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dnovo
.333 member


Reged: 21/02/05
Posts: 490
Loc: Chicago & SE Wisconsin
Janssen DR and some questions
      #77018 - 19/04/07 11:12 PM

A dealer that I have purchased from in the past told me he had taken in a 1928 Belgium built double, "let me send it to you and keep it if you like and send me a check or the rifle back." The asking price was virtually nill for what was described so I said sure.

What showed up was a, well 'petite' would be the best word to use, DR. Marked on the full length and fully (and well executed) matted rib was a panel that says "Janssen Fils & Co., Liege Belgium." The rifle is marked on the barrel flats as Nitro proofed, built/proofed in 1928, and chambered in ".360-21/4" Express." 28" nicely tapered barrels, sidleclips, Greener- style bolt, ejector, splinter forend, one fixed, two folding leaves, and something I rarely see on a double, a ladder with the slider from 50 to 400 ahead of the fixed/folding leaf sights. Very nice case colors, scroll engraved (about 70%) and while the barrels may have been reblacked sometime in the not recent past, the receiver and the case colors look original and are mostly all there with only a tad of fading and no wear on the engraving.

Needless to say, I grabbed it. However, I can't seem to find anything about the builder. Any information any of you might have would be appreciated. Also, I am a bit puzzled by the choice of cartridge, which is clearly the original chambering based on even a cursory inspection.

I have seen a number of 360 No. 2s, but the 360-21/4" Express was a much older cartridge, a hangover 'converted' BP and then BPE load, and not that common (as I understand it) in the time frame when this rifle was built. I could be wrong on this (and I generally don't know my butt from a hot rock on most subjects) so any light any of you could shed on this would help me deal with a puzzling aspect of an otherwise very nice and very 'appropriate' acquistion.

'Appropriate' since this DR was obvioulsy built for light game use. The rifle is perfectly proportioned for a light caliber such as the 360-21/4" Express, looking like a 28ga shotgun at first glance, and even more so when I stood it next to one of my 28ga doubles last night. Barrel length and LOP are about right for someone of average build who wanted a very light and handy DR for small game in Europe or Africn plains use, but again, why so obscure and virtually obsolete cartridge choice?

I have a Webley & Scott DR boxlock in 250-3000 Savage (and it is also an original chambering with the contemporaneous markings "250 Savage H.P. Cartridge" on the rib between the barrels and in the paperwork) of the same approximate vintage, there are a lot of DRs in 303, 400 Purdey, etc. Hell, there were a slew of other light shooting and flatter shooting rimmed cartridges to choose from in 1928, so why something so obscure in a rifle otherwise so obviously so carefully tailored and executed as a light game rifle and not something to be used at short range? Why not pick a flatter shooting cartridge or one easier (and cheaper) to shoot?

Inquiring minds would like to know. (Okay, this one, anyhow.)

I look forward to any thoughts you may have.

Thanks

Dave

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels


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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: Janssen DR and some questions [Re: dnovo]
      #77231 - 23/04/07 01:32 AM

Dave,

I have seen some A D Janssen and Janssen & Fils shotguns and I might have some information somewhere. Will try and find it for you. In the meantime, our Belgian members may have something...

In India the former French Enclaves of Pondicherry, Mahe Karaikal, Yanam and Chandranagore all turn up French and Belgian guns and there are more than a few Janssen guns around. In the meantime, there is a French language website which has more than a little information on the different Janssen companies at: http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/art...%20cie%20fr.htm

It is quite straightforward if you read French, but, if you need any assistance with translation, I could try with my broken French if our French and Belgian members are too busy.

Best wishes and do post pictures of your guns whenever you find time. Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Janssen DR and some questions [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #77234 - 23/04/07 03:44 AM


Couple of Janssen guns over here as well. From memory
I know of 2 in 405 Winchester.

I think the word "petite" is a good description.

For what they are and where they are normally priced,
I think they are often a good buy for someone either
getting into a low cost DR or where a "small" or smaller calibre is wanted. They are nothing flash but certainly
seem to be reasonably well built.

Don't underestimate the 360 cartridge.


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dnovo
.333 member


Reged: 21/02/05
Posts: 490
Loc: Chicago & SE Wisconsin
Re: Janssen DR and some questions [Re: 500Nitro]
      #77241 - 23/04/07 08:11 AM

Thank both of you for your responses. I never underestimate the fun you can have with a smaller caliber DR. I was out shooting today and, as always, whenever I take out my Webley & Scott in 250 Savage, I relish in low recoil, great accuracy, and low cost shooting fun. (There is a whole lot of inexpensively-priced 250 Savage for sale and even handloaded, most of the larger DR cartidges are far more expensive.)

Now all I need is to find a few loads to make up for the 360-2 1/4" and I'll 'take a shot' with the Janssen. Dave (P.S. Thanks for the website link. I'll get by with Babelfish for the time being.)

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels

Edited by dnovo (23/04/07 08:13 AM)


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Janssen DR and some questions [Re: dnovo]
      #77243 - 23/04/07 08:30 AM


dnovo

What is the load on the proof marks ?

I think loads are available in Graeme Wrights book.


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dnovo
.333 member


Reged: 21/02/05
Posts: 490
Loc: Chicago & SE Wisconsin
Re: Janssen DR and some questions [Re: 500Nitro]
      #77246 - 23/04/07 08:54 AM

Thanks 500, heading downstairs to the rifle and will check. The book is sitting on the other side of the room, so I will check that next -- well, tomorrow as I have a little something called an oral arugument tomorrow so since I spent most of the day shooting and cleaning guns, I head back 'to work' for the rest of the evening. Dave

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels


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Husky
.224 member


Reged: 23/01/06
Posts: 1
Re: Janssen DR and some questions [Re: dnovo]
      #77365 - 25/04/07 05:02 AM

Hi,
I also own a Janssen Fils & Co, the rifle is chambered for the .333 Jeffery Flanged Cartridge.
currently, the rifle is having a tune up at my gunsmith. It shoots quite well and i like it.



Husky


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dnovo
.333 member


Reged: 21/02/05
Posts: 490
Loc: Chicago & SE Wisconsin
Re: Janssen DR and some questions [Re: Husky]
      #77370 - 25/04/07 07:03 AM

Nice gun, nice picture. Looks quite a bit like my gun, down to the sideclips and Greener-stlye lock (although the bolt on mine is a bit more squared off.) Dave

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels

Edited by dnovo (25/04/07 07:11 AM)


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