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Bonde
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Self-guided dangerous game hunting?
      #63982 - 14/10/06 02:45 AM

Has anyone planned and, successfully, done a self-guided hunt for buff and ele in africa? I'm thinking of doing such in a couple of years time, and like to gain some experience from others if possible. I'm not particularly interestend in large ivory or tremendous trophies, but I Do want a top experience, and the satisfaction of achievement... bringing home "the bacon" by myself with help only from a native crew.

I've thought of Cameroon as an alternative, but have understood that the heyday is over when it comes to elephant?
I don't speak french, but beeing norwegian I've read german over a few years at school along with mandatory english. Does this rule out Cameroon as I can't speak French?

How about CAR, huntable for Big-game? Any classic East-african country also interesting. But I've got a feeling the hunting-companys keep most of the hunting areas that hold game in those countries? Countries that has a well built huntingindustry....
I reckon the major issues will be, finding game, or rather: areas that hold game that are huntable..? How to obtain hunting perits and stack together a crew that works...
I'd like it to be a foot-safari as much as possible...! Long days in the wilderness with only the basic gear, and a warming campfire by night.

Thankful for any advice, or contact with other keen hunters!


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butchloc
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Re: Self-guided dangerous game hunting? [Re: Bonde]
      #63985 - 14/10/06 03:31 AM

is this a serious post??? can't help but wonder what this guy will taste like in stew

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Self-guided dangerous game hunting? [Re: Bonde]
      #63990 - 14/10/06 04:06 AM

I have an acquaintance who has done self-guided hunts in Cameroon and I don't believe he speaks French. However he may have had a mate along who did. I think not speaking French would be a big disadvantage. This guy is a hunting guide down here and has hunted elephant, bufalo etc with guided hunts at least a couple times in Zimbabwe.

I know of some other Aussie guys who used to do self-guided hunts in Zimbabwe by buying at the yearly auctions. I understand now most of these auctions go to outfitters now and the price they pay officially makes it much more expensive. These gentlemen had local contacts with gear so they borrowed the gear for camping etc, plus arranged staff etc through them.

I think it would also be an advantage to have hunted DG in Africa before with an outfitter before trying the self-guided route.

I would like to do these myself one day but am not sure if it is economical at the moment seeing the ridiculous prices being paid for auctioned blocks, concessions etc.

I know Zimbabwe and Cameroon do allow self-guided hunts under certain arrangements but don't know which other countries do. Many countries allow resident hunting or have arrangements for it, but of course one must actually qualify as a resident! It could prove expensive and without much success unless one knows what they are doing and having someone local would really help.



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Bonde
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Re: Self-guided dangerous game hunting? [Re: butchloc]
      #63991 - 14/10/06 05:00 AM

Dead serious... You don't have to be a rocket scientist to pull something lik this... That's my opinion anyway

With a crew I'll of course rely on the tracker when it comes to finding the right animal(I.m no expert in ftracking and finding an ele)... getting there I rely on myself to judge wether to shoot or not.. My and my crews safety are more worth than some pounds of ivory.. And, I'm a firm believer in going steady and keep my head cool. Fast reaction when needed if charged..

A/D-escending mountains in Norway with temp of -15C, lots of snow and ice, snowkiteing in heavy winds.. Living and hunting in remote rainforests of central new-zealand for longer periods of time, hunting Thar and chamois in the southern alps of NZ, I've done it all, and done it alone..! All this require a steady course and a cool head.. Doing things the right way!
One thing that is absolutely sure is that a screw up will probably cost you your life in any of the situations mentioned. Bearing that in mind, and not rushing things, I think I'll have a good chance of getting out of it alive!

This idea of mine about hunting dangerous game isn't any different, it's a different setting, yes, the animals can bite back, yes, but because of that I'll arm myself with adequade gear, and stay on the safe side when actually hunting. I've always made my first shot count, so I'd rather let an ele go, than wound.. If woundeed, I reckon a .470 in the head is just as good as four... Dangerous game in africa doesn't lay up behind every root just to charge you unprovoked...I'm talking about bovines her, not the game that eat meat..! Keep outside the comfortsone of the animal, at least until you plan to make a kill, and shoot straight!
It has been done before by men like Charlie Puff, von Meuerers and a lot of other more or less well known hunters of today....

