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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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SteveH
.300 member

Reged: 26/12/03
Posts: 118
Loc: Hillsboro, Oregon

Questions about a 450/400 at Cabelas (not modem frendly)
#66584 - 08/12/06 12:20 PM

Have a couple questions about a DR I saw on cabelas.

How does this safety work? Does one have to flip the lever out of the way before moving the safety to the off position?

What is this thing below the doll's head? Is this for a screw grip?

Sorry if this is obvious to you more experienced DR fans.

Thanks!!

-Steve

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NE450No2
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Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942

Re: Questions about a 450/400 at Cabelas (not modem frendly) [Re: SteveH]
#66587 - 08/12/06 01:01 PM

That is called a "stalking safety". It acts as a "safety" for the safety.
If I bought a rifle with one [and if I liked the double I would] I would have it professionally removed.

The second picture is of a screw grip locking "device" on a dolls head.
Looks like a nice double.

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SteveH
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Reged: 26/12/03
Posts: 118
Loc: Hillsboro, Oregon

Re: Questions about a 450/400 at Cabelas (not modem frendly) [Re: NE450No2]
#66591 - 08/12/06 01:24 PM

450,

My follow up on the safety was going to be, 'how about disabling/removing it'. But you beat me too it!

Now I need to think if I need to make a trip to Utah.

Thanks a bunch!

-Steve

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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA

Re: Questions about a 450/400 at Cabelas (not modem frendly) [Re: NE450No2]
#66592 - 08/12/06 01:25 PM

The proper name for this type safety is "BARRED SAFETY" and is so the rifle can be carried with the chambers loaded and safety on, with the barr in the position you see it in the picture, the safety cannot be accidently pushed to the fire position! The thin lever is clicked to the left, allowing the safety to operate normally.

The thing below the doll's head is the rib extention with a third bite called a "SCREW GRIP", and is engaged by an extention on the nose of the top lever,that actually pulls the doll's head tighter in it's socket, and acts as a block to the barrels opening, in addtion to the under luggs on the barrel lumps!

I would not disable the barr! It is a very positive feature on the rifle! I have a Westley Richards 500/450#1 Express double with this feature, and when letting a tracker carry your rifle the barr is a handy hedge against his pushing the safety to fire position! The barr has very positive click that takes some effort to engage, and dis engage, so is not prone to be accidently barred! I wish every double rifle I own had this feature!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3598
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia

Re: Questions about a 450/400 at Cabelas (not modem frendly) [Re: DUGABOY1]
#66593 - 08/12/06 01:50 PM

Often referred to as a 'bolted safety' as well, I believe...

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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bulldog563
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Reged: 21/10/05
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Loc: California

Re: Questions about a 450/400 at Cabelas (not modem frendly) [Re: DUGABOY1]
#66594 - 08/12/06 01:54 PM

Steve,

Yes the action appears to be a Webley Screw Grip (A&W C). There is a thread called "Screw Grip and PHV1" near the top of this forum. Plenty of good info there. I have a double built on this action... From what I have heard one of the better BL actions around.

Which rifle is this? Looks very nice from the pictures.

--------------------
Join the National Rifle Association:
https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp

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SteveH
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Reged: 26/12/03
Posts: 118
Loc: Hillsboro, Oregon

Re: Questions about a 450/400 at Cabelas (not modem frendly) [Re: Marrakai]
#66596 - 08/12/06 01:59 PM

Okay, is this type of safety something that one should be concerned about on a DGR? Seem's like it could be 'one more thing...'

-Steve

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SteveH
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Reged: 26/12/03
Posts: 118
Loc: Hillsboro, Oregon

Re: Questions about a 450/400 at Cabelas (not modem frendly) [Re: bulldog563]
#66597 - 08/12/06 02:04 PM

BD563,

I'd been looking at that thread before I stumbbled on the rifle. Thats the only way I had any shot of knowing what it was

.

Here's a link to the rifle's page.

-Steve

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400NitroExpress
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Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State

Re: Questions about a 450/400 at Cabelas (not modem frendly) [Re: SteveH]
#66602 - 08/12/06 03:21 PM

We've discussed this rifle several times here. It's been for sale a long time.

I'm not a fan of bolted safeties, but am not sure that I would remove it. Just depends on how positive the detent there on the left is.

No, it isn't a Webley action. It's a screw grip from another trade maker. I've seen it many times on guns retailed by quite a variety of retailers. I used to own one myself. I don't know who the trade maker was.

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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bulldog563
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Reged: 21/10/05
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Loc: California

Re: Questions about a 450/400 at Cabelas (not modem frendly) [Re: 400NitroExpress]
#66608 - 08/12/06 07:04 PM

How can you tell it is from a different maker?

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: Questions about a 450/400 at Cabelas (not modem frendly) [Re: bulldog563]
#66613 - 08/12/06 09:50 PM

How can you tell it is from a different maker?

Because the Dolls Head on a Webley Screw grip has
a Spade shaped head, this is more square, rectangular.

See the thread Marrakai pointed out plus pictures - I think some pictures exist of 2 of my 500 Nitro's on the fourm which shows both a
Webley Screw Grip and a Webley PHV1 next to each other.

In regards to the Stalking Safety (what I call it),
From what I have seen / owned they are NOT Automatic
and don't generally get knocked into position.

I wouldn't remove it.

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400NitroExpress
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Re: Questions about a 450/400 at Cabelas (not modem frendly) [Re: 500Nitro]
#66636 - 09/12/06 08:38 AM

500 Nitro is right. Webley made five distinct, readily identifiable double rifle models, three of which were hammerless - two boxlocks, and one sidelock. This one looks kinda like an A & W C, but is not. The A & W C has a dolls head that is spade shaped with a clipped point. This one is the wrong shape. Although file and chisel work on the frame can vary, I've never seen a Webley boxlock DR with a bolstered frame. Also, this gun has the trade maker's number somewhere around the fore-end loop, and it is not a Webley number.

