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275
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Reged: 24/01/04
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9.3 X 74R Double Rifle
      #7650 - 29/01/04 03:44 AM

...would be very interested in hearing of anyone's experiences/impressions of this calibre in Africa, how useful it might be, and where it generally might 'fit in' in the scheme of things...(Not strictly a '375 & up'-forgive me!)

Thanks chaps

Michael


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470Nitro
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Re: 9.3 X 74R Double Rifle [Re: 275]
      #7651 - 29/01/04 04:10 AM

I used an Over & Under double on my first buffalo hunt several years ago. On this safari I was charged by a cow and the gun didn't stopped her (I took the bullet on the boss). I was lucky 'cos the PH used a 500 NE and he did it right. I bought a 470NE as soon I arrived to Europe .

Even a .375 H&H is too "short" to hunt buffs, hippos or elephants, at least a .416 should be used to hunt safely. That's my opinion .

--------------------
-----
down by the river on a friday night
pyramid of cans in the pale moonlight
talkin' 'bout guns and dreamin 'bout women
never had a plan just a livin' for the minute


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275
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Re: 9.3 X 74R Double Rifle [Re: 470Nitro]
      #7660 - 29/01/04 05:05 AM

Using solids, I presume?

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DUGABOY1
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Re: 9.3 X 74R Double Rifle [Re: 470Nitro]
      #7662 - 29/01/04 05:19 AM

In reply to:

I used an Over & Under double on my first buffalo hunt several years ago. On this safari I was charged by a cow and the gun didn't stopped her (I took the bullet on the boss).




470Nitro, I'm sorry for your unfortunet placement of the bullet into the boss on your first Cape Buffalo. With that shot, the 470NE might not have stopped her either, however!The boss can turn some pretty heavy calibers, if the angle is right!

In reply to:

I was lucky 'cos the PH used a 500 NE and he did it right.




You WERE lucky, but not because the PH had a 500NE, but because, as you say, "HE DID IT RIGHT"!

In reply to:

Even a .375 H&H is too "short" to hunt buffs, hippos or elephants, at least a .416 should be used to hunt safely. That's my opinion .




That is an opinion for sure! And it is mine as well where Elephant is on the minue, but I've taken many Buffalo, and Hippo with a 375H&H, and the only one shot kills I've had on Buffalo, have been with a 375H&H with a 300 gr Nosler Partition, unless the brain, or spine was hit. All others have taken at least three shots,again unless the brain or spine was hit, regardles of caliber, or bullet used.

I do think the 9.3X74R is light for anything, bigger, or harder to kill than Eland in very close quarters, and I wouldn't reccomend the little 9.3X74R double, as the best thing, when hunting the "BITE BACKS",for someone who I didn't know, but I would have no problem,myself, hunting Buffalo, or cats, with nothing other than a good S/S double rifle chambered for 9.3X74R, with proper bullets! In fact, the next time I go to Africa, I'm going to take my 9.3X74R Merkel S/S double rifle, with some Woodliegh 320 gr solids, and softs to hunt Buffalo, and Leopard!

Is this little cartridge for everyone? NO!, but it isn't the wimp most think it is, if you "DO IT RIGHT", that is!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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ThomasEdwards
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Re: 9.3 X 74R Double Rifle [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #7664 - 29/01/04 05:34 AM

dugaboy1,

...appreciate your post and field advice on the 9.3...other commentators (j. taylor, g. woods, gayana, etc.) echo your views on the suitability of the 9.3 for most game (including some dg) if done properly...

te


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275
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Re: 9.3 X 74R Double Rifle [Re: 275]
      #7667 - 29/01/04 05:58 AM

...& it'd be interesting to hear from them, too. I'm trying to buy my first double rifle at the mo-a 9.3, and although I'm primarily thinking of it for boar shooting on the continent, it'd be useful to know what use it may be in Africa.(I have shot quite a bit of game in my time & a considerable number of double rifles to boot, so please don't think I'm a COMPLETE amateur!) I'm well aware that there are more suitable bores for larger game, and eland was as large as I'd thought of, I'd just like to hear from people with experience with the round. I'm a great believer (within reason) of if you hit it in the right place, it's not going to be happy, but would not venture forth with a 9.3 thinking I was perfectly armed for heffalump!

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ThomasEdwards
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Re: 9.3 X 74R Double Rifle [Re: 275]
      #7671 - 29/01/04 06:10 AM

...my apologies for not clarifying, the commentators' recommendations were prooffered vicariously (j. taylor - african rifles & cartridges (safari press); g. woods - rifles for africa (safari press); gayana (african-hunter.com)...

...imho, the beauty of a 9.3 double is the flexibility you are able to achieve (o/u or s/s; scoped or fixed sights, extra smooth bore barrels in 20 or 28 bore, etc.)...and the ability to carry but a single kit for both gaming and birding purposes...

...a previous post indicated that you are - or were - with rigbys' london or p. roberts?...

te


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470Nitro
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Re: 9.3 X 74R Double Rifle [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #7672 - 29/01/04 06:28 AM

Everybody knows that if you put any bullet in the right place, the animal will die . I'd killed more than 50 buff, almost them with a .375 (still have it), and I know they die better with a bigger caliber than a .416, that's for sure .
I'd been charged for a leopard, a Lion, even a Rino and I don't want a "small" gun while hunting Africa (May be, some day I'll write to you some stories ).

Now I got a double Merkel 9.3x74R for boars and Red deers, I like a lot this caliber, but I won't use it again on Africa with any of the big fives. I got better guns for that, don't you??

--------------------
-----
down by the river on a friday night
pyramid of cans in the pale moonlight
talkin' 'bout guns and dreamin 'bout women
never had a plan just a livin' for the minute


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luv2safari
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Re: 9.3 X 74R Double Rifle [Re: 275]
      #7688 - 29/01/04 08:28 AM

I love the caliber and have used it on buffalo...but wouldn't again. No horror stories; I just felt under-gunned and was sure happy to have a PH there with a stopper.

It worked twice without problems. I'll be using a 375 or a 416 Rigby this September...probably the 416...does this tell you anything?

The 9,3x62 and 9,3x74 are great plains game calibers to about 250 yards, and I use the 9,3x74r on Elk, Moose, and Hogs here in the US.

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics


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mickey
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Re: 9.3 X 74R Double Rifle [Re: luv2safari]
      #7706 - 29/01/04 10:21 AM

I also have and use a 9.3x74R. I have never shot a Cape Buffalo with it but have shot 30 plus Zebras, and handful of Kudu and Gemsbok a couple of Warthogs, some Springbok and about a dozen Red Hartebeast.

I love it. A very nice, light and quick package with a Zeiss 1.75x6 in Claw mounts. Scope and all at 8 pounds. You should be able to get a nice Brit 400/360 that is rechambered for a decent price, can't you?

I think it is a little light for Buffalo but if I had no choice it would be able to do it I think.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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DUGABOY1
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Re: 9.3 X 74R Double Rifle [Re: 470Nitro]
      #7711 - 29/01/04 10:55 AM

In reply to:

Everybody knows that if you put any bullet in the right place, the animal will die . I'd killed more than 50 buff, almost them with a .375 (still have it), and I know they die better with a bigger caliber than a .416, that's for sure .




470Nitro, that 50 head of Buffalo bag would put you ahead of me some, but I think they die the same way in bags of 10 to 15, as they do in bags of 50! Saeed, over at AR, has taken an excess of 90 Bufflao,and 12 elephant,and hundreds of plains game, all with a .375, without incident, so the number of kills is not an indicator, in my view. I think Saeed would have killed just as many if he had been useing a 9.3X74R rifle. In the above case it is the man who is lethal, not the rifle! He simply stays calm, and puts those 375 bullets where they belong!

