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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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Reged: 25/12/02
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600 grain bullets in 458?
      #75 - 29/12/02 03:18 AM

From: TheShooter (Original Message) Sent: 12/19/2001 9:01 PM

I'm looking for a bullet thats well constructed and heavier than a 500 gr?

Any ideas out there.


Message 2 of 5 in Discussion

From: BigGuns450 Sent: 1/17/2002 6:46 PM

Shooter,

Try Barnes bullits.

They have a 600 gr Original. I think it is a soft point.


Message 3 of 5 in Discussion

From: Bigfive Sent: 1/31/2002 3:56 PM

Try Rhino Bullets in South-Africa.I'll try and get you the web site.On big game there is no other bullet to be compared with Rhino.I'll see what I can do for you,just give me a few days and I'll come back to you.
Bigfive


Message 4 of 5 in Discussion

From: TheShooter Sent: 2/1/2002 2:32 AM

Hi BigFive

Saw the email.

I sure would like a link to Rhino bullets. It be much appreciated if you could post one.

I am looking for a FMJ bullet in 458 well constructed but heavier than 500 grain.

Have you tried these rhino bullets?

Thanks

And thanks to you BigGuns as well for the barnes idea.


Message 5 of 5 in Discussion

From: Bigfive Sent: 2/1/2002 10:41 PM

Me again Shooter
Yes I have used Rhino bullets and they are excellent.Every thing I experienced and heard about Rhino bullets was only positive.Most of my fellow professional hunters changed to Rhino especially on big game.One of them shot buffalo with a client about 3 week ago and the big old bull dropped in it's tracks after the first shot on the shoulder.They shot it with a 425 NE and the bullet went right trough.I highly recommend this bullets.Check out their web site www.rhinobullets.co.za and tell me what you think.

Good luck
Bigfive



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Billy1shot
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Re: 600 grain bullets in 458? [Re: Prev_Forum]
      #3428 - 24/06/03 01:17 PM

I bought 5 boxes of Barnes Original 600 grain bullets (100) and 100 pieces of new Norma brass to load in my Ruger # 1 tropical rifle. I loaded 65 grains of Varget powder, CCI BR-2 Primers, oal 3.535". I shoot left-handed and like the Ruger. If you have hunted in Africa, you will know that hunters like the .458 because of the straight case, which allows the seating of the bullet further out over increased powder charges. I find the recoil of the .458 loaded with the Barnes 600 bullet to be very manageable. I also reload with 500 grain soft noses and monolithic solids. I have taken 2 bears, 1 black that weighed 450 pounds and a brown bear that weighed 1200 pounds. The 600 Barnes was a one shot kill at 75 yards on the brown, very impressive. I recommend the Barnes 600 for large dangerous game.

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458RugerNo1
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Re: 600 grain bullets in 458? [Re: Billy1shot]
      #10900 - 05/03/04 04:26 AM

Billy1shot,

I've got a .458 Tropical rifle too and love it. Can you
e-mail me that load info for the 600gr Barnes?

As for the original poster...

Try the 550gr .458 Woodleigh bullets. They come in softnose and solids and both are legendary for their toughness. I've used them in my Ruger #1 and it shoots them very nicely.

Haven't tried the Barnes Original yet, but would like to.

--------------------
God Bless old Elmer Keith!

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Billy1shot
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Re: 600 grain bullets in 458? [Re: 458RugerNo1]
      #13586 - 16/04/04 03:14 PM

Sorry I took so long to reply to you. The basic load for the Barnes 600 Original Bullet was 65.0 grains of VARGET powder. I have my .458 in a Ruger # 1, Tropical Rifle. I loaded this round out to 3.603". It chambers nicely. The .600 Barnes Original Bullet is 1.650 " long. You won't be able to come near the cannelure on this bullet, so don't try to. I fired this round off a shooting bench, but do not recommend it for plinking. I wanted a stopping round without breaking the bank, this one will do the job. Thanks for the e-mail. Bill

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DUGABOY1
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Re: 600 grain bullets in 458? [Re: Billy1shot]
      #13672 - 18/04/04 11:45 PM

Gentelmen,let's look at the other side of this coin!

I'm not saying you have not killed GODZILLA with a 600 gr bullet in a 458 Win Mag, but you could have done it better with a 450, to 480 gr bullet, IMO! All the 600 does is reduce the already slow speed of the 458 Win Mag, and increase recoil.

The big draw back to the 458 Win Mag is, it doesn't have enough powder capacity to handle even the 500 gr bullet properly, it certainly doesn't have enough room to do a real job with a 600 gr bullet! The 600 gr .458 dia bullet, made by Barnes, was designed for the 460 Wby Mag, not the 458 WM.

IMO, the 600 gr bullet would work fine in a 458 LOTT,though not needed. The Lott, which is what the 458 win mag should have been in the first place. Anything over a 480 gr, bullet, in a 458 Win Mag, will not get 2150 fps, and simply wastes powder, IMO! The .458 dia bullet works best @ 2150 fps. Tests have shown that when the speed is increased has a detramental effect on bullet performance, and below 2000 fps, retards pennitration, and tends to cause bullets to tumble, and go off course! The window is very narrow, for best results, in this diameter! Between 2000 fps, and 2350 fps, seems to be the best spread! The 500 gr bullet user is lucky to get over the window sill, at all, and I doubt the 600 gr bullet will get even close, in a 458 Win Mag case! Heavy recoil does not mean better killing power, it only feels like it does!