I think this is possible for the right person.... The q's isn't IF for me, but HOW and WHEN..

I don't want this to end up like a string of posts that is pro or con using a guide... I don't oppose to using a guide, but I'd prefer not to when it comes to this..

Some might find this a bit cocky? It sure isn't meant to be so from my side...





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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
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Bonde
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Re: Self-guided dangerous game hunting? [Re: NitroX]
      #63994 - 14/10/06 05:27 AM

Thanks NitroX,

Cameroon seems as the obvious place to start searcing. I was aware of the auctions for zambesi and such areas beeing on the expensive side... Economy is ofcourse one reason I want to do it myself, I've got limited funds but still want t hunt elephant. I might go for a tuskless hunt with a guide the very first time, depends on what shows up in due time.

Contacting local authorities will be among my first steps, along with missionarys and other countrymen staying there. We have a few from Norway in various parts of Central Africa. Knowing someone local is of major importance!

(Hunting in New Zealand I spent a night in a local bar at Kumara Junction getting to know people (not to hard beeing a poolplayer and enjoying Speights;-)) It all ended with a couple of mates giving me a ride out to the mountainrange where it ought to be Chammy. They grinned as I departed in the dark to start the walk up- they never thought I'd get one.. As the day ended i came back with a nice black buck shot up at the tops In Kumara they probably still joke about that crazy norwegian who was so eager to go chammyhunt'n... but i reckon the laugh went into a great grin as they ate the very tasteful Chammy as I'd already left for Canterbury to go for Thar.... )

I'm into it for the Adventure!

No-one at the forum who has actually pulled off a solo hunt?



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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Self-guided dangerous game hunting? [Re: Bonde]
      #63996 - 14/10/06 05:46 AM

A cheap option with an outfitter for elephant hunting is so-called PAC elephants.

Also end of season "specials" by outfitters can be very competitive.

If the price is very good they can go very quickly and are often offered to previous clients first. You may have to settle for limited dates as well.

Most of these hunts are in the hotter months. PAC in Zim is often in December and March for crop raiders I believe. But sometimes can be had at anytime if one is lucky and in the right place. I was offered one in August this year but we were "negotiating" on price and wanted to shoot the trophy fee elephant off first so the second one could be free . Otherwise they might have claimed the trophy fee on the "PAC" ele. A turned over truck prevented us from getting there on the day as well.

In any case I shot one first for free by luck anyway, and unfortunately only shot the "trophy fee" cow on the last morning. In the end I might have had opportunities on four elephants for the price of one, but I'm not complaining as the hunting I did was fun.



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John aka NitroX

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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Bonde
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Re: Self-guided dangerous game hunting? [Re: NitroX]
      #64001 - 14/10/06 07:00 AM

You must've had a great time hunting anyhow? I'll keep looking for such a licence, and see what I can make of it. But I'd very much like to use my 470, as I've heard it might not be possible to bring your own gun on such hunts due to short time notice? I'm only 27 now, and I made a priority as I bought the DR his spring. I've had a dream of shooting an elephant with a heavy double since I was a kid... It has to be my hard earned DR

Do you have any pic's from the hunt and your ele? What rifle did you use?

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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
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500grains
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Re: Self-guided dangerous game hunting? [Re: Bonde]
      #64011 - 14/10/06 12:18 PM

You can buy an auction hunt in Zimbabwe and go self-guided.

However, without the infrastructure of an established safari company, it can be difficult to obtain the necessities, such as diesel.


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EricD
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Re: Self-guided dangerous game hunting? [Re: Bonde]
      #64024 - 14/10/06 06:03 PM

In reply to:

I might go for a tuskless hunt with a guide the very first time




This sounds like a very good idea. Or if not for a tuskless, then for a PAC elephant. At least the first one. Reading books about shot placement, how to deal with irritated elephant etc isn't the same as having been up close in real life IMO.

