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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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ThomasEdwards
.300 member


Reged: 04/01/04
Posts: 246
Loc: Newport Beach, CA
Re: Why big bores? [Re: cr500]
      #27849 - 17/03/05 02:38 AM

...actually, to get to the legal speed limit in 4.2 - 4.7 seconds...preferably using naturally aspired bored-out big block engines...

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Marty
.300 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 123
Loc: Darwin. NT, Australia
Re: Why big bores? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #27933 - 18/03/05 10:26 AM

In reply to:

Americans are of the mind there will be no soldier left behind, wounded, or dead!


This is really a bit of BS propaganda that seems to have crept into the US military psyche in the post Vietnam era. The US is notorious for leaving people behind and thats why they stick to that mantra. If you tell a lie often enough it becomes truth.

The US has left people behind at just about every war since WW2. In the Phillipines it was as a result of unfortunate circumstances and military neccesity, but in Korea and Vietnam it was out of political expiediency and that is pretty apalling. Somalia folks were left behind again. And it is suspected that it may have again occured at the end of Gulf War 1. The portrayal of "Leave no one behind" only exists because the US has continually done so. I'm not trying to flame even though it looks like that, but the myth in no way reflects the reality.

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__________________________________


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atkinson6
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: Why big bores? [Re: luv2safari]
      #28590 - 30/03/05 06:32 AM

I have shot a lot of deer and antelope with the 223, 22-250 and .243..they are hamburger machines, they bloodshot the hell out of a deer size animal and ruin a lot of meat..

A 375 or 416 will bloodshoot a baseball size area and punch a caliber size hole in and out and kill very quickly..take your pick...

I have killed Buffalo with the 7x57, 8x57, 30-06 and .308 and they do not die very quickly unless the brain or spine is hit with a solid. and sometimes the spine shot doesn't work as well as expected..A heart lung shot Buffalo with one of the lighter calibers just simply lives too long and if that length of time is expended on hunting you then you have problems..Many of those farmers etc. that you speak of ended up pushing up daisies or recovering from wounds, otherwise all the professional hunters in Africa would be using small caliber rifles...

Bottom line is believe only half of what you read and hear on killing game animals, but use enough gun, or someday you will loose a fine game animal because you got too cocky...


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45LCshooter
.224 member


Reged: 15/06/05
Posts: 5
Loc: Kiowa, AL USA
Re: Why big bores? [Re: DucofDeath3]
      #33183 - 16/06/05 03:07 PM

Easier to detect misfires....

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All that's gold does not glitter. Not all those who wander are lost.

--J.R.R. Tolkien


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Why big bores? [Re: 45LCshooter]
      #33186 - 16/06/05 03:37 PM



Bottom line is believe only half of what you read and hear on killing game animals, but use enough
gun, or someday you will loose a fine game animal because you got too cocky...

Cocky is the right word - So well said.

Sounds like 6.5mm on Water Buffalo ......................



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Peterb
.333 member


Reged: 07/07/04
Posts: 288
Re: Why big bores? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #34262 - 03/07/05 03:27 PM

I thought that was the Duck of Death.

Anyways, I started out with the 300W'by and moved both lower and bigger as any gun nut should. I've shot everything with everything. Sometimes smaller kills faster...on smallish game. Bigger kills faster on big game. When game is dangerous, what would you really pick?


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Why big bores? [Re: Peterb]
      #34264 - 03/07/05 04:07 PM


Peterb

"When game is dangerous, what would you really pick? "

I thought going after an Elephant with a 22 or 222 might be interesting
but I'll wait and see how NitroX does with 6.5 on Buffalo first ................. !!!

500 Nitro


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rgp
.333 member


Reged: 17/06/04
Posts: 373
Loc: TX & VIC
Re: Why big bores? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #34267 - 03/07/05 04:54 PM

I think a more appropriate question is why would anyone pick a smallbore?

Smallbore shooters tend to claim a flat trajectory and ability to kill something a million miles away, and most of those stories are gross miscalculation of range...but even for long range use, they are inferior to big bores because the only constant at long range is bullet weight and diameter. The "low recoil" bit is theoretically correct but go lift some weights to work on your shoulder if the recoil is bothersome. It is something that can be easily worked up to and then if you want you can play with a .30/06 like it was a .22. The small rifles may weigh less, but the difference is not that significant and ease of carrying the firearm normally seems more dependent on how well it is balanced rather than weight.

Big bore rifles I've had have generally been more accurate than the peewee guns, the big bore guns have all had better balance than the smallbore guns, and with a .375 or a .458 you can pick one load and use that one load on anything. Even the .45-70 Marlins I've had have been more accurate than most smallbore rifles I've owned.

I don't own a double rifle yet but am planning to get one so I can't comment on big bore doubles (that is why I've pestered several of you with questions on double rifles).

Richard


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Peterb
.333 member


Reged: 07/07/04
Posts: 288
Re: Why big bores? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #34307 - 04/07/05 01:06 PM

Bell of Africa did well on elephant with the 6.5 x 54 but later said with their changed habits, he would prefer a 375 H&H. I have a Searcy 470 double which would be my choice. That is only, of course, because I do not have a 45-70 ;-) But with deer, I am as confident with my 6mm Rem as my 300 W'by. One must be realistic or one may be dead.