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: Questions about a 450/400 at Cabelas (not modem frendly) [Re: 400NitroExpress]
#66638 - 09/12/06 08:44 AM

400

That's an interesting point you make in
"I've never seen a Webley boxlock DR with a bolstered frame."

Something you know automatically when looking at a gun but just never really added it to my list of yes and no's when determining the maker.

500

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NE450No2
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Re: Questions about a 450/400 at Cabelas (not modem frendly) [Re: 500Nitro]
#66639 - 09/12/06 09:13 AM

I have seen that type of frame on Lancaster, Wilkenson Sword, Chas Osborn, and a couple of others I cannot remember, maybe Lyon & Lyon not sure.

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SteveH
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Posts: 118
Loc: Hillsboro, Oregon

Re: Questions about a 450/400 at Cabelas (not modem frendly) [Re: 500Nitro]
#66641 - 09/12/06 09:26 AM

As a side note, I just called Cabela's and spoke with them about the gun. He told me that it was out getting tightened up. They reduced the price as it was loose. Because it wasn't there he couldn't talk about it much. They had it at SCI last year and the hope to have it at SCI this year.

-Steve

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bulldog563
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Re: Questions about a 450/400 at Cabelas (not modem frendly) [Re: SteveH]
#66661 - 09/12/06 03:26 PM

Thanks 500Nitro and 400NE. I see it now that you pointed it out to me. Are there internal differences between the two? Did only one other company besides Webley make a Screw Grip?

--------------------
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4seventy
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Re: Questions about a 450/400 at Cabelas (not modem frendly) [Re: SteveH]
#66663 - 09/12/06 03:48 PM

Quote:

Okay, is this type of safety something that one should be concerned about on a DGR? Seem's like it could be 'one more thing...'

Steve,
That's a good point.
If a rifle is to be used for dangerous game, personally I wouldn't want a bolted safety.
In effect a gun fitted with a bolted safety really has two safety catches meaning that when both are engaged, both need to be disengaged before the rifle can be fired.
That's one too many in my book.
I would never let that stop me from buying a double just because it had a bolted safety though.
I'd deactivate it, or prevent it from being engaged. (if possible)
This should be able to be done without damaging any original part/s of the gun.

On a DGR, an extra safety, which can prevent the true safety from being disengaged, is not my idea of fun.

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500Nitro
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Re: Questions about a 450/400 at Cabelas (not modem frendly) [Re: 4seventy]
#66670 - 09/12/06 07:35 PM

4seventy

"In effect a gun fitted with a bolted safety really has two safety catches meaning that when both are engaged, both need to be disengaged before the rifle can be fired. That's one too many in my book."

I don't know about you 4seventy but when I am hunting Buu and am close in to the herd or following up a Wounded one, my safety is OFF -in the heat of the moment, your brain will not remember to take it off in an emergency - ie a direct charge from 10 feet.

I haven't seen any "automatic" bolted safety's -they really do need to be put to the "safe" position.

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4seventy
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Re: Questions about a 450/400 at Cabelas (not modem frendly) [Re: 500Nitro]
#66715 - 10/12/06 12:25 PM

Quote:

I haven't seen any "automatic" bolted safety's -they really do need to be put to the "safe" position.

500,
Yes I know that the bolted safety is not automatic.
If you are not going to put it to the safe position you don't NEED it at all IMO.
What is the point of having an extra safety that you don't intend to use?

Quote:

I don't know about you 4seventy but when I am hunting Buu and am close in to the herd or following up a Wounded one, my safety is OFF -in the heat of the moment, your brain will not remember to take it off in an emergency - ie a direct charge from 10 feet.

When you are close in on the herd you have plenty of time to ensure your rifle is ready for use.

It's when you are just carrying the rifle with no game close and both safety's engaged, and you put up a good bull unexpectedly, that you could get caught out IMO.

Many double rifle shooters flick the safety off as the rifle comes up, and it would be easy to forget that extra lever on the stalking safety when the pressure is on.

As Mac pointed out, the stalking safety would be good insurance when your loaded double is in someone elses hands.
For hunting where you carry your own gun, I don't see any need for a stalking safety.
Just another "gizmo" with little practical value IMO.

Having said all that, I now have to admit to never having hunted "Buu".

Edited by 4seventy (10/12/06 02:58 PM)

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400NitroExpress
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Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State

Re: Questions about a 450/400 at Cabelas (not modem frendly) [Re: 4seventy]
#66725 - 10/12/06 04:51 PM

Quote:

It's when you are just carrying the rifle with no game close and both safety's engaged, and you put up a good bull unexpectedly, that you could get caught out IMO.

Many double rifle shooters flick the safety off as the rifle comes up, and it would be easy to forget that extra lever on the stalking safety when the pressure is on.

Exactly. You wouldn't want the bolted safety engaged when you're carrying the rifle yourself. As the long as the detent that keeps it out of the way is good and stiff, and not prone to getting engaged inadvertently, I'd be comfortable with it. If not, I wouldn't be.

Quote:

As Mac pointed out, the stalking safety would be good insurance when your loaded double is in someone elses hands.

That's what the bolted safety was designed for - when a gunbearer was carrying the loaded rifle for the hunter. These days, if you hand it off to the tracker in exchange for your other rifle, the rifle he's carrying probably won't be loaded anyway. Bolted safeties really don't have much utility today, just an interesting gizmo from the past.

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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