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AzGuy
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Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 388
Loc: Prescott, Arizona, USA
Proper barrel length
      #75411 - 03/04/07 08:45 AM

Is the "proper" barrel length of a DR determined by the cartrdige it is chambered for? Or is it mostly a matter of personal taste and/or tradition?

I've seen a lot of 450/400's with 28" barrels, most 470's I've seen are 24", and some new 9.3x74's are at 21.5"....any reason rythme, or logic??


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AzGuy
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Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 388
Loc: Prescott, Arizona, USA
Re: Proper barrel length [Re: AzGuy]
      #75504 - 04/04/07 09:23 AM

No opinions or explanitions?

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Rusty
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Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas
Re: Proper barrel length [Re: AzGuy]
      #75506 - 04/04/07 09:34 AM

As the owner of a 450/400 3 inch A.Hollis and Son double rifle I prefer 26 inch barrels. I think a double rifle looks better handles better and more balanced in appearance and feel.

Having said that, my new Chapuis has 24 inch barrels. They wouldn't let me order 26 inch barrels.

--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!

DRSS


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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Proper barrel length [Re: AzGuy]
      #75508 - 04/04/07 09:39 AM


I am not sure a "standard" existed.

Earlier Nitro DR's SEEMED to have longer barrels
than later (newer) ones.

Certain makers (retailers) seemed to make more shoter ones than longer barreled ones - Army and Navy being one retailer who most guns I've seen have long barrels.

I think the type of action the gun was built on + calibre may have partly determined the barrel length due to having to get the "balance" right.

Re" most 470's I've seen are 24", have a look at some more, I have seen plenty with longer - 26".

Re "I've seen a lot of 450/400's with 28" barrels"
have a look at Jeffrey's (made by Leonard) and a whole
heap of others - Rodda comes to mind. Early 450/400's, yes, 28" but they got shorter.

This is just my opinion from observations. I would like to hear others as it is an interesting topic.


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Bramble
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Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: Proper barrel length [Re: 500Nitro]
      #75509 - 04/04/07 09:52 AM

Fashion may have somehing to do with it. Many were made in the era of the Churchill XXV shotguns which with their short tubes were a radical departure from the 28+ that went before. Witness now the fad for 30 and 32" double |OU shotguns for no real advantage balistically, just the manufactures offering something " New".

Regards


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NE450No2
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Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: Proper barrel length [Re: Bramble]
      #75516 - 04/04/07 01:42 PM

Generally barrels got shorter over the years.
I have doubles with 28,26 and 24" bbls. All are perfect for the frame size and calibre.
\
24" bbls on big bore doubles seem "stubby" to me, but that is just because I am used to my 28" 450 No2.

As long as the double feels good to you I do not think bbl length matters that much.

PS those 21" bbled 9,3x74R Merkels are SWEET. I shot one at the last DRSS hunt/shoot.
I like them.


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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
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Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Proper barrel length [Re: Rusty]
      #75517 - 04/04/07 01:45 PM

I would agree that 26" barrels would seem handier on a 450/400.

I guess it depends upon the action and weight/taper of the barrels to achieve the desired balance.What size action is your Hollis based on--a 20 gauge sized action like a 500 NE or smaller? What would be the best sized action for a 450/400 with 26" barrels? What would be a "best" combination giving a lighter weight as well for a 450/400 class rifle?

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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NE450No2
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Reged: 10/01/03
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Re: Proper barrel length [Re: hoppdoc]
      #75519 - 04/04/07 01:51 PM

I have handled 22" and 24" 450/400's that were heavier and did not balance as well as my 26" 450/400.

As hoppdoc says it depends on the overall package.


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22hornet
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Reged: 19/02/06
Posts: 3
Re: Proper barrel length [Re: NE450No2]
      #75790 - 07/04/07 05:23 AM

21" 9.3x74. Now that interests me!

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Anonymous
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Re: Proper barrel length [Re: AzGuy]
      #78417 - 11/05/07 06:35 AM

I like 25-27 inches.

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dnovo
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Reged: 21/02/05
Posts: 490
Loc: Chicago & SE Wisconsin
Re: Proper barrel length [Re: ]
      #78429 - 11/05/07 09:54 AM

I can think of only two 'reasons' for a given barrel length, reasons as contrasted to 'fashion' considerations.