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458RugerNo1
.224 member


Reged: 04/03/04
Posts: 24
Loc: Mtns of the Desert Southwest, ...
Re: Why big bores? [Re: atkinson6]
      #34787 - 18/07/05 06:59 AM

Ray pretty much has said it all...

As for me, I simply like the heavy calibers. Their recoil is not an issue to me, in either .375 H&H or .458 Win, and they're fun to shoot and load for. It's really just that simple - they're a blast to shoot.

Yes, I have a .243 Win and like it very much, it's a sweet little rifle that I have for 'yotes, jacks, javelina, etc. When deer season rolls around or for hogs or anything larger than deer I reach for my Ruger RSM .375 H&H most of the time. It's a beautiful rifle, it's accurate and simply a favorite of mine.

All the comments ref blooshot meat are quite true... Nearly all high velocity traditional "deer" cartridges do more meat damage than the heavy calibers do. Also depending what round you're using and the bullet you've selected you may be limited as to your shot angles, placement, etc. With a .375 or .458 there's no such thing as a shot I can't take if it's within range - no matter what size animal you're talking about - deer or moose, grizz, etc. That big, modest-velocity slug will punch end to end if necessary.

To those who are recoil shy and have trouble placing shots well with the heavier calibers, yes it's probably best to stay with cartridges they can shoot well. Shot placement is the most important single factor in dropping game. However for those who are not bothered by recoil it gives an advantage that the lighter calibers cannot give.

Also, for those who do hunt dangerous game and want to learn and know their rifle instinctively, there's nothing like getting out with it and USING it frequently and as often as possible. Target ranges are often very limited as to what you can do as far as training. For sighting in and benchrest work they're tops, but nothing beats getting out in the mountains or fields and shooting from kneeling, sitting or prone thru the grass, brush, over rocks, up and down hill, etc. So taking that .470 or .458 out at deer or elk season is a great way to train basically.

--------------------
God Bless old Elmer Keith!


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SeekHer
.224 member


Reged: 01/08/05
Posts: 17
Loc: Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada
Re: Why big bores? [Re: DucofDeath3]
      #37502 - 15/09/05 04:48 AM

I think I'll ask you the reverse of your question. Why do you use such puny calibers for your hunting, isn't that underkill?

Many places have outlawed the use of .22 cal on deer sized and larger game animals...the reason, too many crippled animals.

I expect that you use your .223 for varmints and your .243 for where deer and antelope play...absolutely nothing wrong with that...thousands have done the exact same thing...I sometimes, actually mostly, use a 6.5 X 55 for deer.

The term knock down power comes to play here. Would you take a shot at a 240 point/14 count deer, standing nearly, not quite butt/rear/tail end facing you...the only shot you've got--though some very light brush--with your .243. shooting for the bullet to travel the length of the body, from just ahead of the rear leg, behind the rib cage to the chest...You could shoot but the bullet would never reach any of the vital organs...someone shooting a .300 would make it...a .338 has a much better chance..and with a .375, no problem...but the impact of the bullet upon the nervous system, with a heavier bullet would, using a writer's term, cement him right there, probably, wouldn't take but a few steps (staggering) and go down. Surprisingly there is little meat damage but the internal organs are sure a mess.

I was hunting moose with a buddy who was using a .340 or a .378 Weatherby--can't remember which--and placed seven (7) shots, yes 7 shots, his last 7, through the heart/lung area of a standing broad side moose at about 120 yards distance. The beastie kept on eating for about 15 minutes, took a few steps and dropped.

I was using a Browning BLR in .358 Win Mag and met my moose at about 90 yards, placed one round in the heart/lung area, he trotted about 25 yards and piled up.

A First Nations (Indian) fiend of mine, canoed to about 20 yards from his moose and placed one in the brain. The moose grunted, took a step and keeled over. He was shot with a .22 LR standard velocity solid point--highly illegal, by the way.

What I'm saying is that there is good or bad stories, confirming or denying the greatness or lameness, of either small, very fast bullets or slow, big bullets.

But we shouldn't cast aspersions on our fellow hunters/shooters just because they are using something different than us. We have enough problems and hassles from the anti gun/hunting people as it is! Why add more? Why add more fuel for themto flame? Give them something to divide us! Make their stand more powerful!
In reply to:






--------------------
There is a certain type of mentality that thinks
if you make certain inanimate objects illegal
their criminal misuse will disappear!


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Scott
.275 member


Reged: 11/01/05
Posts: 89
Loc: Florida, USA
Re: Why big bores? [Re: SeekHer]
      #37527 - 15/09/05 12:41 PM

Amen to that.

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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Why big bores? [Re: Scott]
      #37531 - 15/09/05 12:56 PM

This is one old thread.

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"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"


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Gibbs505
.333 member


Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 442
Loc: BC, Canada
Re: Why big bores? [Re: bonanza]
      #37541 - 15/09/05 03:22 PM

Indeed!

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So I can't spell, so what?

Those who beat their swords into ploughshares, will plough for those who don't!

Those who fail to learn from history will be doomed to repeat it


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