Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: After sales "service" of double rifles?

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***

Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

Pages: 1
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39902
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
After sales "service" of double rifles?
      #67132 - 15/12/06 06:10 PM

A discussion question.

If you buy a new double rifle, and find faults with it, which require expert gunsmithing service, how many times should you have to send it back to have faults repaired before it should be accepted as a dud?

Either by the maker, or by you, the new owner?

Note, I am not alluding to whether the after sales service should be at your cost or the makers etc.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3598
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: After sales "service" of double rifles? [Re: NitroX]
      #67135 - 15/12/06 08:42 PM

Once!!

...but obviously, it depends on what is at fault. Sometimes, there may be a difference of opinion over whether a fault even exists at all. I suspect that if the seller is confident that the fault is fixable, he should be happy to take it back for a full refund, knowing that there are other buyers lined up for any good double, and that its value may even have increased in the interim (in the case of a Brit gun).

The trouble starts when the seller believes the fault occurred after sale, perhaps due to the actions of the buyer.

Get a good lawyer...


FWIW, I would always prefer to fix any problem myself, or through my own gunsmith, then I know its been done right. Any serious fault should be detected during the buyer's inspection and test-firing sessions anyway, and factored into the agreed price.

If you've just paid ten grand or more for a DR, tossing a hundred bucks at a trigger-adjustment or stronger safety-spring is peanuts.

I'd be interested to know what kind of faults other posters have found to need multiple attempts to fix, that weren't able to be detected during the pre-sale inspection?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Kalunga
.333 member


Reged: 16/06/06
Posts: 328
Loc: Germany
Re: After sales "service" of double rifles? [Re: Marrakai]
      #67149 - 16/12/06 12:45 AM

IMHO, there shouldn't be any serious problems with a high quality DR, but of course, shit happens. When I bought a Krieghoff Classic in 9,3x74R, I was pissed to find out it wasn't regulated. So I went back to Krieghoff where a specialist regulated the dammn thing to my cost. The finish of the muzzle looked horrible so they reworked this, too. Thank You so much. A short time later the nickel plating of the action was coming off which they renewed, declaring that "this happens". When I found out that the regulation is changing regularly, I had enough and sold the rifle. I learned a lot but it was expensive learning. Hope one day I find a double that doesn't let me down.

Wicked good hunting !

Kalunga


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: After sales "service" of double rifles? [Re: NitroX]
      #67155 - 16/12/06 01:51 AM

I have one Double presently, a Merkel 140.2.1 and have called GSI for questions(no real problems) and they have been most helpful on the phone. I am going to call them about a stronger Spring on the safety(per others safety problems) and see if there is a ?stiffer one available.

I do recall Grizzly stated he had a problem with a Heym but don't know how it was resolved or if it was resolved to his safisfaction.That would be interesting to know.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Grizzly
.333 member


Reged: 05/12/05
Posts: 359
Loc: Dallas, Texas, USA
Re: After sales "service" of double rifles? [Re: NitroX]
      #67180 - 16/12/06 05:22 AM

All issues were resolved. And, they added a second US service center to perform warranty work.

--------------------
SCI Life Member
DSC Life Member
DRSS Member


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: After sales "service" of double rifles? [Re: Kalunga]
      #67396 - 19/12/06 03:01 PM

Quote:

IMHO, there shouldn't be any serious problems with a high quality DR, but of course, shit happens. When I bought a Krieghoff Classic in 9,3x74R, I was pissed to find out it wasn't regulated. So I went back to Krieghoff where a specialist regulated the dammn thing to my cost. The finish of the muzzle looked horrible so they reworked this, too. Thank You so much. A short time later the nickel plating of the action was coming off which they renewed, declaring that "this happens". When I found out that the regulation is changing regularly, I had enough and sold the rifle. I learned a lot but it was expensive learning. Hope one day I find a double that doesn't let me down.

Wicked good hunting !

Kalunga




Kalunga, this is the first time I've heard of the Krieghoff double haveing a regulation problem!
was this a model with adjustable regulation, or a permently regulated model?
If it was a permently regulated model, what did they say caused the loss of regulation, and what method did they use to re-regulate it, if you know? Also if it was a permently regulated rifle, what bullet were you shooting in it, when you discovered it was not regulating?

Now if it was a rifle with adjustable regulation, did they have any reason for you that the regulation wouldn't stay put?

The reason for the twenty questions tach of my post is simply for my own information, as this is the first time I've come in contact with this sittuation from a Krieghoff double rifle with a permently regulated rifle, for no apparant reason.

PS If you don't want these answers public, send me a PM!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39902
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: After sales "service" of double rifles? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #67410 - 19/12/06 06:10 PM

I wonder with so many doubles being manufactured or made in foreign countries to the customer,
- eg German rifles, Spanish, Italian rifles to the US, American rifles to Africa, any of them to Australia etc etc;
- with volumes not usually permitted a local "repair" centre;
- and with legal jurisdictions often making it really hard just to send something back overseas for repairs, sometimes near impossible,

Shouldn't such highly priced firearms come off the makers bench with better quality control. Irrespective of lifetime or other warranties?

