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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns
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xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
H&H rook rifle
      #76327 - 13/04/07 04:33 AM

This question is directed toward British and Commonwealth members, who presumably are in the best position to answer it:

I have in my possession a lovely little H&H rook rifle, a break action, double under lug model, originally 297/250 caliber, but later relined to .22 lr, as pictured on page 62 of Austyn's Modern Sporting Guns. The rifle has been mutilated by having the stock shortened, the barrel shortened, and seven holes drilled in the rib, two of which have been inexpertly plugged, and one of which is out of line with the others. I have had the rifle for over 30 years, and have been in a quandry over what to do with it.

My question is this: how large a cartridge and how much pressure was this action desgned to handle? The action is certainly overkill for the puny cartridge it was manufactured for, but would it be limited to something on the order of .22 Hornet, or could it accomodate a .22 Savage HiPower or .25-35 Winchester, for example?

Then a question for the American members: who in this country is qualified to carry out the conversion on this nice little rifle?

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: H&H rook rifle [Re: xausa]
      #76333 - 13/04/07 04:57 AM


XAUSA

My opinion

.22 Hornet - probably
.22 Savage HiPower - I would say too high pressure
.25-35 Winchester - I'll leave it to others to answer


These are great little guns to use.

IMHO, If the barrel has been sleeved (or Parkerised by Parker Hale), I would leave it in a .22 calibre of some sort. This may also prevent you from safely opening up the chamber.

Good luck.

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peter
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Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: H&H rook rifle [Re: 500Nitro]
      #76467 - 14/04/07 07:05 AM

HI xausa

im new to this site but this i have some knowlegede of. i have a few conversions on rook rifles in the past year, over here in the north europe we reline the barrel and chamber them to a new norma caliber made for old combination rifles and break top rifles like yours.

its callede a 6x70 and is a low press cartg.

we use it for roe deer which would be like a small whitetail to you.


looking forward to spending some time with all you guys in here

regards peter

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Paatti
.333 member


Reged: 18/01/07
Posts: 301
Loc: Finland
Re: H&H rook rifle [Re: peter]
      #76470 - 14/04/07 08:00 AM

Maximum average pressure
22hornet 3000bar
22 savage high power 3300bar
25-35 win 3050bar
and
location of the pressure take
22hornet 17,5mm
22savage hp 25mm
25-35win 25mm
those rook rifles are desingned to use quite mild cartridges (I think) like 300/295 1200bar / 17,5mm
so i think that 25-20win and cartridges like that would be nice for your rifle.

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peter
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Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: H&H rook rifle [Re: Paatti]
      #76560 - 15/04/07 05:39 AM

concerning pressure there is no problem with the 6x70 it was built for old combination rifles with out of date ctg.

it is a 6mm v0 750 m/s e0 1630 j

www.norma.cc go to jakt then sortiment and 6x70R

around here the operation cost about 750$ and denmark is one of the most expencive countrys to have anything done.

hope this can help

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Bramble
.375 member


Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: H&H rook rifle [Re: peter]
      #76578 - 15/04/07 10:46 AM

What do the origional proof marks give for pressure?

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xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: H&H rook rifle [Re: peter]
      #76617 - 16/04/07 02:44 AM

Peter, thank you for your suggestion. I will look into it further. Actually, the cartridge sounds like a wildcat cartridge, the 6X47, made from .223 Remington Magnum cases necked up to 6mm.

However, I checked out the cartridge on some German web sites, where the cartridge is evidently highly recommended as a roe deer caliber by Krieghoff, which promotes insert barrels in that caliber for its drillings. Here is a sample of the comments:

Hasty1
Mitglied
Mitglied # 268
Mitglied bewerten
erstellt 21. Mai 2001 00:18
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Ich plane den Kauf eines Drillings mit Einstecklauf, mir ist ein neues Kaliber aufgefallen, das sogenannte 6x70.
Wer von Euch kann mir Auskunft geben über
Schusswirkung.
Waidmannsheil
Hasty
------------------



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Wildschütz
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erstellt 22. Mai 2001 09:06
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...soll gut sein, das Kaliber. Eine echte Rehwildpatrone, hochgelobt, nur schlecht lieferbar. Das würde ich bedenken, wenn ich mir so einen Einstecklauf zulege. Sonst geht`s so wie mit meiner .222 rem.mag., die ich immer als Original-Remington Laborierung bezog, die nun aber hier nirgendwo mehr erhältlich ist ( andere Hersteller, 2 Stück an der Zahl, schon... nur: Remington war konkurrenzlos preiswert...).
--- Sonst also würde meines Erachtens nichts gegen die 6 x 70 sprechen. Laut diversen Testberichten ist sie ja das neue "NON PLUS ULTRA" für Rehwild, schonend im Einsatz, aber ausreichende Wirkung.
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foxhunter
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erstellt 22. Mai 2001 09:55
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Habe mich (ebenfalls im Zusammenhang mit der Beschaffung eines Einstecklaufes) für die Patrone interessiert, da Krieghoff diese Patrone "wärmstens" als rehwildtaugliches Einstecklaufkaliber empfiehlt.

Ergebnis: nur ein Hersteller (NORMA) produziert die Patrone. Mindestens seit Jahresanfang ist dieselbe nicht lieferbar.

Nun habe ich die Warterei aufgegeben und mich im Einstecklauf für die .22-Hornet entschlossen. Die Rehe schiesse ich halt wie seither auch mit dem "großen" Kaliber. (8*57IRS) Dies hat seither auch ganz gut funktioniert. Es rummst halt ein bißchen.
Die Wildpretentwertung ist bei Treffern "hinterm Blatt" durchaus minimal.

Not only is the cartridge unavailable in this country, I could not even find a picture of it in the internet. If you have such a thing, I would greatly appreciate seeing it.

Incidentally, I have checked the original and supplemental proof marks on the rifle and have found nothing to indicate the pressure at which it was proofed. The only number I cannot account for is a large "61" or "19", depending which way you read it, stamped on the barrel next to the proof marks.


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Paatti
.333 member


Reged: 18/01/07
Posts: 301
Loc: Finland
Re: H&H rook rifle [Re: xausa]
      #76675 - 16/04/07 08:01 PM

I found couple of pictures
http://home.snafu.de/l.moeller/6-mm/Bilder/6x70R-Patrone.jpg




http://www.jaegerforbundet.dk/files/pdf/Blyantpatronen.pdf

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27599
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: H&H rook rifle [Re: xausa]
      #76792 - 18/04/07 12:21 AM

I would slub thre bore to determine exact groove diameter. If it is .222" or .223" you can use .223" diameter Hornady or Speer bullets. If it is .223" or .224", you can use standard .224" or .223", whichever is most accurate. Only testing will show.
; The standard Hornet chambing is the one I'd go for and you can load it as originally loaded with a 45gr. bullet at 2,400fps, the same bullet at 2,000fps or 40 to 50gr. at 2,700fps. Prsure is what you load for it. Do not shoot factory ammo unless you've satisfied yourself that the action will take 44,000CUP. In Europe, the Hornet is loaded to lower pressure than in the States.
; Break-Open Rook rifles may not have the locking strength for full powered Hornet loads. The .22 Rim fire mag and .22 LR both produce 24,000 to 25,000CUP breech pressure.
; Tread carefully. I would not consider the larger cased rounds like the .22 HiPower. The other choice, .25/35 would be fun with cast bullets only, but it is also a 40,000 CUP round with jacketed, no different than a .30/30.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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