You've mentioned having hunted in NZ etc, but I don't see any mention of you having hunted, or travelled in Africa. Is this correct, or have I missed a previous thread where that's been mentioned? I ask because getting around on your own in NZ and most other places including Asia and South America is very different, and generally much easier than in many regions of Africa. Zim is relativly easy (despite the difficulties of obtaining desiel), but getting around in west/central African countries is more of a challenge. And a plainsgame hunt in RSA, Zim, Namibia etc doesn't count much really when it comes to understanding and dealing with African beaurocracy, and with getting around by yourself in out of the way African regions. IMO.

I also would not rely much on Norwegian missionaries, unless you are lucky enough to have a direct connection with some via a church or missionary group where you are known. I've been suprised in fact over how little help I've experianced from Norwegian missionaries in the various African countries where I've met them. Only a couple were open and friendly, and the rest were just plain rude unwelcoming. Which is kind of weird if you ask me, as I personally would have been glad to meet another countryman out in the middle of no where and offer a bit of help if needed. I suspect one of the reasons they behaved poorly is that they didn't like exposing to us how comfortable and well off they lived, as they prefer to make it sound as though their missionary lives are very tough and demanding when reporting back home to collect more money.

The few that were helpful were very helpful though, and one elderly couple in Ethiopia even let us use a guestroom for a night, and fed us with Norwegian goat cheese!

Other missionaries, nuns and monks we have come across, both locals and from other European countries, have often been very helpful and gave good advice. So keep that in mind if you try Cameroon.

I myself would like to go on a self-guided hunt, and have given it considerable though. Although I'm a bit out of order at the moment with my busted ankle, I hope to do so myself in the future.

I believe that Congo-Brazzaville also allows "Chasse-Libre", and I think I posted a link to their government website recently, were there is some info about it (or maybe it was Larcher/JB who posted it???). I also seem to recall that it is possible to do self guided hunts in Benin?

The thing with most of these countries is that it's hard to get by without knowing much French. I am not very fluent in French, and had a hard time now and then in west Africa, although my wife knows more, and was of great help. I personally think that a bit of French skills would be of even greater importance if going on a self guided hunt in a west/central African country. I would go so far as to say that virtually no one outside the larger cities know any English, and definately not any German. So if you can, take an evening course of French at a local school or something if that's available. But even then, keep in mind that the French that local African speak is quite different than what is spoken in France, and it'll take a while to catch on to what the locals are talking about even if you speak French well!

Erik


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Self-guided dangerous game hunting? [Re: EricD]
      #64033 - 15/10/06 01:21 AM

In reply to:

The thing with most of these countries is that it's hard to get by without knowing much French. I am not very fluent in French, and had a hard time now and then in west Africa, although my wife knows more, and was of great help. I personally think that a bit of French skills would be of even greater importance if going on a self guided hunt in a west/central African country. I would go so far as to say that virtually no one outside the larger cities know any English, and definately not any German. So if you can, take an evening course of French at a local school or something if that's available. But even then, keep in mind that the French that local African speak is quite different than what is spoken in France, and it'll take a while to catch on to what the locals are talking about even if you speak French well!




True. But also there is NO guarantee the blacks hired as trackers, staff etc will speak EVEN French.

A lot of PHs must have some ability in the local African languages to get by.



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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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EricD
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Re: Self-guided dangerous game hunting? [Re: NitroX]
      #64041 - 15/10/06 03:25 AM

Well said John. I forgot to mention that very vital piece of information.

I've experianced this in many west/central African countries myself when out in the middle of "no where". The locals living far away from cities often speak no other language than their tribal one, and hand signals have been the only way to communicate. And even when you are able to communicate in some way, the information you receive is often given to you depending on what they think you want to hear. So if they think you want to hear that there are lots of elephant in this or that direction, they will say so even if they know this is incorrect. This is partially a cultural thing, because it is considered impolite in many African cultures to give someone a negative answer. And thus, questions must be frased in the right way if you want to hear the truth. On the otherhand, sometimes the wrong answer is given just because they don't know, and prefer not to admit that they don't know. I've wasted a hundreds of kilometers of driving on the wrong tracks in Africa due to this! When hunting on your own, with trackers who you don't actually know and with whom don't speak a common language, this could be quite a big hurdle to overcome!

But it would certainly be an adventure anyway!

Erik


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Bonde
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Re: Self-guided dangerous game hunting? [Re: EricD]
      #64115 - 17/10/06 12:49 AM

Erik D: (nice to see fellow countrymen on the site, I see You've been fairly active here?)

Hehe, yes, I think the language barrier will be one of the greatest difficulties with such a trip.

Looks like I should try to learn french.. My employer would probably appreciate that aswell...

I studied at the agricultural university, and we had quite a lot of native africans studying at a special programme there (mostly commerce and development issues I think..). It might be a good idea to see if someone there would do some lessons in a common language for a particular area? They might want to learn some norwegian or more english aswell.

I thought of actually doing more of a foot-safari in heavy forested areas.. So I hope to skip the car and all the problems concerning them... Spending my huntingtime under a Landrover isn't what I plan to do...

In cameroon or central- africa: Travel on the rivers would probably be a better idea to get away from populated areas into real wilderness? And then walk into the more likely areas from the river.. I've also heard that the elephant in these areas hasn't been to hard poached as they're less accessible? Meaning I'm more likely to find a suitable one. Refering to the book "elephant buffalo and bongo" by von Meurers.

I won't cry if I go home home empty handed, because I'll then try again, and hopefulle stand a better chance since I've been there before..

Looks like I'll have a long winter learning foreign languages

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EricD
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Re: Self-guided dangerous game hunting? [Re: Bonde]
      #64130 - 17/10/06 03:08 AM

Bonde,

I am aware that you are thinking of a self guided hunt on foot. A Land Rover is simply the only method to get from A-B in some regions, just as a barge is needed to get up the Congo river from Kinshasa.

"Public" transport is not a problem in most places in Africa, although it can be far from comfortable to be stuffed into an overloaded Toyota mini-van, or sit onboard an overloaded motorized canoe on an African river.

But the difficulties involved in being on your own in west/central Africa all boil down to the same things really, independant on how you get to where you want to go. Logistically and otherwise.

Per various info I have from a friend who has spent quite a bit of time in DRC, searching for viable hunting grounds, you should be aware that you might have to walk for a week or two away from any travelled road or river in order to find "virgin" terrain that hasn't been poached. And the sad reality is that very few places in Africa are secluded enough to have kept poachers away. There aren't many river where you won't find any kind population to one degree or another.

I have the same impression from a recent magazine article regarding an experianced "Chasse Libre" hunters recent self guided hunt in Cameroon. (I don't remember off the top of my head if it was in Hatari Times or African Hunter???)

Having studied various maps of Cameroon earlier, I'd think you would need to get far down into the southeast corner, towards the Congo-Brazzaville and DRC border.

The trouble with west/central Africa is that you'd be suprised to see how many logging roads are being constantly built into new, untouched areas. And with this, the reach of the poachers expand... Keep in mind that Reinald von Meurers book is almost a decade old now, and things change fast down there!

But if you are truly prepared to come back empty handed, then you'll win anyway since the experiance itself will have been worthwhile IMO.

Whatever you decide to do (even though I still suggest you go on a tuskless ele or simular "cheap" hunt first to get a feel for Africa and elephant!), you should start out with finding some decent maps of the countries and regions that are of interest. And you will find that this is not always as easy as you'd think.

Also, if you are not up to date with taking care of yourself or others when it comes to diseases and medical emergencies, make sure you find a doctor who will teach you how to take care of such things as stitching wounds, and diagnosing tropical diseases. Having the correct type of anti-biotics, and knowing when and how to use them is vital when help is days or weeks away. I can assure you from my own experiances that this is necessary. I'd also recommend a book called "Where there is no Doctor" . It's written for health personel working far off the beaten track. I found it very helpful when trying to diagnose various illnesses my wife and I have had throughout Africa. It has lots of drawings, so it even helps you find out what kind of intestinal worms you're inflicted with. And you will very likely find that you need this kind of information!

