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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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cd4dallas
.224 member


Reged: 25/10/06
Posts: 4
500 BPE 3 1/4 Inch Brass
      #64680 - 26/10/06 12:21 PM

I recently picked up a vintage double rifle chambered in 500 BPE 3 1/4 inch - and would like to shoot it. Does anyone have any suggestions regarding where I could find some brass. thanks, Chris

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: 500 BPE 3 1/4 Inch Brass [Re: cd4dallas]
      #64682 - 26/10/06 01:07 PM

Welcome!

Although I'm not sure of who has what in stock, I'll say Midway and Huntingtons would be the first places I'd look -- once I'd cast the chambers with cerrosafe and slugged the bores.

Who made your rifle?
What action type?
Damascus barrels?
Do you have photos for us to see?

Have fun with that thing. I'd love to see how it comes together for you as you get it running


--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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cd4dallas
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Reged: 25/10/06
Posts: 4
Re: 500 BPE 3 1/4 Inch Brass [Re: tinker]
      #64683 - 26/10/06 02:03 PM

Tinker, thanks for the reply. It's a Holland & Holland hammerless sidelock with 26 inch fluid steel barrels. Not much in the way of engraving so I'm going to guess it's a grade 2 gun. The barrel flats are marked 500 ex - and the bottom of the action is marked something like "Case 3 1/4 Inches" - so I assume it's a 500 BPE 3 1/4 inch. I'll try and post some pictures tomorrow. Chris

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tinker
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Re: 500 BPE 3 1/4 Inch Brass [Re: cd4dallas]
      #64708 - 27/10/06 12:00 AM

Chris-

Sounds great. What is the rifling profile? Do you know if this rifle's been shot fairly recently?

If you're going to post photos, also include the proof marks on the action flats and the barrel flats. Someone here will most likely be able to steer you in the right direction as to starting loads for it.

Have you handled and shot double rifles in the past?
There are books out there on the subjec of their proper care, handling, and feeding.
This forum is a great resource for information in each of those regards too.
I look forward to seeing what you have to show us.




--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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bulldog563
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Reged: 21/10/05
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Re: 500 BPE 3 1/4 Inch Brass [Re: tinker]
      #64750 - 27/10/06 10:27 AM

If I were you I would definitely get a copy of "Shooting the British Double Rifle" by Graeme Wright.

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Grizzly
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Reged: 05/12/05
Posts: 359
Loc: Dallas, Texas, USA
Re: 500 BPE 3 1/4 Inch Brass [Re: bulldog563]
      #64763 - 27/10/06 02:18 PM

Also check Buffalo Arms. They seem to have a lot of what others don't.

And what the hell happened to Old western Scrounger? That might be another place to look, but it ain't what it used to be.

If you strike out post back. We'll find you some!

As for books out there, they are few and far between for double rifles. SHooting the British Double Rifle is great. I just finished reading "The Big Bore Rifle" by McIntosh - lots of very interesting information on history and development.

I managed to start reading a borrowed copy of "The Hammerless Double rifle" by Alexander Gray. Good information on construction and operation, but dry. Borrowed because the copies available for purchase are going for $750 and up.

For ballistics information, a good book is "Big Bore Cartridge Load data Collection" by Pierre van der Walt. It just came out not to long ago. I got mine from South Africa (the shipping was about as much as the book) but I think someone in the US is now carrying them. Just checked the index and nothing on a 500 BPE, though.

The book I am trying to get ahold of right now is "Amateur Gunsmithing" by Desmond Mills and Mike Barnes. I understand that actually goes into some issues on taking a double apart, not that I want to do that. I know of people who have read it, but to me it is "mythical"-no copies anywhere. I imagine that once they surface the price will reflect their scarcity.

There are more than a couple of good books on Holland and Hollands, and I'd bet they would have some pretty good info on black powder models. I haven't read any of them - I would then be haunted by the H&H.

And there's always "Any Shot You Want". Good general information and some loading info on big bores. Not sure if they have any BPE info in it, though.

Finally, I haven't looked but there has to be a decent book on BPE's.

