Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: I don't need one, but...

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***

Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

Pages: 1
Holmes
.300 member


Reged: 01/12/03
Posts: 159
Loc: Wyoming, USA
I don't need one, but...
      #6277 - 30/12/03 03:39 PM

I damn sure want a double in 375 Flanged.

Love my pre-64 H&H, but I WANT a double

Being a tax slave, I haven't got a grundle of cash but I would like to buy a new rifle as opposed to a used one.

What manufacturers/models would you guys recommend for an economical double in 375 Flanged?

It'll take me a year or so to get up the scratch but it'll happen. There SHALL be a double in my cabinet before I reach the double nickel.

Thanks for your opinions.

-Holmes


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: I don't need one, but... [Re: Holmes]
      #6332 - 01/01/04 07:50 AM

Holmes, Check out Butch Searcy's website www.searcyent.com for the PH Model $9500 built to fit you!

The deposit is half, and if you save 3/4 of the price then you only have 1/4 of the total to pay when the rifle is ready, in about 7 months. He builds the rifle to fit you! By the time he's finished with your rifle you can have the other 1/4. This makes it nice, not to have to shell out the whole ticket at once!

If you have a credit union, where you can borrow up to $10,000 on an un secured loan, then you can borrow the total amount, with small payments over a couple years!You wont do better in a new double rifle chambered for 375 H&H flanged!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: I don't need one, but... [Re: Holmes]
      #6368 - 01/01/04 10:10 PM

Holmes,

I have a 375 Flanged Magnum in a Rigby Sidelock (the proper English one, not the US copies)

You will love the calibre - don't let people persuade you to go 9.3 x 74.

Brass and Dies and Bullets are readily available for the 375 Flanged Magnum
and will be for as long as I can see. Brass is available from at least 3 Manufacturers.
If you ever have a problem getting some, email me as I have 200 + and can spare a few
or can put you in touch with the manufacturers.

Can't recommend a Modern maker - will leave that to others who know the Searcy's etc.
I would however stay away from the Krieghoff due to the Cocking / Decking system.

Good luck in your venture.

500 Nitro



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Holmes
.300 member


Reged: 01/12/03
Posts: 159
Loc: Wyoming, USA
Re: I don't need one, but... [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #6478 - 04/01/04 06:35 AM

Hey DUGABOY1,

Great minds think alike

That is the very rifle I have been drooling over for a while.

Your comments regarding financing are interesting and I will certainly consider them.

I was chatting about with friends recently and told them I was working toward an economical double. They know even less than I about these special creatures and nearly fell off their stools when I told them the cost of a basic double.

Of course, they don't bat an eye at a shotgun that costs nearly as much.

Different strokes, eh?!

Thanks.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Holmes
.300 member


Reged: 01/12/03
Posts: 159
Loc: Wyoming, USA
Re: I don't need one, but... [Re: 500Nitro]
      #6480 - 04/01/04 06:41 AM

I think the 9.3x74 is a great cartridge but I'll be stickin' with the 375 Flanged.

I hunted everything for many years with my 375 H&H and the cartridge is simply magical. Easy to shoot, easy to load, very effective on game of many sizes, etc.

It's really quite amazing that the 375 still sets the standards by which we judge the newcomers.

300 grains @ 2500 = full freezer

Take care.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: I don't need one, but... [Re: Holmes]
      #6486 - 04/01/04 07:59 AM

Holmes:

One of my regular hunting partners has a Krieghoff in .375 Flanged Magnum that is extremely accurate and a real joy to shoot. It would be fine for non-dangerous game. However, I agree with 500 Nitro, the safety precludes it from serious consideration for use on dangerous game.

Mac is a friend of mine and is an old double rifle hand. I have a lot of respect for his views, but we have never agreed about the Searcy. Oh well, differences are what make the world go round. To be candid, the Searcy is, to me, a crude, cheap, sophomoric imitation of a double rifle that Butch has the gonads to ask a lot of money for. Some folks have bought them and seem happy, but I wonder how much experience they've had with quality double rifles. I think Searcy catches a lot of first time double rifle buyers - folks who don't know any better because they don't know any different.

Holmes, I strongly suggest that you look at as many double rifles, including second-hand English, as you can before you buy. Second-hand English boxlock doubles in .375 Flanged Magnum in nice shape are available in the same price range. Better rifles and money much better spent.
---------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: I don't need one, but... [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #6487 - 04/01/04 08:22 AM

400Nitro

re: Searcy

Couldn't agree more. You and I may be the only people around who think this way. I referred to them as a brick with broomhandles for barrels and caught abit of grief. I feel that I am in good company now.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Holmes
.300 member


Reged: 01/12/03
Posts: 159
Loc: Wyoming, USA
Re: I don't need one, but... [Re: mickey]
      #6488 - 04/01/04 08:42 AM

Gentlemen,

Points taken. And thank you for your input.