Erik


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Self-guided dangerous game hunting? [Re: Bonde]
      #64135 - 17/10/06 03:20 AM

In reply to:

In cameroon or central- africa: Travel on the rivers would probably be a better idea to get away from populated areas into real wilderness? And then walk into the more likely areas from the river.. I've also heard that the elephant in these areas hasn't been to hard poached as they're less accessible? Meaning I'm more likely to find a suitable one.




A lot of "in accessible" areas would be very heavily poached, especially as Central African 'real wilderness' probably has sizable African populations, not all of them friendly either. I was speaking to one of our members the other day who has hunted reasonably extensively in Central Africa and the roving poacher gangs are truly bad news. They had to vacate an area for safety reasons ie not being shot or ambushed.

Africa might be big compared to Europe but it is not empty and "wilderness" is a relative term.

If someone was planning a safari like you are talking about and had no personal experience on the ground I would want to find a very experienced person and have some very good and long talks to the person to get first hand knowledge of where I would be heading and what the situation (the whole works) would likely be.

Harold Wolf who publishes the magazine 'Hatari Times' wrote an article of his attempts to do solo hunting, possibly in Cameroon, and if I remember rightly his first attempt was a complete fizzer and the second (again if I remember rightly) not much more successful but that time he at least got into the bush. And Harold has more experience than most guys you would "meet" on the net, or elsewhere. Find a copy of that edition of "Hatari Times".

There is also a book "Solo Safari" that will be listed on some of the safari book publishing catalogues. It might be worth a look too, but I can't say if it is any good or not. I have a copy but have never read it. I have seen some adverse reviews of the book.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (17/10/06 03:50 AM)


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EricD
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Re: Self-guided dangerous game hunting? [Re: NitroX]
      #64140 - 17/10/06 03:46 AM

John,

Excellent advice about finding someone to talk it over with. I know there used to be a Norwegian PH living/working in Cameroon, but I can't remember his name right now. I think he had close connections to some missionary groups (he grew up as a missionary kid in Cameroon). He'd be a good start for Bonde.

As for Harald Wolf, the article you're thinking of was about Gabon. I think the term FUBAR would be appropriate for those two trips!

Erik


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butchloc
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Re: Self-guided dangerous game hunting? [Re: EricD]
      #64145 - 17/10/06 04:21 AM

OK if you're really serious the first thing is to buy a book called buffalo, elephant and bongo vy von mearers available at safari press for $40 us. this is written by an M.D. who does just what you are talking about. Some of the problems you are going to run into besides language are governmental, logistics, theft, read the book. In zim at least you have a chance because the country is pretty civilized, in cameroon I believe you have a 50/50 chance of coming out alive. in anycase you must realize that you are going to be up against a pretty stiff wall.

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Bonde
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Re: Self-guided dangerous game hunting? [Re: butchloc]
      #64257 - 19/10/06 01:36 AM

A pretty stiff wall there is...! Try not to run head first then.. Anyhow, I think I'd probably be better off actually working overtime for the amount of time this will take, and pay for a regular hunt..?

I've got the two books mentioned, they sort of started this idea of mine, which other very experienced hunters as Harald Wolf has failed to pull it through. That wasn't actually good news.. I'll get that copy of Hatari as soon as possible.

I read in von Meuerers bokk that there was an outfitter who would get one started? I haven't followed that string yet, but there should be some opportunities?

The medical situation is of major concern, along with snakes and such. Travelling on the river isn't very safe either, so great care has to be taken..

What about the auction hunts in Zimbabwe, any outfitters who rent gear and car to independent hunters?


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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill

Edited by bonde (19/10/06 01:39 AM)


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Grizzly
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Re: Self-guided dangerous game hunting? [Re: Bonde]
      #64451 - 23/10/06 04:04 AM

You may also want to check out a chapter in a book out by Kai-Uwe Denker, a Namabian PH who ventured into Cameroon. I think the book is titled "Hunting Africa". I got it off of the Hunting Report site.

He pulls no punches when it comes to describing the EXTREME frustration is conducting a hunt in Cameroon. The issues are primarily a result of rampant corruption and mailise which permeate every layer of life there.

And this is from an African PH. Imagine what they would do is they really smelled "fresh meat"?

Sounds like this is a hunt on which to use extreme caution and maybe hire the ruler's brother as your agent.

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