I have three 458 Win Mag rifles, one is a new, unfired, Ruger No1 Tropicle, that is scheduled for a 450NE 3 1/4" chamber! A pre 64 Mod 70, and a FN Mauser. Those rifles have not needed heavier bullets, but lighter ones, to get even close to advertized velocities!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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475Guy
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Re: 600 grain bullets in 458? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #13673 - 19/04/04 01:21 AM

Yep, what D said. The only two bigger bore rifles that were user friendly out of the box were 375 H&H's and 458 WinMag's. The limited case capacity with both does make them easier on your shoulder on your longer strings. With careful handloading, you can optimize your rifles' potential downrange.

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458RugerNo1
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Re: 600 grain bullets in 458? [Re: 475Guy]
      #13675 - 19/04/04 03:53 AM

I'll defer to those with far more expertise ref the bullet weight and velocity ranges. I've heard this point raised before and won't argue it certainly.

Woodleigh does make a 480gr Solid or Sn for the .458 and that might be just the ticket to solve the case capacity issue in the 458 Win.

Dugaboy1 and others... Does the 480gr Woodleigh with proper powder and load choice bring the .458 where it needs to be? Seems with the right choice of powder it should be able to hit 2100fps in a 24" barrel with that 480gr? Especially in the Ruger #1 with it not having the COAL limits of magazine guns.

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475Guy
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Re: 600 grain bullets in 458? [Re: 458RugerNo1]
      #13676 - 19/04/04 04:05 AM

Hell yeah, it does. There are a bunch of 450 gr 458 bullets made now that seems to fit the bill. Two of which are American manufacture are Northfork and Groove Bullets. You can drive them a bit faster with great results. I believe they are made to go 2400-2500 f/s without failure.

www.northforkbullets.com/

www.groovebullets.com/



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DUGABOY1
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Re: 600 grain bullets in 458? [Re: 458RugerNo1]
      #13706 - 20/04/04 05:42 AM

In reply to:

Dugaboy1 and others... Does the 480gr Woodleigh with proper powder and load choice bring the .458 where it needs to be? Seems with the right choice of powder it should be able to hit 2100fps in a 24" barrel with that 480gr? Especially in the Ruger #1 with it not having the COAL limits of magazine guns.



With a senseable powder charge the 450, to 480 gr bullets are perfect for the 458 Win Mag. The 458 Win Mag cannot be made to do what the factory said it would do, but it is a good cartridge none-the-less, "IF" you use a lighter bullet, like the excellent Woodliegh 480 gr soft, and solid, or as 475Guy suggested a North Fork soft, and now the soon to be avalible, solid by them as well. However, it will not handle the 500 gr bullet properly,without crushing the powder and building too much chamber pressure, and certainly not the 600 gr bullet,under any cercumstances. The 600 may get out of the barrel, but it will not be setting any speed records, for sure. The other thing that happens with crush loads is, after some time the powder becomes a solid, and you get hang fires, squib loads, or complete missfires. Those are the things that got people in trouble when shooting large fight back animals with the early factory ammo, and destroyed the reputation of the 458 Win Mag. It will never be a 450NE, or 470NE, but it can be used, if handled properly, with great success!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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4seventy
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Re: 600 grain bullets in 458? [Re: 458RugerNo1]
      #13720 - 20/04/04 07:36 AM

In reply to:

Does the 480gr Woodleigh with proper powder and load choice bring the .458 where it needs to be?



Hell yeah!
Old stories die hard and the 458 has been damned since its introduction.

Actually 2100+ fps is not that hard to achieve these days with 500 gn bullets in 23-24" barrels.

I used a 458 for a while back in the 90's and ran 500 Hornady's and Woodleighs at 2120 with no sign of excess pressure.
Plenty of 458 owners get over 2100 on the chronograph with their 500 gn reloads.
This puts the 458 well and truely in the same class as the 450 to 470 Nitro Express cartridges.

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475Guy
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Re: 600 grain bullets in 458? [Re: 4seventy]
      #13728 - 20/04/04 01:43 PM

4seventy, it seems that everybody likes to talk bad about the 458 WM. No, it doesn't have the case capacity to run at 416 speeds but as stated by previous posters it can be a good shooter with the right loads. To me the 458 WM is one the most fun cartridges to shoot as it can digest anything and everything. I've used unsized 45 ACP and 45 Colt cast bullets for my plinking loads and even used the hard round ball for a quiet pest load.

--------------------
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them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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atkinson6
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Re: 600 grain bullets in 458? [Re: 475Guy]
      #13773 - 21/04/04 01:23 PM

The 600 gr. bullets sure don't work in a bolt gun and neither do the Barnes 500 gr. solids...take up too much powder space and velocity is nill for sure...

I believe a 450 or 480 bullet is more in order, the 458s biggest drawback is a lack of powder space and compaction has gotten more than one PH in a bunch of trouble it seems.

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