with my 505, what would you say for a second rifle. I shoo mostly Hornady's in the 375 and they shoot pretty good. I gather that you would not like me to show up with my 303 smle though!!

--------------------
So I can't spell, so what?

Those who beat their swords into ploughshares, will plough for those who don't!

Those who fail to learn from history will be doomed to repeat it

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Bakes
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Reged: 31/01/03
Posts: 589
Loc: QLD
Re: .243 in Africa [Re: shakari]
      #8049 - 02/02/04 12:49 PM

Thanks for the Zulu word Steve, that just what I need to know. I have a white holden ute that I'm thinking of painting zebra stripes on. E'tobi will fit nicely on the number plate I'll post some pics when I finish it.

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shakari
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Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: .243 in Africa [Re: Gibbs505]
      #8056 - 02/02/04 03:35 PM

Gibbs505,

The .375 H&H is a great calibre for any client to use on everything from Duiker to Elephant, and the .505 is even better for Dangerous Game.....I carry a .500 Jeffrey myself as my chargestopper..

I'd like to hear more of the .505.... do you have open sights or a scope on it? and what sort of range do you shoot it out to?

303s are still popular here with the local hunters, but has a bad reputation amongst PHs...... I think largely due to the people who use it.....A lot of the meat hunters try for head shots and wind up wounding (and losing) their quarry. Then the next PH into the area has to spend time cleaning up their mistakes

Bakes, sounds like a great idea....don't forget to post the pics! I thought about a private plate on my Landrover with my Zulu name on it, but decided they'd all be falling about laughing every time I drove through town.......you see, Zulu names are not normally very flattering, and mine means shortarse!!!

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



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Bakes
.375 member


Reged: 31/01/03
Posts: 589
Loc: QLD
Re: .243 in Africa [Re: shakari]
      #8067 - 03/02/04 12:19 AM

I was just going to ask you what it ment

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Gibbs505
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Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 442
Loc: BC, Canada
Re: .243 in Africa [Re: shakari]
      #8371 - 07/02/04 06:00 AM

Hi there I have just recently had the 505 assembled on a P14 action. The barrel was made by a Mr Bevan King who had been recommended to me by a Calgary gunsmith. He also did all the action work. The stock and finishing work was done by Bills Guns in Burns Lake BC. I am very happy with the rifle.
When I had the action work done I specified a peep sight as best to go with my eyesight!!
I can send you a jpeg if you end your email address.

--------------------
So I can't spell, so what?

Those who beat their swords into ploughshares, will plough for those who don't!

Those who fail to learn from history will be doomed to repeat it

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shakari
.400 member


Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: .243 in Africa [Re: Gibbs505]
      #8374 - 07/02/04 06:28 AM

Well, I never turn down the chance to see a good rifle! my address is at the bottom of this post.

Please let us know how it shoots when you finally go out to play with it. The .500s are really dramatic when it comes to stopping charges, so I know you won't be disappointed with it. They're also better for long shots than I ever imagined....... I took a shot last year in Tanzania (over open sights) at a wounded & running wilderbeest and it went down like a sack of coal......I've gotta admit that it was a very lucky shot as I don't reckon I'm as good as it looked..... the range was just over 300 yards!!!..... the only person more suprised than the client and trackers was me!

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



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Gibbs505
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Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 442
Loc: BC, Canada
Re: .243 in Africa [Re: shakari]
      #8379 - 07/02/04 07:43 AM

Hope that you get the pic's OK


--------------------
So I can't spell, so what?

Those who beat their swords into ploughshares, will plough for those who don't!

Those who fail to learn from history will be doomed to repeat it

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Ndumo
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Reged: 21/12/03
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Loc: Namibia
Re: .243 in Africa [Re: Bakes]
      #8897 - 13/02/04 06:06 AM

I use my .243 mostly for culling springbok and blesbok, and practical rifle competitions. I have used it on bigger game, but hesitantly, in an emergency. If an overseas hunter visits the Karoo or Freestate of South Africa, or southern Namibia and Botswana, and he / she wants to shoot a lot of small game, why not a .243W? It is much easier to shoot well than even a '06, nevermind a .300 mag. of some sort. Using even comparatively weak bullets like Nosler 95gr. Ballistic tips or Hornady Interlocks of 100gr., it is a very reliable killer. On the 6.5x55-- I had a 6.5x57 that I use to loan to clients to shoot game with, up to and including blue wildebeest. I cannot remember when last someone using it for that purpose did not offer to buy it off me after the hunt. I recently gave in to pressure from a friend, but are already building a new 6.5 for the same purpose as before. It is propably the most underrated caliber in the world. The only wounded animal I can remember, was a blue wildebeest shot too far back by a New Zealand rugbyplayer. We did manage to kill it eventually, once again with the 6.5mm. I have loaned out my 7x64, 8x57 and 8x68 as well, but most preferred trhe 6.5.

--------------------
Karl Stumpfe
Ndumo Hunting Safaris (Pty) Ltd.
karl@huntingsafaris.net
www.huntingsafaris.net
+264 811 285 416

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