A given cartridge may need a minimum length to develop the desired performance at a given range, but after that, additional length is not anything other than there for looks or balance, and rarely for the latter, as I will pontificate on infra. My 28 pound, single shot, custom built and loaded 300 Ultra Mag uses a 30" tube plus a 2" brake. That barrel length is my 'load-specific' ideal length for the informal (but still hotly contested among us old farts) 1000 yd BR competition. For hunting and factory loads, you can take a 300 UM and chop off about 4" and the ballistics for that intended use works fine. The shorter length makes it much easier to carry. My Long Tom arrives at the bench in a wheeled case from a car parked as close to the bench as possible. Balance isn't an issue, as I'd no more shot it offhand than Osama would decide to convert to become a Baptist.

Now take a 470NE modern DR regulated for Federal factory loads, as many are. The rifle is expected to be used at under 100yds and, unless you are working with a PH who likes to see an elephant wounded by a client shooting from too far out or pot shot a buff at that range, you are going to be shooting at half that distnace or less. The 470 is designed to deliver its maximum punch at these shorter ranges and is loaded with a powder that will let it develop its full potential in about 24" to 26" of barrel. No need for a 28" set of tubes. Indeed, they are a pain in the butt since they will be far less handy in brush and other conditions where DRs are intended to be used. (You can even see this in bolt action DGR threads, WR bolt rifles often came with a 28" bbl was too long in heavy cover. Most custom DGRs I see now are much shorter, and I have seen a few under 20" for close in work.)

But ballistic considerations is not the end of the bbl length issue, especially on a DR. A DR should handle like a good shotgun, and balance and ease of handling are critical consideriations when you want to avoid, as said elsewhere on this site, becoming elephant toe jam. A DR with a set of 27 or 28" bbls may balance well but be hard to swing around and bring into use in heavy cover. With proper attention by the builder, even a set of 20" tubes handles just fine.

My Merkel 141 in 30-06 with scope (factory mounted and balanced) with a set of tubes just under 20" is perfectly balanced. It is sized and balanced to feel light and handy like a good 28 SXS shotgun. My hedavier Merkel 160 in 500NE with 23.6" tubes is larger, but it is just as well balanced and, while obviously a touch slower to swing because of the difference in weight and bbl length, handles very nicely.

Now, I tried a Merkel 140 in both a 375H&H and in 500. The former felt very nose heavy and not at all easy to use. Too much mass in the barrels. But, picking up the 500 sitting alongside, with the same 23.6" bbls, the lighter barrels (larger bore) made for a better balanced gun.

The answer? Other than fashion, I see no reason to go longer than you have to on barrel length, assuming the gun is balanced properly. Go as short as practcal for the load. If a manufacturer tries the 'one size fits all' method, and uses the same length for all chamberings, I'd make damn sure it balanced proprely before I laid down a dime.

Dave

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels

Edited by dnovo (11/05/07 10:08 AM)


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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Proper barrel length [Re: dnovo]
      #78475 - 12/05/07 12:14 AM

As pointed out above, there are two considerations to keep in mind vis-a-vis barrel length. One is cartridge performance, the other handling. I use only 22" barrels on my bolt rifles for DG (.505, .500, .450 Watts, .375 H&H). By the same token, all my DRs have 25" barrels (.500 NE, .458 Winchester Mag, .450 C&W, .375 H&H, 9.3X74R, 8X75RS), which results in virtually the same over all length for all rifles.

Cartridge performance with regard to barrel length is a function of expansion ratio. A virtually straight sided case like the .458 has a very high expansion ratio: that is, when the bullet travels the length of the case down the barrel, the volume of expanding gas virtually doubles. In a sharply bottle necked case, this is not so, and the bullet from a 7mm Remington Magnum, for instance, has to travel much further for the gas volume to expand the same amount. Some cartridges, like the .22 lr, actually lose velocity beyond a certain barrel length. A .22 lr cartridge shot from a 16" barrel will have higher velocity than one shot from a barrel either shorter or longer than 16".

What this means in practical terms is simply that reducing the barrel length of a rifle using a cartridge with a high expansion ratio, such as most DG cartridges, has minimal effect on velocity, so that handling qualities far outweigh cartridge performance as a factor in determining barrel length.

Stated another way, cutting three inches off a 28 inch .458 barrel might result in a 75 fps. velocity loss, while reducing a 7mm Remington Magnum barrel the same amount might cost 300 fps. in velocity.


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