I guess one reason some brands have such incredible prices is the degree of quality control, and hand work, plus testing to ensure each leaves the maker's workshop in as perfect condition as possible.

But if say a double rifle, even one costing in the neighbourhood of $10G, which is still a very respectable amount to have to pa for a rifle, needs to be sent back three or more times, shouldn't the maker replace it, free of charge with a better made and properly made model? Rather than the customer having to flog it off to an unsuspecting buyer? What happens if numerous instances of this start to appear?

But in the end for everything, I guess, let the buyer beware is a very good point to remember. No matter what the propaganda one reads or hears says.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Kalunga
.333 member


Reged: 16/06/06
Posts: 328
Loc: Germany
Re: After sales "service" of double rifles? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #67475 - 20/12/06 06:22 AM

Hello Dugaboy ! Sorry for the late answer, I didn't check this thread for a while. My Krieghoff was a standard Classic 9,3x74R with adjustable muzzles, regulated with RWS factory ammo with 293 gr TUG-bullets.As I wrote, I had to go back to the factory to get it regulated and sighted in on my cost, despite the nice-looking original sighting-in target I once relied to. This left a bad feeling with that gun. This was not the last visit at the Krieghoff factory but the bad accuracy remained. Since I am living just an hour drive from Ulm, I know several other hunters from this area that had the same experiences and eventually got rid of their costly guns as well. Then I heard the story of a Krieghoff Classic Big Five in .470 when on safari in the Zambezi valley. The double shot very good when new, so the owner locked it away until about six months before his next big game safari to Africa. When he went to the sooting range to practice with the rifle, he soon discovered that regulation was going away quickly. The first two rounds were OK, about two or three inches apart, after cooling down of the gun five inches, then ten and so on. The poor guy went to his gunsmith to find out what was going on and it looks like there were severe tensions left in the barrel steel when processed and regulated. Who knows. But I think now that producing a high quality double rifle that shoots and regulates as can be expected is not an easy task. The inherent high price is tempting to make some quick money with modern methods of production, CAD, CNC and such. But this doesn't work with doubles, a high level of craftmanship can't be replaced by machines. Just my humble opinion !

Kalunga

"Always stand still and shoot at whatever animal is threatening You most is what I have found to be the best plan." W.D.M. Karamojo Bell


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Grizzly
.333 member


Reged: 05/12/05
Posts: 359
Loc: Dallas, Texas, USA
Re: After sales "service" of double rifles? [Re: Kalunga]
      #67642 - 21/12/06 03:44 PM

John,

Some states here in the US have laws on the books called "lemon laws" to address consumer goods that constantly go back for repair. It started out dealing with automobiles, but I believe some states cover other consumer goods. I think that 6 trips back is the magic number.

For a rifle that number of trips back for work is not going to do. For cars, there is almost always a local authorized shop that can get your goods back within a few days. Warranty work on rifles is limited to usually a couple of places, and those places have backlogs to deal with. Thus, you measure your return in weeks or months, not days.

My own personal belief is that the popularity in double rifles is causing many manufacturers to pump out product. Where they may have made and sold a few doubles a year, they now have an opportunity to sell many of them.

It takes time and money to retool or expand a manufacturing line, not to mention getting trained craftsmen to work those lines. Frankly, the craftsmen are rare, and it takes years versus weeks to master some of these crafts.

A quick way to boost production is to subcontract a lot of the work out to a third party. That can be good or bad. Obviously, the quality control process needs to be changed to deal with outside vendors as opposed to employees.

There is one European maker that is going to be interesting to watch. I will not name the maker, since I do not want to have flamethrowers aimed at me.

This maker has been selling a lot more doubles in the past couple of years than before. They are even supplying doubles at a claimed discount of 20% for group buys (looks like 20 or so). Just on one other hunting board, they have had two of these group buys just this year.

At the same time, they just "private labeled" a double rifle for a major US sporting store (they make the rifle for the retailer allowing the retailer to put its name on the rifle). In November, this retailer listed 4 doubles in 470 from this maker.

I also understand that the maker involved is also adding a 500 Nitro Caliber to its mix.

That is a lot of activity without some major capital and some major lead time. Where they get the trained craftsmen I have no clue, unless they sub out the work.

I am not saying this is going to take down quality. I am saying that it certainly can. In fact, without an outstanding planning, training and retooling effort, it is more likely to end up producing more lower quality product, especially if they view the current interest in doubles as a temporary spike in demand and not a permanent trend that will set a new continuing production target.

We are probably in a phase where real bargains are not to be had. And in a phase where the axiom, "you get what you pay for", is all too true.

--------------------
SCI Life Member
DSC Life Member
DRSS Member


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1



Extra information
0 registered and 298 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  CptCurl 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 2376

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved