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Michael
.275 member


Reged: 28/07/05
Posts: 69
Loc: Darwin, Northern Territory
Has anyone seen this article?
      #63138 - 27/09/06 06:11 PM

OK Guys, now before you all start shouting at me and calling me names for attempting to mention the unthinkable, I came across this article in a legitimate search for information on Pedersoli Double Rifles (still looking for some by the way).

I know that there seemed to be some heated debate on the 45/70 and it's suitability for large/dangerous game and I think that this offers some serious wieght to the argument for the 45/70 and it's potential.

Please click here: http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=289

Or cut and paste in your browser.

Do you think that this experience is for real? Or just some trumped up advertising for a particular ammunition manufacturer?

If this article has already been discussed in some detail please simply refer me to the link on this forum and excuse my intervention.

Thanks,

Michael.

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39885
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Has anyone seen this article? [Re: Michael]
      #63143 - 27/09/06 07:32 PM


Some selected passages:



The Elephant...The Kalahari.
Posted on Thursday, January 12 @ 13:36:27 PST
Topic: The Africa Chronicles

... raising heck, charging safari vehicles and causing a lot of troubles ...

... had faith that I could take down the elephant with my Pedersoli Double .45/70 rifle. Erik had just witnessed my taking a good hippo a few days earlier and on other safaris we had taken a lion and Cape buffalo with the same gun and Garrett Ammunition.

One problem was this bull was known for charging people and being very temperamental under the best of conditions.

When we located the bull, he needed to go down immediately!

.. "Don't back me up unless it becomes 100 percent necessary!"

We set off in hot pursuit on foot. Well in the heat of well over 100 degrees everything was hot, including our pursuit.

... under 30 yards for a side brain shot

... the last thing any of us wanted was 10 or 12 tons of P.O.'d pachyderm bearing down on us from short range!

... the Garrett bullet impacted with a puff of dust, I felt that I had pulled the shot ever so slightly, missing the brain just by an inch or so!

The bullet plowed a channel clear through the elephant's head; we could hear it whizzing through the air after it passed through three feet of elephant skull!

Amazingly, the bull just stood there, evidently stunned from the first shot. Firing the second barrel, that shot hit the mark and the bull dropped in his tracks!


Everyone was amazed at how well the .45/70 performed on such a huge and powerful animal. The bullets were simply amazing. I have taken lots of plains game, a lion, two Cape buffalo, and a hippo with this gun, but even I was unsure about the elephant. It was amazing how well it all went off. I'd like to thank Randy Garrett for making such an incredible bullet and helping me to fulfill my dream of taking an elephant with the .45/70.




--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39885
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Has anyone seen this article? [Re: NitroX]
      #63144 - 27/09/06 07:35 PM

Just my opinion but written in the typical bullshit gungho fashion other Garrett advertising articles have been written in.

I really doubt the bullet "whizzed" through the skull even with a side brain shot.

But I have no doubt an elephant could be killed with a properly loaded with appropriate projectile with a side brain shot if shot in the right place. Reason? A fellow client in a Matetsi camp in 2002 tested his Marlin .45/70 on a dead elephant he had shot with another rifle. They found the penetration adequate.

But what really amazes me with a Garrett "advertising" article was NO CHARGES!!!!.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Bloodnativ
.275 member


Reged: 14/11/04
Posts: 69
Loc: South Carolina, USA
Re: Has anyone seen this article? [Re: Michael]
      #63145 - 27/09/06 10:04 PM

Interesting. I had not seen this particular article but I do recall an article a few years ago about a guy who took the Big Five with a Marlin lever gun in 45/70 and Garrett Ammo. It was also a Garrett "advetisement" as this article seems to have been. I don't doubt that the 45/70 can do the job but why would you when there are sooooo many other rounds that are so much better suited, especially when what you're hunting fights back. It might be ok for some of the thin skinned DG like lion or leopard but I think most experienced people would consider it more marginal that the 375 H&H.

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Michael
.275 member


Reged: 28/07/05
Posts: 69
Loc: Darwin, Northern Territory
Re: Has anyone seen this article? [Re: NitroX]
      #63146 - 27/09/06 10:07 PM

I must admit it did seem like an article that was written by an advertising consultant rather than a hunter, as it managed to have every cliche packed into this short story.

Although it was a interesting note Nitro X of your friends experience with the shot into the dead elephant. I guess the main difference is whether it could do it (drop the elephent that is) when the sh#t hits the fan and he had to face a charge. I know that I would want something more substantial that Mr Garrett's product stuffed into the chamber of my gun in that scenario.

Just thought it was an interesting article. Looks like you can't believe everything you read on the net. LOL.

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Has anyone seen this article? [Re: Michael]
      #63148 - 27/09/06 11:11 PM

Sounds like advertisment bullshit to me.



