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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Best BUFF KILLER-416 Rigby Soft vs 500 NE Soft???
      #63012 - 25/09/06 01:13 PM

Intriquing question regarding Buff--

Which round is the better KILLER not STOPPER?
416 Rigby vs 500 NE??

Both cartridges have 5500+ ft pounds enegy--
We are comparing mass, frontal area, and velocity for effect.

The ?high velocity 416 at 2500+ fps pushing a premium soft like a Swift A Frame or North Fork soft with a SD of .330 vs a
hammer like the 500 Woodleigh at 2150 with a SD of .304.

Does high velocity/higher SD with a premium soft penetrate and kill better than the larger diameter 500 NE?Do the softs ever exit like solids? The 500NE is the better STOPPER but is it the better KILLER? Is less pentration there?

Similar energies, but 416 velocity has a better SD but smaller diameter vs a slower, larger,? less penetrating relative lower SD "crusher"..

If you could shoot both equally well which one would you choose as BUFF KILLER, not STOPPER?? WHY?

Dead is Dead. Is this purely personal preference with the deciding factor being other performance parameters?

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (25/09/06 01:22 PM)

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Best BUFF KILLER-416 Rigby Soft vs 500 NE Soft??? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #63020 - 25/09/06 08:55 PM

hoppdoc:
Easy answer IMHO. When you hit a big animal in a vital spot other than the spine or brain with a typical NE round, there is usually no evidence of shock as such. The animal will recieve the bullet, and then most likely run, or rarely charge, depending on its demeanor at the time, and other circumstances. If the calibre is above .400 or so, the animal will probably show signs of being hit. If below .400 it probably won't, and may appear to be bolting from the sound of the shot.

With a striking velocity above maybe 2300 fps or so, there is a high likelihood that the animal will be 'shocked', and with an over-.40 bullet, it may actually drop to the shot. This will almost never happen with the .500 NE, but may happen with a stoked-up Rigby. This is non-CNS shots through the boiler-room we're talking about here.

The trade-off is that the big-slow-moving bullet is probably more certainly fatal, but not instantaneously. The faster bullet may cause instant death by shock, or at least knock the animal over, but if it doesn't, there is a higher likelihood of a long tracking job. Using premium bullets like Woodleighs will improve confidence at the higher velocity of course.

I believe the .416 Rigby with premium bullets would be the best hunting rifle for buffalo. It is lighter than a .500, easier to shoot well, and will certainly do the job. If the custard pie begins to fly however, give me a .500 double any day!

That's my take....

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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500grains
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Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Best BUFF KILLER-416 Rigby Soft vs 500 NE Soft [Re: Marrakai]
      #63036 - 25/09/06 11:47 PM

Since cape buffalo are not shocked by the 460 Wby or 378 Wby, I would not expect to observe shock effects from the 416 Rigby either. Therefore I would use the rifle which I shoot more accurately from field positions.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39884
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Best BUFF KILLER-416 Rigby Soft vs 500 NE Soft [Re: 500grains]
      #63047 - 26/09/06 03:15 AM

Either sounds like fine buffalo killers to me. However I would think a .500 NE through the shoulder(s) breaking bone will almost certainly flatten the buffalo. A follow up shot or shots might be required to kill it a bit quicker. That certainly has been my experience with a .450, don't know about the .416.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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butchloc
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Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 230
Loc: faribault mn
Re: Best BUFF KILLER-416 Rigby Soft vs 500 NE Soft [Re: 500grains]
      #63059 - 26/09/06 06:30 AM

i've shot buff with both a 416 and a 470. never had a 500, but in my experience the buff appeared to take the hit from a 470 much harder than the 416, the penetration for both calibers was about the same, but the interior damage from the 470 was definately greater.

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Best BUFF KILLER-416 Rigby Soft vs 500 NE Soft [Re: Marrakai]
      #63061 - 26/09/06 06:38 AM


hopdoc

What Marrakai says about above 2300fps definately has some basis in fact - although I think the magic MV figure is 2400fps which probably equates to 2300 at the animal.

I will say that a .510 inch bullet from a 500 cal definately shows an effect when hit - I have seen on numerous occasions the "ripples" going down the body of Buff when when hit.
I haven't seen this on +40 cals, sub 50 cal - 404, 416 (and to an extent 470).
As to how quick they die, alot of other factors come into play - where you hit them, how full the heart is, whether you hit or clip the spinl cord, etc etc.
I shoot a 500 well so that is what I use but I would be comfortable with 404, 416 etc.
I will say that I see people with 416's and they aren't as nice to shoot - too fast a recoil - I prefer a long hard shove to the short sharp crack of a 416.
500 Nitro

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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Best BUFF KILLER-416 Rigby Soft vs 500 NE Soft [Re: 500Nitro]
      #63068 - 26/09/06 09:22 AM

I don't find shock to be overly effective on Buffalo. Unless the spine or brain is hit or damaged the only thing that will drop a buffalo in his tracks, in my experience is when one or both shoulders is broken badly. With all else equal, the bigger the dia of the bullet if a solid, or the best expansion of a soft bullet inflicts a larger wound channel , hence faster bleed out. Personally I believe today's fine soft bullets are the real choice for buffalo if one is to be used exclusively, over the other. I personally use a combination of both, or NOW am looking hard at the North Fork CUP POINT, as a do-all, in a 470NE. It seems to expand just enough to make a bigger hole, but retains all it's weight to break bones, and punch through, for a good blood trail!

Between the .416 or 500NE to choose between, if both were in a double rifle I would choose the 500NE, if the .416 was in a bolt rifle, I'd then choose the 500NE again!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Best BUFF KILLER-416 Rigby Soft vs 500 NE Soft [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #63077 - 26/09/06 12:41 PM

Reading info from other sites(470Mbogo.com) suggests the 416 penetrates slightly better [in solid bullet trials] but that the momentum transfered to the animal is much less than the 500 NE.

I doubt the Buff will collapse due to that momentum but presumably a 500 NE can break shoulders better than a 416.

I would like to know the expanded diameter of both bullets but again I will presume the 500 NE soft is larger.

Given the larger soft nose expanded diameter and the better shoulder breaking momentum, even with a slightly diminshed penetration I think I would want the 500 NE.The other thing is the books I read constantly stating the buff were just not impressed by high velocity rounds makes me concerned..I assume softs were included in these statemments. Modern bonded softs may change this impression.

I think the 500NE would be the better and more consistent KILLER as well as the better stopper but alas I have no Buffalo experience! Thanks much to those who responded and do!!

Hence all the questions--

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (26/09/06 01:10 PM)

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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Best BUFF KILLER-416 Rigby Soft vs 500 NE Soft [Re: hoppdoc]
      #63082 - 26/09/06 01:54 PM



The middle bullet is a 570 grain .510" Woodleigh soft fired into an elephant's chest from a 500 Nitro. The right hand bullet is the same, fired into a cape buffalo's head, through the bridge of the nose.

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Best BUFF KILLER-416 Rigby Soft vs 500 NE Soft [Re: 500grains]
      #63083 - 26/09/06 02:03 PM


500 grains

That is exactly what I have found.

The jaw and head bones of animals are extremely hard.

A good example.

500 Nitro

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