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Hunting >> Hunting in Africa & hunting dangerous game

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Gerard
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Reged: 12/06/05
Posts: 44
Loc: N/A
Re: Which theory of bullet performance do you believe? [Re: 500grains]
      #71515 - 15/02/07 03:43 AM

500grains,

"a" would depend on whether the lead core bullet has a round nose or is an FN as well. If both are FN and both are stabilised to better than SF2, there will be very little to choose between the two. If the lead core bullet is a round nose, it is a no contest, the FN is more reliable.

"b" Penetration depths would be similar if the lead core bullet does not bend. The higher speed of the FN would cause more damage and it would be more reliable - straighter tracking in the animal and less likely to be damaged along the way.

With both a and b the drive band bullet is easier on the bore of the rifle and produces less recoil.

The danger is that monos of equal weight to traditional weights may be too long, if stability factors fall below 2 and speed goes beyond 2400fps, the bullet may be destabilised by the impact. The specification of the cartridge plays a big role. If the twist is fast enough and there is enough case capacity, there is no need to drop in weight when using monos although it is an advantage to do so.


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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Which theory of bullet performance do you believe? [Re: Gerard]
      #71529 - 15/02/07 06:05 AM

Gerard--

VERY INTERESTING!!

After reviewing your site I assume I note a 540 gr FN compatible with a 500 NE Double.

If the Double were shooting 570gr Woodleighs at 2150 fps, what velocity would be reasonable at acceptable pressures for your 540 gr FN?? 2200 fps? How about the 500 gr, 500NE bullet? 2300fps?

I am assuming these bullets would be stable and have less pressure expected vs conventional solids with no barrel damage to a Double due to your bullet construction design.

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Edited by hoppdoc (15/02/07 06:22 AM)


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Grizzly
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Reged: 05/12/05
Posts: 359
Loc: Dallas, Texas, USA
Re: Which theory of bullet performance do you believe? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #71550 - 15/02/07 03:02 PM

hopdoc

That is 540 grain FN in a 470, correct?

I would be interested if the 540 grain FN is suitable for a double rifle with a 1:20 twist.

AS I understand the information on Gerhard's site, with the banded bullet you would actually be able to bump the load and velocity without a pressure increase.

Could you get the 540 grainer up to 2100-2150 fps without excess pressure?

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Grizzly
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Reged: 05/12/05
Posts: 359
Loc: Dallas, Texas, USA
Re: Which theory of bullet performance do you believe? [Re: Grizzly]
      #71562 - 15/02/07 06:11 PM

My mistake - the 540 is for the 500.

The reason I thought it might be the 470 is that GS was offering 470's in 560 and 600 grain bullets.

So with the heavy 470 NE bullets, the question would be if a 1:20 twist is sufficient for those bullets, what velocity could you get them to without causing pressure issues?

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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
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Re: Which theory of bullet performance do you believe? [Re: Grizzly]
      #71565 - 15/02/07 06:26 PM

Grizz--

If I understand the theory above properly one should be able to shoot a "lighter" heavy bullet faster and get more penetration without excess pressure due to the bullet bands.

I guess another real concern would be whether the lighter banded bullets would regulate properly in my Double at a faster velocity. My Woodleighs are great. Be nice to have faster deeper penetrating solids( a 540 gr @ 2200fps? ) that regulated well too!!

Anytime I can get a free lunch(FN bullet, more penetration, same energy)) with technology I want it!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (15/02/07 06:34 PM)


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Gerard
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Reged: 12/06/05
Posts: 44
Loc: N/A
Re: Which theory of bullet performance do you believe? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #71589 - 16/02/07 01:07 AM

hopdoc,

The 540gr FN is specifically designed for the 500NE. The CIP spec for the 500NE is 1:15" but even in a 1:20" twist, this bullet has a stability factor in excess of 3.5 at 2200fps. This makes it very difficult to turn the bullet away from the path it is on and makes for extremely stable transition from air to tissue.

Here are two hunt reports with this exact combination.
http://www.gsgroup.co.za/johnharris.html
http://www.gsgroup.co.za/johnharrisele.html

500grains has also done extensive work with these bullets. Nothing beats hands on field experience with a product.

Speed for the 540gr FN would be 2200 to 2300fps. At 2200fps it is a comfortable load. The 500gr .510" FN bullet is designed primarily for the 500 Jeffery. Due to the nature of magazine fed rifles, some small compromises must be made for reliable feeding. They are still formidable bullets. Below is a picture of two 500gr FNs recovered from Cape Buffalo. Both were back up shots on full going away buff. The left hand one was taken downhill and hit the spine just in front of the tail. The right hand one hit just below the tail for an authentic Texas Heart Shot. Both were recovered under the skin of the chest.



As a custom rifle smith I have seen my share of damaged doubles but I am not aware of a single gun that has suffered damage as a result of using our drive band bullets. Be aware that bullets are frequently described as drive band bullets when they are in fact grooved bullets.

Grizzly,

The 470NE is specified at 1:21" twist and, although the heavier bullets will work, a requirement is that speed must be kept on the low side to avoid turning the bullet on impact. You will see that we offer 450 and 500gr FN bullets for the 470NE on our site and both will be at stability factors in excess of 2.8. The choice between the two would be determined by the availability of powders. Ideally one would use the bullet that will require the least or no filler. Both can be run as hard as is prudent for the given rifle with no fear of having the bullet turn on impact. Once an FN has transitioned from air to tissue in a stable manner, it tends to remain on course. The 500gr FN can be taken to 2150fps easily and, with powders on the fast end of the spectrum, 2200fps is not uncommon. The 450gr FN will go 80fps faster.

hopdoc,

The vast majority of our FN bullets are used in bolt rifles but we have not encountered regulation problems with doubles. The combination of faster barrel time and less pressure seems to work out with the rotation of the rifle vertically and horizontally.


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