--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Double_Trouble
.375 member


Reged: 27/04/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Re: Has anyone seen this article? [Re: Michael]
      #63150 - 27/09/06 11:33 PM

The bullet plowed a channel clear through the elephant's head; we could hear it whizzing through the air after it passed through three feet of elephant skull!
how could you you hear the bullet whizzing with all the bullshit dropping ?
LMFAO!

yeah right!

--------------------
Double Trouble,
Speak not of what you do not know.
Listen up when it's time to.

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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Has anyone seen this article? [Re: tinker]
      #63151 - 27/09/06 11:34 PM

Side brain shots are easy from a penetration standpoint.

A true test of any caliber is a frontal brain shot when the elephant has his head raised and 3 feet of trunk must be penetrated before the bullet even hits the skull.

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39885
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Has anyone seen this article? [Re: 500grains]
      #63159 - 28/09/06 03:39 AM

The other client who tried a .45/70 on a dead elephant shot it with a .460 A-square (?) or a .500 A-square.

He planned to try it for real the next year which would have been in 2003. Bret Hein was the PH. As some of the members here hunt occasionally with Brent maybe someone could ask one day if it happened and how it went.

The guy sounded reasonably experienced so he probably did it OK.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Rusty
.333 member


Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas
Re: Has anyone seen this article? [Re: NitroX]
      #63161 - 28/09/06 03:48 AM

I'm just waiting for the Marlin Safari Grades 45/70 to be announced!

--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!
DRSS

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empirevr
.375 member


Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
Re: Has anyone seen this article? [Re: Rusty]
      #63168 - 28/09/06 06:40 AM

Um,wow........

In this case........i'll go buy a nice 500x3" black powder rifle and go elephant chasing.......

Ben

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Has anyone seen this article? [Re: Double_Trouble]
      #63169 - 28/09/06 07:08 AM

Double_Trouble

I agree about the Bullshit and question the statement "The bullet plowed a channel clear through the elephant's head" however you can often here a bullet whiz out the other side when shooting game.

I have heard softs and solids after existing on Buffalo - and they do "whiz". Maybe just a lot less bullshit dropping when I go hunting !!! The best bit is when they hit a tree with a crack or a thud after exiting.

The article is just like any other gun writer - looking after sponsors, advertisers etc.

500 Nitro

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CCMonster31
.224 member


Reged: 03/07/06
Posts: 7
Loc: NC, USA
Re: Has anyone seen this article? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #63170 - 28/09/06 07:26 AM

"However the other PH's involved were very uncertain and continued to talk of backing me up with much 'stronger' guns."

Thats enough for me right there. Pretty much this article is telling us what we already know. Jumbo CAN be taken with less than an earth shattering cannon, ie Bell with his 275, but that doesnt qualify the round as an adequate African big game cartridge, and most certainly not as a stopping round.

--------------------
For a boy to want to spend his time in the woods with a good dog and a gun is a natural and healthy desire.To dress up and go prancing around a floor with some young girl is sheer stupidity. JA Hunter

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empirevr
.375 member


Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
Re: Has anyone seen this article? [Re: CCMonster31]
      #63171 - 28/09/06 09:55 AM

Great pig round......longer ranging with the Garrett,while at the same time subjecting your gun to higher than originally intended pressures.

Africa?with this as my armament? no......

Think i'd have more faith even in the old 9.3 mauser.....

Ben

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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Has anyone seen this article? [Re: empirevr]
      #63175 - 28/09/06 10:56 AM

I can assure you from experience that the Pedersoli will not regulate with these whizz-bang up-loaded rounds. No matter what anybody says, that's crap.

Mine would shoot standard 405 grain Remington factory ammo and its equivalent, but nothing else. I tried, and I know a little about double rifle regulation.

The Pedersoli as a DG rifle is a myth.

Curl



--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Has anyone seen this article? [Re: CptCurl]
      #63179 - 28/09/06 12:57 PM

Don't think I would want to tangle with a bull ele with his 45-70 setup.Ain't gonna happen.I value my life too much. I don't give a flip how much propaganda Garrett puts out.

For me, 500 NE, or maybe 470 NE for such a confrontation,, but a lesser cailiber shooting solids is just asking to get fatally charged.Don't want to be some Ele's "toe jelly" due to stupidity.


--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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Rusty
.333 member


Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas
Re: Has anyone seen this article? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #63226 - 30/09/06 01:31 AM

Several years ago Perry Newman had his 45/70 Pedersoli rebored to 450#2. The rifle shot POI to the 45/70 without re-regulation. Perry took the rifle to Africa and had a great time with it. As I remember he termed the recoil of the light rifle in 450#2 as "Brisk".

--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!
DRSS

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