However, as I said, I do NOT reccomend the 9.3X74R in a double, or single barrel rifle, as top of the line for the big five. However if that is all the man has, and it is legal where he is going to hunt, then I can't tell him it will not work, because it will,If he does his part!

If he had asked what I would reccomend, then I would have told him to use the biggest thing he could handle, with some modicom of proficiency, that was legal !

For most client hunters, especially on a first Safari, a bolt rifle, with CRF, in the 375 H&H with a combination of 300 gr softs, and solids, or something like a 416 Taylor, or 416 Remington, with a combination of 400 gr softs, and solids, and practice, practice, practice, till he can shoot it in his sleep! I find that a person can handle a 9.3/375/416 class better than the .450 class rifles in the begining! I think the 9.3X74R, or 375 flanged double rifle is just about perfect for the cats over bait, or even follow up on Leopard. For Buffalo, Hippo, and the large Eland, the 9.3s are for the very experienced, not the beginer! Gregor Wood, with 30 years of uninterupted time in the African bush, thinks the 9.3X74R in a light double rifle is about perfect for following up,on wounded cats! I'm not sure I agree wholely with that opinion, but then he has thousands of head of African game under his belt, and there are those numbers again!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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NE450No2
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Re: 9.3 X 74R Double Rifle [Re: 275]
      #7729 - 29/01/04 01:42 PM

I have a 9,3x74R Chapuis double rifle. I love it. It is my favorite rifle UNDER 40 caliber. The key phrase here is UNDER 40 CALIBER. While I agree that the 9,3 will kill Buff... If you are buying a double FOR buff, get at least a 450/400.
I am taking my 450 No2 and my 9,3 Chapuis to Zim in June. I consider my self well armed. If the 450 "lays down" I will continue with the 9,3. It will do the job if necessary.


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275
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Re: 9.3 X 74R Double Rifle [Re: ThomasEdwards]
      #7761 - 29/01/04 09:37 PM

TE@~: I do indeed have that privilege! Have access to some pretty interesting kit, just don't own it unfortunately!

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mstarling
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Re: 9.3 X 74R Double Rifle [Re: 275]
      #7768 - 30/01/04 01:54 AM

I am fortunate enough to have acquired a Chapuis in scoped 9.3x74R with a set of 20 gauge barrels. Lovely combination. Does a fine job on white tails. Great setup for quail, chukkar and pheasant. Pig hunting with it this coming weekend in Texas. Going to take it to RSA as the second gun for plains game in May.

Expect it to be perfect for the appointed task. Would not take it for dangerous game ... would be much more comfortable with the usual DG equipment (.375 H&H, .416 Rigby, or a .470 NE double rifle).

No magic here, but a great (if expensive) choice for reasoned use.

mike


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pmartin
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Re: 9.3 X 74R Double Rifle [Re: mstarling]
      #7895 - 31/01/04 07:27 AM

I've used a Beretta Sable 9.3x74 as the light rifle on three trips to Africa -- two to Zimbabwe and one to CAR -- and will take it back in April to CAR. It knocks over everything from Impala up to Zebra, Western Roan and Hartebeest. The thing is deadly out to 150 yards or so -- almost everything shot with it has been a one-shot kill. And it is a great deer gun for the New England woods.

It is not really a dangerous game round, though. It will do in a pinch with solids, but for buffalo I use a .500/.450, which the tracker carries if we're hunting plains game.

Peter Martin


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atkinson6
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Re: 9.3 X 74R Double Rifle [Re: pmartin]
      #7986 - 01/02/04 09:45 AM

I have seen the 9.3x74 used on several buffalo and it worked fine...but I would probably not want to wade into the high grass after a wounded bull with one given a choice.....

I do not think the really big bores kill buffalo any better than a 416 Rigby, Remington or 404.... I place a lot of emphasis on shot placement as the main criterior...I have seen two instances wherein a a 500 NE and a 470 NE took 9 and 13 shots respectively to kill a buffalo and I have those kills on film....

