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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
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Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: DOUBLE DOUBLING!! PREVENTABLE FATAL ERROR?? [Re: farshot]
      #72195 - 22/02/07 07:21 AM

The sear engagement on the right barrel needs to be adjusted. You need to place it in the hands of a competent gunmaker. GSI, the Merkel importer, has a qualified gunmaker on the premises. Try them first. They know Merkels quite well. They should fix it for free if it is under warranty, and may do so anyway since it is a safety issue.

You could also consider J.J. Perodeau at Champlin Arms for repair. This is a simple and relatively inexpensive repair, but it's not something your local gunsmith can fix.

Curl

P.S. I have had this same problem with two very nice sidelocks. The fix is not a problem.

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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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JPK
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Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re: DOUBLE DOUBLING!! PREVENTABLE FATAL ERROR?? [Re: farshot]
      #72202 - 22/02/07 08:41 AM

Farshot,

YOU NEED TO HAVE YOUR RIFLE REPAIRED. THE HAMMER/SEAR FITTING ON THE RIGHT BARREL IS INADEQUATE. WHILE FIRING THE RIGHT BARREL FIRST MAY ELIMINATE THE DOUBLING CUASED BY THE PROBLEM IT IS ONLY A BANDAID. THE REAL RISK IS AN ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGE AND NOT A DOUBLING!

Curl,

My shotguns and rifle are on right handed actions. I am left handed. I need to reach over the rear trigger to get to the front trigger. The triggers on my rifle are 3 1/4lbs front, 3 3/4lbs rear and my good shotguns are a bit heavier but similar. I use only the pad of my trigger finger when shooting the right barrel. I have never doubled a two trigger firearm.

Putting another myth to bed, I shoot 14 7/8" - 15" stocks on my shotguns and double rifle, pretty long for my size and build. Helps with a consistent mount. Helps reduce cast requirements. Helps insure that the forward hand is the lead hand for dynamic shooting. Doesn't lead to doubling.

JPK


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JPK
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Reged: 31/08/04
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Re: DOUBLE DOUBLING!! PREVENTABLE FATAL ERROR?? [Re: JPK]
      #72205 - 22/02/07 08:46 AM

Curl you beat me to it re the repairs to the Merkel.

Was interupted and didn't finish my post.

To continue:

I really believe it is a hand control issue. What works for some fellows obviously doesn't work for others. Seems best to be willing to try different techniques if yours leads to doubling. If it doesn't your set!

JPK


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
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Re: DOUBLE DOUBLING!! PREVENTABLE FATAL ERROR?? [Re: JPK]
      #72208 - 22/02/07 09:04 AM

JPK I agree with you. In the absence of a mechanical problem like Farshot has, doubling is an error caused by improper handling of the rifle. I suspect this can occur in a number of ways.

Curl

--------------------
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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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farshot
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Loc: Alberta Canada
Re: DOUBLE DOUBLING!! PREVENTABLE FATAL ERROR?? [Re: CptCurl]
      #72317 - 23/02/07 08:42 AM

Thank you for your suggestions gentlemen. I do have the rifle at a very respected double rifle maker and I await his judgment on the issues. I never did think that a pre-mature firing is probably a bigger concern then the doubling - so a special thank you for that. If my man now can't figure it out, or if the results are unsatisfactory, then it will as suggested above -- off to Champlin or contact Merkel directly. I do believe that it is a mechanical issue as there is no way that the front trigger will set off (even if my finger hits the back of the front trigger on recoil)

Thank you and will continue to read on for the experience of others.


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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
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Re: DOUBLE DOUBLING!! PREVENTABLE FATAL ERROR?? [Re: CptCurl]
      #73374 - 08/03/07 09:29 AM

I have owned a Krieghoff Teck box lock O/U DR caliber .458 Winchester Magnum, with interchangeable barrels in .375 H&H and 20 gauge 3" Magnum since 1971. It has accompanied me on three trips to Africa and has accounted for one elephant and one Cape Buffalo (.458) and one lion, one leopard, one greater kudu, one lesser kudu and one eland (.375). All the time I have owned it, it has doubled only once.

This was a true double, with both barrels going off simultaneously. I know this to be the case, since the two bullet holes were less than an inch apart on the target, which would not have been the case had the first barrel caused the second to fire, which has happened to me frequently with my single trigger Merkel 201 O/U shotgun. The simple explanation for the Merkel's doubling is that, if not held tightly enough, the gun recoils in the hand far enough to reset the trigger. Then, when the recoil pad pushes the gun back forward, the second barrel fires.

Since the Krieghoff is a double trigger gun, this was clearly not the case. The rifle was completely dismantled and examined and no explanation was forthcoming. It has never happened again.

Doubling a .458 is an experience. The noise made was so much louder than the normal sound of a .458 that I thought the rifle had exploded. I was forced to step backwards one step, which resulted in my feet tangling up with one another, and I sat down suddenly. However, there were no after effects, no sore shoulder, no headache. This is surprising, considering the following.

When a .458 doubles, the recoil energy is not doubled, it is increased by a factor of four. This is because the bullet velocity (2150 fps) remains the same, but the bullet weight (510 grains) is doubled. Conversely, the weight of the gun remains the same, but the recoil velocity is doubled. Since recoil energy is dependent upon recoil velocity squared, two times the velocity becomes four times the energy, so that instead of 60 fp of recoil energy, the shooter absorbs 240 fp. A healthy amount.

I had the same problem dealing with the recoil of my .577, and my first shot with it also resulted in suddenly assuming a seated position. However, I found that, with practice, I can do a little shuffling dance like step to the rear and not get my feet tangled up. The .577 weighs almost 14 pounds, and the recoil is much more of an inexorable push than a sudden punch, like that of the .458.

A friend of mine also had his Krieghoff double, but that phenomenon was easily explained. He had been shooting the bottom barrel (front trigger) of his rifle first, when for some reason he decided to try the top barrel first instead. However, he came to this decision after he had absent mindedly set the front trigger, which like most German doubles of the era was equipped with a set trigger mechanism, and the recoil from the discharge of the top barrel was enough to set off the bottom barrel as well. Unfortunately for him, unlike me, he was not shooting standing over open sights. He was shooting in a sitting position with a telescopic sight. The recoil slammed the scope against his forehead violently enough to bend the tube. Intrepid soul that he was, he wiped the blood away and continued shooting.

My Krieghoff never malfunctioned in the field and remains one of my prized possessions.


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: DOUBLE DOUBLING!! PREVENTABLE FATAL ERROR?? [Re: xausa]
      #73375 - 08/03/07 09:35 AM

xausa,

Welcome to NE.com. You will enjoy the discourse on this forum. We need more double rifle fans. Thanks for posting.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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JPK
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Reged: 31/08/04
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Re: DOUBLE DOUBLING!! PREVENTABLE FATAL ERROR?? [Re: CptCurl]
      #73406 - 08/03/07 02:52 PM

BTW, I know that I "owe" the trail with the intercepor sear catching the hammer and then pulling the trigger. Been busy, will get to it!

JPK


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