I represent a classic case of a prospective newbie double buyer. In order to educate myself, I shall have to travel a bit and hit some of the more prominent shows to see these rifles in person. Wyoming does not offer a lot of opportunity to study the arms!

As I muddle my way through this venture, I shall keep you all up to speed and query your expertise.

It's really nice to have such a range of expertise available here.

Thanks to all.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: I don't need one, but... [Re: mickey]
      #6489 - 04/01/04 09:02 AM

Mick:

I've always pictured it this way: A British best boxlock double rifle is a Ferrari and the Searcy is a cab-over Peterbilt.
------------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: I don't need one, but... [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #6490 - 04/01/04 09:07 AM


Holmes,

Just a quick qualification of my Statement "I would however stay away from the Krieghoff due to the
Cocking / Decocking system" As 400NitroExpress correctly pointed out, my statement was only referring
to the Krieghoff's use as a Dangerous Game / Stopping rifle.

Merkel - I have a Merkel 470 which someone described when referring to the balanace of it as like
"2 Railway Lines welded together". For the price it does what it's supposed to do.

400NitroExpress Re Searcy - I have heard both people who describe them as you do and others who love them
but I think that you comment "folks who don't know any better because they don't know any different" is very true
in a lot of ways - those that understand the build quality, balance, feel and handling of an English Double Rifle
(or most of them anyway) go for a 2nd hand English Double.

Holmes - I know of 2 x English 375 Flanged doubles purchased in the US last year that were the same price or just above
as the top Searcy so 2nd hand English Doubles are likely to come up.

500 Nitro

.




Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2470
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: I don't need one, but... [Re: 500Nitro]
      #6507 - 04/01/04 02:34 PM

Okay, Gentleman you make a valid point on a problem with the Krieghoff Safety decocking system.

But there is nothing of substance in the Searcy criticism.

Since I am not a double gun person, just a wannabe, enlighten me with why I should stay away from a peterbilt and go for the ferrari instead when I decide that a two shooter is better that a single shooter.

What's wrong with Searcy guns? Tell me the whys, please.

--------------------
DD, Ret.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: I don't need one, but... [Re: DoubleD]
      #6515 - 04/01/04 08:25 PM

DoubleD:

Since you have informed us that "I am not a double gun person, just a wannabe" and based on that experience you have decided that "there is nothing of substance in the Searcy criticism", it would seem that your question is moot.

Be that as it may, the four of us who posted comments regarding the Searcy - Mac, Mickey, 500 Nitro and myself - all come from the same perspective, we all have owned and used various British double rifles over the years. It is hard to explain the difference to someone who has not had that experience, and Mac's cut is a little different. Yeah, its subjective, but not very.

Go buy yourself a nice second-hand British boxlock double rifle and live with it a good long while. Shoot it, clean it, carry it, hunt with it. Then go handle a Searcy. That will answer your question, I promise.
---------------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2470
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: I don't need one, but... [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #6519 - 05/01/04 12:06 AM

400NE,

I guess what I'm asking Is it a subjective thing or is there something substantive about Searcy's that makes them less that desireable?

For Instance, like Martini single shots. I enjoy shooting and hunting with them.

I also know that a Ruger Number One is a better overall serious hunting rifle.

The Ruger has a safety the Martini doesn't. The Ruger is less bulky and swings better. The Ruger has a better range of calibers than the Martini. The Ruger is easier to mount a scope on than the Martini. The Ruger has a better load angle than Martini. The Martini has a faster lock time than the Ruger.
The Martini is easier to field strip for cleaning than the Ruger. The Ruger can be cleaned from the breech, the Martini can't.

I still like my Martini's, but for serious hunting give me a Ruger Number One.

What should I look for? I come to this board to look for the answers from those who have the experience. I a long time ago passed the stage of "Yes sir, Aye Aye sir, 3 bags full sir" Now I ask why.

I don't doubt your word, I just don't know what you know. Please educate me, but don't expect me to accept "because I say so"








--------------------
DD, Ret.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rusty
.333 member


Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas
Re: I don't need one, but... [Re: Holmes]
      #6524 - 05/01/04 08:08 AM

Holmes I think you will like the 375 flanged! A friend of 400 Nitro's has a set of barrels for his Kreighoff and is pleased with them.

Mac, and I are friends. 400 Nitro and I are best friends.
We and several of our hunting buddies have a love for any double rifle and a greater love and admiration for old English double rifles. There is just something in the grace of balance and lines of splinter forearms and 26" barrels.