I know that shooting them in the boss will not stop them with any caliber and I have shot considerably more than 50 buffalo, so now you have another perspective....I have shot Buffalo with a 458 Lott, 505 Gibbs, 450-400, 8x57, 7x57, 308, 470, 9.3x64, 9.3x62, 416 Rigby, 416 Rem, 375 and 30-06. maybe a few others....

The older I get and the more big game I shoot then the more I am convienced that shot placement and bullet integrity are the two most important condiments to killing any animal, caliber rate about 3rd...

I do feel that the fear factor is sometimes a driving force to make folks shoot the larger bores and this is not good reasoning, one should shoot whatever rifle he can shoot comfortably in "ANY position" and he must be truly honest with himself, albiet that is seldom the case with real big bore shooters, once that fear becomes realistic and they realize that the possibles are not likely of an injury, they overcome that fear and most cut back to something that they can shoot, This is not an applicable analogy to all people and some just love to shoot big bores, and a few can even do it....

Now the above is only my opinnion and is in stark conflict with many on these internet board posters and thats OK, varied opinnions never hurt a good discussion....


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ThomasEdwards
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Re: 9.3 X 74R Double Rifle [Re: atkinson6]
      #8006 - 01/02/04 02:21 PM

atkinson6,

...really appreciate your post...now don't feel too bad about possibly taking a 9.3x74r double to tanz. this summer, as opposed to my heavier, bulkier turnbolts in .416 rigby and .458win.mag...

te


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luv2safari
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Re: 9.3 X 74R Double Rifle [Re: atkinson6]
      #8009 - 01/02/04 03:41 PM

Ray,

You hit the nail square on the head. And, with all the great new bullets now on the market, the smaller calibers are as, if not more so, deadly than many of the old standard heavy calibers with their older and inferior bullets.

I'll wager that a 450/400 of many years ago is no more of a stopper than a 338 of today with some of the new bullets.

My 9,3's are quite deadly with the newer and fantastic Woodleighs!

Now, I'll duck out of fire...

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics


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Sunshine
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Re: 9.3 X 74R Double Rifle [Re: 275]
      #8358 - 07/02/04 01:33 AM

Dr. Kevin Robertson (Doctari) vet and PH, author of 'The Perfect Shot', killed more than 600 buffalo with a 9,3 X 62; calibre is ballistically identical with a 9,3 X 74 R.

If you are unable to kill a buffalo with a 9,3 a big bore won't help either.


Sunshine

www.kapstadt.de/lemberg


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Will
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Re: 9.3 X 74R Double Rifle [Re: Sunshine]
      #8359 - 07/02/04 01:49 AM

I doubt that statistic.

--------------------
_________________________________________________
Bill Stewart

Once you have been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun.


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luv2safari
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Re: 9.3 X 74R Double Rifle [Re: Will]
      #8360 - 07/02/04 02:13 AM

The 9,3x62 was the principle rifle issued to game rangers throughout southern and eastern Africa at one time, and probably more game has been taken with the 9,3 than with any other single caliber...the 303 is right in there, too.

A former park ranger form Zimbabwe that I know culled elephant and buffalo for twenty five years with the 9,3x62...several hundred elephant and possibly a thousand buffalo over that period. The factory ballistics for the 9.3x62 and the 9,3x74r are identical.

There are also statistics available for those who would like to find them. The 9,3 is one of those calibers which, like the 375, kills all out of proportion to its size. These men shooting them were far better shots and knew their quarry much better than you or I, I'll wager.

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics


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LickiLovac
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Re: 9.3 X 74R Double Rifle [Re: luv2safari]
      #151768 - 25/01/10 04:06 PM

i own merkel double rifle, my father took many games with it, last year he took kodiak bear well over 1000 pounds with 9.3x74r , norma 232 grain vulkan at 70 yards

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