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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Scoped Double Regulation!!
      #79543 - 29/05/07 07:13 AM

Mac had excellent comments on Double regulation from a previus post--
Take a barrel set from a double rifle, and lock them in a padded vise, with the sights on target at the distance it was regulated for. Then place two empty cartridge cases , without primers, in the chambers, then look through the primer holes, like a PEEP-SITE. What you will see is, the RIGHT barrel will be looking at a point to the LEFT of the POA, and LOW , and vise-versa for the left barrel! This is necessary because when the RIGHT barrel is fired, the rifle will rise up, and to the right, and again the left barrel will do the opposite, and the amount of time the bullet stays in the barrel durring recoil, will dirrectly effect the POA on the target, at a given distance! If the load is too slow, the group will be high & wide, if too fast it will be low, and crossed. Change anything in the load, or the weight, and ballance of the double rifle, and you will likely open, or close, and the composite group be high or low!

Ant pearls on regulating a SCOPED Double with a lighter faster bullet?? I am thinking of trying my 500 NE with a 2x red dot at 75-100 yds.I understand the weight of the scope may affect the regulation by more weight and ??lower the bullet paths due to decreased time in the barrels.

Any pearls besides loading up some 540gr GS solids and blasting away?

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An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Scoped Double Regulation!! [Re: hoppdoc]
      #79548 - 29/05/07 09:40 AM

As NE450no2 so kindly noted in a prior post I morphed to the present one starting with a similar charge for a heavier bullet and working up the same charge for a lighter similar bullet should work without pressure problems in a Double.
Great idea and a great place to start when shooting a lighter bullet and save a lot of time!!

It seems that regulating a scoped Double is a whole different game than a bolt.In the bolt you shot the bullet then adjusted the scope to "move" the bullet, but you are just chasing the bullet in reverse.Do that in a Double at distance you could get screwed cause you will have one barrel hitting one barrels scoped POI and the other barrel possibly way off for that short range regulated load.Ideally a great regulated load at distance should work at close range but not necessarily the reverse.
Am I correct here or confused??

In a Double shot at distance it would seems you want to get the crosshairs where the fixed sights aim and then possibly adjust that cross hair a fixed amount depending on the flight path of the bullet for a zero at distance.In reality you are raising each barrel POI to hit spot on at some distance. For a 500NE 100 yds the bullet fall is 1.2 inches above the POI of each barrel at 50 yds, an insignifigant amount.For higher velocity rounds at further distances more elevation would need to be dialed in.This assumes the scope is taken off at closer ranges for iron sights or POI varies.
You would have both options like a bolt gun with fixed sightsand a long range scope.

The better and easier alternative surely seems to leave the crosshairs at the zero distance and holdover the target an appropriate amount!!!

Am I correct here or flawed in my thinking??

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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NE450No2
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Reged: 10/01/03
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Re: Scoped Double Regulation!! [Re: hoppdoc]
      #79556 - 29/05/07 11:30 AM

hoppdoc
One thing I have discovered with my 75% rule is that the 2 loads have nearly the same trajectory.

Look in a Hornady manual at their 500gr bullet at 2100fps and their 350 gr bullet at 2300fps.

You will see out to 300 yards their trajectories are nearly identical, for hunting purposes.

My full weight loads in my 450/400 [400gr bullets] and in my 450 No2 [480 and 500gr bullets] travel at 2100 to 2200fps. My 75% bullets [300 gr in the 400 and 350gr in the 450 No2] travel about 2330fps.

If they hit the same place at 100 yards [and they do] then they will hit the same place [close enough for hunting] at 300 yards, and they do.

My Nitro for Black loads in my 450 No2 hit the same place as full power loads at 50 yards but since their velocity is reduced their trajectory is not the same at 100 and out.

I have found it much easier to get different bullets to hit the same place with a double than a bolt rifle.

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Rustyzipper
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Reged: 20/10/03
Posts: 83
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Re: Scoped Double Regulation!! [Re: hoppdoc]
      #79557 - 29/05/07 11:31 AM

Hoppdoc. What is an Ant pearl? Do you mean pearls of wisdom? POA? RZ

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NMLRA Life, NRA Annual,DRSS, .......

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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Scoped Double Regulation!! [Re: Rustyzipper]
      #79566 - 29/05/07 09:11 PM

Sorry-- I meant pearls of wisdom!!

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An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Scoped Double Regulation!! [Re: hoppdoc]
      #79568 - 29/05/07 09:33 PM

The fascinating thing about regulating a scoped Double is you may ideally wish the left barrel slightly to the left of the scopes crosshairs at distance and the right barrel slightly to the right!! Two side by side POI with one approximate crosshair point for both!Wild vs a bolt where the crosshairs are directly on the POI at distance!!!

With an O/U in theory I guess you would want one bullet POI hitting over and one hitting under your crosshairs at distance!! Weird!
Maybe better to shoot the lower barrel first at distance per dnovo's suggestion??

Sorry for all the posts on my own thread--just thinking out loud!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (29/05/07 09:43 PM)

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NE450No2
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Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: Scoped Double Regulation!! [Re: hoppdoc]
      #79573 - 29/05/07 11:40 PM

There is also one other option, probably most useful on scoped doubles of 9,3 and under.

If you will be hunting in an area where long shots will be the norm, and your left and right bbl shots hit farther from each other than you would like you could sight in your scope for the most accurate bbl at a distance say 200 to 250 yards.
Up close ie out to 150 yards your right and left bbl groups should still be close enough to hit a game animal, but if faced with a long shot you know you the one bbl will hit point of aim.

In fact if you have a good scope you should do this at the range so in the field you can adjust for the longer shots if necessary.This adds to the huntability of a double rifle, and can give you a little more comfidence if making a longer range shot.

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Shanster
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Reged: 02/10/06
Posts: 73
Loc: Seattle WA
Re: Scoped Double Regulation!! [Re: NE450No2]
      #79613 - 31/05/07 01:06 AM

So why wouldnt you just get a custom reticule for your scope with both points of impact?
http://www.premierreticles.com/PDF/sample1.pdf
It is only money most of us that can buy a 10k and up rifle a custom reticule scope and a rangefinder should be pocket change.
Shan

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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Scoped Double Regulation!! [Re: Shanster]
      #79637 - 31/05/07 07:26 AM

Innovative approach!! It has possibilities!!

Now if we could get 2 reticles side by side in the same field for those 300yd seperate barrel POI's--

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An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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