I think Mac's Merkel in 9.3X74R is a great value in a double rifle. Beautiful case coloring and comes to battery and points like a finely made .410 double barrel shotgun. It is a delight to shoot.

I have a great deal of respect and admiration for Butch Searcy. I think he manufactures the best made double rifle on the North American Continent. I have visited with him at the Dallas Safari Club Show. He had all the time in the world for me, even though he knew I wasn't going to buy one of his doubles. He as posted and fielded questions on AccurateReloading.com. He provided one of his doubles for the Double Rifle Raffle we held over at AR. He is a stand up guy doing his best to make it in finite market place.

Now having said all that, I'd still probably buy a used English rifle. For me Price plays a big role in what I'm going to buy in my double rifle. By the time you add chopper lump barrels, splinter forearm, dolls head, and 26" barrels if you can find them, the price goes way up. Outta my range. Now, what I like may not be the best double rifle for you, but then again it's my money! To tell you the truth, if the price were right, I'd buy every one I could! I wouldn't care who made them!

When you buy a double it will be your money and you'd better get what you like! Just my opine!



--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!

DRSS


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: I don't need one, but... [Re: DoubleD]
      #6526 - 05/01/04 09:30 AM


I also feel that some of the "best" doubles were made in England.
However don't let that put you off guns made elsewhere.
The thing is that, when buying your first double, it can be hard to determine how well a particular gun will work for you.
Just buying any pre war English double will not guarantee that it will do everything right for you.
You really need to handle and shoot different doubles untill you can aquire a "feel" for them.
Then you will soon come to know what works and fits and ballances and feels best for you.
When I was fiancial enough to buy my first double, I was prepared to accept almost any reliable gun, and worry about fit and feel later.
Thesedays, I would definately want to handle any double before buying it, unless it was a bargain too good to refuse.
For me, I want a double that fits well, handles well, and is not too heavy, and that functions reliably.
It would of course have to shoot well and also have to be affordable.
If a gun fills these requirements, I am not too concerned if it was not of English make.

I cannot give any advice regarding the Searcy as I have never handled one.



Edited by 4seventy (05/01/04 09:34 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rusty
.333 member


Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas
Re: I don't need one, but... [Re: 4seventy]
      #6532 - 05/01/04 11:24 AM

4Seventy is absolutely right about buying a used double rifle. If the road to Hell is paved with good intentions, the path to a good used double is even worse, if you don't know what you are looking out for. Most of us don't know!
Been there done that and bought the T-Shirt.

If you want a double rifle the best thing to do is be patience and seek the advice of someone who does know. If the person you are buying a used double rifle from won't let you have it checked out or shoot it as a precurser to your buying the rifle. You need to find another deal, or be prepared to fix the problems it might have!

Hard to believe, but there are those folks who will just like to take your money! The old saw about an ounce of prevention applies to being cautious when buying a used double.


--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!

DRSS


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: I don't need one, but... [Re: DoubleD]
      #6537 - 05/01/04 03:22 PM

DD

I think that part of the nebulousness of the answers is do to the subjective nature of the question. 400, 470 and Rusty are all correct but what we are taking about is a 'NEW' rifle for US$10,000 vs a 'USED' one for the same approximate price.

The cost of a 'NEW' Best Quality English Rifle would be in the high 20s and up. It is no surprise that a 10k rifle doesn't stack up. A Searcy is a very good rifle, for what it is and what it is intended to be. It is not a Best Quality English rifle or even close.

Searcy's are, I'm told, made from better steel than older rifles and because of this can do away with the third fastner and Chopper Lump barrels. They contend it is not necessary because of the size of their actions, I think it is because it is cheaper to make them this way. Because of the size of the actions and monoblocked barrels I find them clubby and awkward to handle compared to my English guns. They are evidently aware of this as I understand that they have been reconfigured with the new price increase.

I think that a Double Rifle should feel almost femine, slim, quick, well balanced and a pleaure to handle. It should be an extension of your hands and arms. The Searcy and other similiar rifles just don't have this. If you play with a number of English Rifles and others you will understand. Like Pornography, you'll know it when you see it.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2470
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: I don't need one, but... [Re: mickey]
      #6552 - 06/01/04 12:27 AM

So what I think I hear all you fellas saying is-that it is a subjective thing. Much like the old argument which rifle is better Remington-Winchester-Ruger. Or the other favorite U.S. one, Fords are better than Chevy's

I need to look not at the mechanical alone but the subjective especially.

How does the rifle feel to me!

How does it fit me!

Can I operate it comfortably!

Does the caliber suit my needs!

Does it have features that I need for my type of shooting!

I get it now!

Well I have 4 years to look. I retire in 4 years and I intend to give myself a double rifle for a retirement gift.