Best of luck with your new baby. Pictures when you get a chance.



--------------------
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gatsby
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Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: 500 BPE 3 1/4 Inch Brass [Re: cd4dallas]
      #64768 - 27/10/06 02:58 PM

cd4,
Contact Holland and Holland for your ledger page as the regulating load data may be included in the info. Your gun probably regulates with 4 to 5 drams of black. Holland also regulated some of their guns with a tapered bullet unique to Hollands. Anyone out there with an original mold?

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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WildCattle
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Reged: 22/03/06
Posts: 95
Loc: Northern California
Re: 500 BPE 3 1/4 Inch Brass [Re: cd4dallas]
      #64769 - 27/10/06 03:55 PM

I have a H&H 500 BPE 3 1/4" as well.
The number is 8343 built around 1885. It is regulated for the 5 drams load as per the engraving.
I am still working on the load. I have had trouble with the chambers as the cases stick in them (especially the left one). It is not a pitting issue, but It looks like the 19th century BPE brass was much thinner than the 500NE stuff that I have. Even unfired cases tend to be hard to extract. I guess I should turn the necks...
I got my brass from Huntington's. The bores are .510" so no surprise there. I am currently playing with the bullets.
BTW you'll need a large press to reload this round.
Good luck!
WC

--------------------
You know you have reached perfection of design not when you have nothing more to add, but when you have nothing left to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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pwm
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Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 216
Loc: Banana Republik of Germany
Re: 500 BPE 3 1/4 Inch Brass [Re: WildCattle]
      #64816 - 28/10/06 05:18 AM

It is not a pitting issue, but It looks like the 19th century BPE brass was much thinner than the 500NE stuff that I have. Even unfired cases tend to be hard to extract. I guess I should turn the necks...


it doesn't surprise me that you find it out,it was chambered for the coiled case and that its a brass foil

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MikeD
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Reged: 25/04/05
Posts: 25
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Re: 500 BPE 3 1/4 Inch Brass [Re: WildCattle]
      #64817 - 28/10/06 05:20 AM

Chris, I have a spare copy of Wright's book. Give me a call. You have my number on a PM on the AR forum.

Mike

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cd4dallas
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Reged: 25/10/06
Posts: 4
Re: 500 BPE 3 1/4 Inch Brass [Re: tinker]
      #64823 - 28/10/06 11:45 AM

Tinker, I have always admired double rifles, but do not have a lot of experience shooting them. I don't think this rifle has been shot recently. Although it's well worn, the bore in both barrels looks good, with strong rifling. I'm not sure how to respond to your question regarding the rifling's profile. I'll try to take a photo of it. I appreciate all the suggestions regarding reading material. I ordered a copy of wright's book last night. Midway had them on sale at a good price. I've also ordered a factory letter. I'll get on the photos this weekend. Chris

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cd4dallas
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Reged: 25/10/06
Posts: 4
Re: 500 BPE 3 1/4 Inch Brass [Re: cd4dallas]
      #64824 - 28/10/06 11:49 AM

Bulldog563, Grizzly, Gatsby, MikeD, Tinker, PWM, wildcattle -- you guys are great. I sure appreciate all the suggestions. I'll keep you updated regarding my progress. Chris

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3595
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: 500 BPE 3 1/4 Inch Brass [Re: cd4dallas]
      #64826 - 28/10/06 12:01 PM

Chris:
If you have trouble getting the longer cases, you could consider shooting 'nitro-for-black' loads in the rifle using 3-inch brass, and 440gr Woodleigh jacketed bullets. With smokeless powder and thin-jacketed bullets, the 1/4-inch bullet-jump would likely be of no consequence. I do this in a Tolley .500/.450 x 3 1/2, using 3 1/4 inch brass. In fact, I didn't realise my rifle was chambered for the longer case till Tinker pointed it out! (he has one, too!)

Wrightie's book has the 'good oil' on loading N-for-B.

If you do decide to go N-for-B in the interim, you will need filler-wads of course, which is daunting to some but no trouble really once you understand the basics. Many of us do it on a daily basis with perfect safety.



--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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