--------------------
DD, Ret.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: I don't need one, but... [Re: DoubleD]
      #6556 - 06/01/04 02:54 AM

DD

If it is a concern a new $10000 rifle will lose half of it's value when you buy it. A used English gun will be worth more than you pay for it. (Assuming you didn't get carried away and buy it from H&H. )

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: I don't need one, but... [Re: mickey]
      #6560 - 06/01/04 07:23 AM

In reply to:

DD

If it is a concern a new $10000 rifle will lose half of it's value when you buy it. A used English gun will be worth more than you pay for it. (Assuming you didn't get carried away and buy it from H&H. )




DoubleD, this last statement by Micky is as true as the sunrise, except the part about looseing 1/2 it's value. That is a little severe. Depending on the brand and quality level for that brand, it could loose that much, but in most of the brands it will be little more than 15%. Something like a Baikil will likely loose 1/2, but I think that is a no brainer even to the unschooled. I would, however like to know where I can buy a new used $10k double rifle for $5K!

Let me clear up something here! My origenal statement, to Holmes, was in response to a question about buying a NEW 375 H&H FL Double Rifle,in the $10,000 price range, and had nothing to do with used Brittish rifles. My opinion is still the same, the Searcy is the only double made today in that price range, that is made to fit the buyer.

If buying a KIA automobile, does anyone here think you will get the ride, and handleing of a top of the line Lexus? I think not! The B. Searcy is certainly as strong as any 100 year old Britt, and if you don't know what you are doing, the Britt can end up costing a lot of money, if you buy a rifle with hidden flaws, you weren't aware of. In that case, the Britt rifle will loose a lot more than 1/2 it's value when you try to get rid of it. You can ask nobody, I know, who will know any more about Brittish double rifles then 400 NITRO EXPRESS. 400 is a friend of mine, and he is the man I go to when I don't know something. That said, he is a bit of a Britt snobb, but he a has a right to be, because he knows of what he speaks in that area, or infact on double rifles in general. He will tell you, himself, he deffinetly has a bias where Brittish doubles are concerened.
Additionally, I will say if Holmes had someone like Mark (400)around to guide him in his search, then the only thing to consider would be a name Brittish double rifle.

Since it is a new rifle you want, the britts are out of that $10K price range, and even the new,non Britt ones are limited in number, especially chambered for 375 H&H FL,, and the fact that you live in the USA, my origenal opinion still stands. If you lived in OZ, or Europe, then I'd be looking at the Heym, in a new rifle.

If it fits you, and shoots where you point it, with both barrels, chambered for 375 H&H FL, and all you have to spend is $10K, and you want a new rifle, that the maker is still alive, and will warantee his product, then the Searcy PH is the only choice, for a USA citizen!

I collect Westley Richards doubles, and so I'm a lover of Brittish rifles as well, but I also can see the value in some of the other makers. In fact, I find German rifles to regulate better, in many cases, than the Britts! I bought a Westley Richards 500/450 for only $2100 USD, in the makers case, with loading dies, 40 rounds of brass, 30 rounds of loaded ammo, a load recipe, for a regulateing load and a letter from WR as to it's history. This rifle had auto selective ejectors, hammerless, auto, barred safety, rose and scroll engraveing, leather covered recoil pad. The man who had it was a collector of military junk. He bought it in an estate sale,along with some war souvenirs, and didn't know what he had. Here is the catch, for the un-schooled buyer,normally, a $2100 USD double rifle is something to be avoided like the plague, but if you know what you are looking at, the owner didn't,in this case, it can be a fine investment. So what I'm saying by all this is, if you don't know, and you don't know anyone, who does know, your best bet is to buy something NEW, especially if you only have $10K to spend! You can't get the Krieghoff,Chapuis, or the Merkel, in anything larger than 9.3X74R for less than $11K, and the Merkel you can't get chambered for 375 H&H FL at all!

The discriptions are a little harsh, IMO, "BRICK WITH BROOM HANDLES", INDEED!

Again, if $10K is the limit, and you don't know what you need to know, to buy a used Britt, the B. Searcy is the only whore in town!

You do have one thing in your favor! You say you have four years before you buy! This is time enough for you to learn a great deal, if you apply yourself, by then you just MAY find a Brittish double rifle, worth haveing, for $10K. If not, I'd buy New! Too bad you weren't ready to buy the other day when Ray put his 450/400 3 1/4" up for $10K! It wasn't your 375 H&H FL, but it was a rifle you wouldn't have had to worry about! He sold it because he bought a NEW B. Searcy PH 470 NE, that shoots 2" composite groups @ 50 yds!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1



Extra information
0 registered and 37 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:   

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 5249

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved